Bye Bye Budda

[Stout]

That's not a reason to throw money at a position that's of lesser importance. The Cardinals are teaching the point where they can start building the roster the right way. Throw big money at Christian Wilkins or Chris Jones instead of Budda Baker.

As long as it's short-term money, I don't mind keeping BB. We have so little talent on defense I don't like the idea of getting rid of what little there is, and short-term money won't hinder us, as long as it doesn't break the bank.

 

[BritCard]

As long as it's short-term money, I don't mind keeping BB. We have so little talent on defense I don't like the idea of getting rid of what little there is, and short-term money won't hinder us, as long as it doesn't break the bank.

We have little talent on defense because we have too much money tied up in none premium positions. We could have a better defense without $18m tied up in, what has honestly been, and average safety for a while now. He hasn't been that good since 2021.

As someone said yesterday, Byard has 20 more interceptions in 1 more season played.

Assuming all safeties are graded to the same standards, and there is no reason to think not, Budda's highest ever career PFF grade is 75.3. Byards is 90.2.

Byard has 5 of his 7 full seasons in the league with a PFF grade greater than Budda's best ever.

My point being, and it's not the first time I've said this, I think this fan base over rates Budda's talent because he's generally been the best players on a bad defense his whole time here. I think you put him on the Bills or the Steelers and he's considered a good but not outstanding player.

There ain't nobody here would ever say "We must get Kevin Byard for $18m. He's a difference maker at safety". When he is probably a difference maker at safety. Yet somehow we need Budda?

It's an awful contract.

 

[Stout]

Watt was able to give us quality performance into his 30's, and had a worse injury background. Sign Jones to a big 3 year deal or 4 year with big money in the first 3. He's proven to be one of the best defensive players in football.

Watt's not a great example because his injuries with us severely hampered his usefulness.

 

[Stout]

We have little talent on defense because we have too much money tied up in none premium positions. We could have a better defense without $18m tied up in, what has honestly been, and average safety for a while now. He hasn't been that good since 2021.

As someone said yesterday, Byard has 20 more interceptions in 1 more season played.

Assuming all safeties are graded to the same standards, and there is no reason to think not, Budda's highest ever career PFF grade is 75.3. Byards is 90.2.

Byard has 5 of his 7 full seasons in the league with a PFF grade greater than Budda's best ever.

My point being, and it's not the first time I've said this, I think this fan base over rates Budda's talent because he's generally been the best players on a bad defense his whole time here. I think you put him on the Bills or the Steelers and he's considered a good but not outstanding player.

There ain't nobody here would ever say "We must get Kevin Byard for $18m. He's a difference maker at safety". When he is probably a difference maker at safety. Yet somehow we need Budda?

It's an awful contract.

Except we're not going on a FA spending frenzy to the point of making that much difference on D. We have cap space, but Monti's FA reticence last offseason left us with so, so many holes heading into next year. Saving more cap space isn't going to stock our D. Cap Space isn't playing for our team next year. We already have plenty of cap space to play with.

 

[BritCard]

Except we're not going on a FA spending frenzy to the point of making that much difference on D. We have cap space, but Monti's FA reticence last offseason left us with so, so many holes heading into next year. Saving more cap space isn't going to stock our D. Cap Space isn't playing for our team next year. We already have plenty of cap space to play with.

Even if we don't use it next year it can be valuable rollover for the year after. I also don't understand your idea that because we didn't do much in FA this year it limits what we do next year. If you have $20 you don;t have to split it over two trips to the store, you can just spend it all in one go.

We will have about $65m in useable cap space.

Looking at the roster we are ok for depth, we have 40 guys signed next year. I expect they will bring guys like Ledbetter and Collier back for depth. What we are missing is top end talent.

Guys that should be on their radar are guys like Christian Wilkins, Chris Jones, Danielle Hunter, Mike Evans, DJ Reader, Za'Darius Smith, Saquon, Fletcher Cox, Chase Young, Montez Sweat, Rashan Gary, Javon Kinlaw, Brian Burns, Calvin Ridley, Tee Higgins, Mike Pittman etc etc etc

$65m isn't a lot when trying to bring in guys at this level.

 

[kerouac9]

Even if we don't use it next year it can be valuable rollover for the year after. I also don't understand your idea that because we didn't do much in FA this year it limits what we do next year. If you have $20 you don;t have to split it over two trips to the store, you can just spend it all in one go.

We will have about $65m in useable cap space.

Looking at the roster we are ok for depth, we have 40 guys signed next year. I expect they will bring guys like Ledbetter and Collier back for depth. What we are missing is top end talent.

Guys that should be on their radar are guys like Christian Wilkins, Chris Jones, Danielle Hunter, Mike Evans, DJ Reader, Za'Darius Smith, Saquon, Fletcher Cox, Chase Young, Montez Sweat, Rashan Gary, Javon Kinlaw, Brian Burns, Calvin Ridley, Tee Higgins, Mike Pittman etc etc etc

$65m isn't a lot when trying to bring in guys at this level.

I'd be surprised if half those dudes reach the open market when all is said and done. I have no interest in bringing in free agents over 30/third-contract guys who are unlikely to outperform their contracts.

I expect we'll bring in two pricey free agents and fill out the rest of the roster with 1Y/$1M types. For as excited as people were about the reward of this year's pain in terms of cap flexibility down the road, that's a pretty mid result.

 

[Krangodnzr]

As long as it's short-term money, I don't mind keeping BB. We have so little talent on defense I don't like the idea of getting rid of what little there is, and short-term money won't hinder us, as long as it doesn't break the bank.

Honestly though, Budda's on the field impact isnt much greater than a replacement player.

Cap decisions have long term impacts. I'd rather see the Cardinals start making smart decisions.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'd be surprised if half those dudes reach the open market when all is said and done. I have no interest in bringing in free agents over 30/third-contract guys who are unlikely to outperform their contracts.

I expect we'll bring in two pricey free agents and fill out the rest of the roster with 1Y/$1M types. For as excited as people were about the reward of this year's pain in terms of cap flexibility down the road, that's a pretty mid result.

This is exactly what I want to see.

Draft MHJ and Newton, sign Wilkins to play next to him and fill out the roster with cheaper vets.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Watt's not a great example because his injuries with us severely hampered his usefulness.

Yeah - Jones doesn't miss games. Watt still was incredibly productive when healthy and transformed our D. Jones seems like less of a risk.

 

[kerouac9]

This is exactly what I want to see.

Draft MHJ and Newton, sign Wilkins to play next to him and fill out the roster with cheaper vets.

I should also caveat that while this is the most likely scenario, the large impact/low probability scenario is that the front office decides to move on from Kyler, which takes up nearly all the open cap space in 2023, and we go into 2024 with no Holllywood and having to dump Ertz, Conner, Budda, and maybe The Captain to fill out a roster around our rookie QB.

The rookie QB won't be in a terrible position even with that because we'll likely pair him with another OL with the second top pick and draft an interior OL with one of the second-day picks. It's not ideal, but there's hope for the future in that scenario.

I'd also urge caution in falling in love with MHJ in October; it's possible we'll be in a position to draft him, but I think that's a 50/50 proposition. Maybe worse.

 

[BritCard]

I'd also urge caution in falling in love with MHJ in October; it's possible we'll be in a position to draft him, but I think that's a 50/50 proposition. Maybe worse.

I'm also not sure this is a "Draft a WR top 10" front office. If it is it's a different kind of front office than I thought it was.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm also not sure this is a "Draft a WR top 10" front office. If it is it's a different kind of front office than I thought it was.

I dunno. The scouts I listen to are drooling over MHJ, and he's probably less of a projection than your average WR prospect -- due to both pedigree and the program he's coming out from.

I consider him a high-floor, high-ceiling prospect.

Our Assistant GM drafted a WR high who'd just suffered an ACL injury. Our GM was part of a front office who traded away A.J. Brown to take Treylon Burks. Petzing also comes from a fairly WR-forward offensive tradition.

 

[PDXChris]

I dunno. The scouts I listen to are drooling over MHJ, and he's probably less of a projection than your average WR prospect -- due to both pedigree and the program he's coming out from.

I consider him a high-floor, high-ceiling prospect.

Our Assistant GM drafted a WR high who'd just suffered an ACL injury. Our GM was part of a front office who traded away A.J. Brown to take Treylon Burks. Petzing also comes from a fairly WR-forward offensive tradition.

Added in that MHJ is supposed to be a transcendent type of player and you don't pass on one of those because of the position he plays aside from a couple of spots, especially when it's a position of need. The last time we picked a transcendent type of player at #3 who was a WR, it worked out.

If Denver ends up with the #3 or #4 and we have the #2 as we do today, do they give up a couple of picks to swap to take Maye if other teams call AZ? 3rd this year and 2nd next year? I don't see Chicago taking a WR.

Plus, his Dad was loyal to Indy, so you hope Jr. learned from dad. We are being projected to pick him at #2.

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[ASUCHRIS]

Added in that MHJ is supposed to be a transcendent type of player and you don't pass on one of those because of the position he plays aside from a couple of spots, especially when it's a position of need. The last time we picked a transcendent type of player at #3 who was a WR, it worked out.

If Denver ends up with the #3 or #4 and we have the #2 as we do today, do they give up a couple of picks to swap to take Maye if other teams call AZ? 3rd this year and 2nd next year? I don't see Chicago taking a WR.

Plus, his Das was loyal to Indy, so you hope Jr. learned from dad. We are being projected to pick him at #2.

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He seems about as sure a thing as you can get at WR.

 

[daves]

I'm also not sure this is a "Draft a WR top 10" front office.

I dunno. The scouts I listen to are drooling over MHJ, and he's probably less of a projection than your average WR prospect

If Denver ends up with the #3 or #4 and we have the #2 as we do today, do they give up a couple of picks to swap to take Maye if other teams call AZ?

Wrong thread?

Also, mods: can we change the thread title? We have a thread titled "Buh bye Wallace" because he was cut. This one implies Baker is gone, too. "Speculation over Baker's future" or some such would be better.

 

[kerouac9]

Wrong thread?

Also, mods: can we change the thread title? We have a thread titled "Buh bye Wallace" because he was cut. This one implies Baker is gone, too. "Speculation over Baker's future" or some such would be better.

All threads devolve into draft talk or Kyler talk.

 

[TheCardFan]

Added in that MHJ is supposed to be a transcendent type of player

Oh jeez.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm also not sure this is a "Draft a WR top 10" front office. If it is it's a different kind of front office than I thought it was.

I think they are a draft safe/impactful players which should put them in the realm of a 1st round WR. I don't believe they would pass on MHJ for Fashanu. I am not sure there is another WR I feel they would take over Fashanu or Alt.

 

[kerouac9]

I think they are a draft safe/impactful players which should put them in the realm of a 1st round WR. I don't believe they would pass on MHJ for Fashanu. I am not sure there is another WR I feel they would take over Fashanu or Alt.

I’m feeling more and more that if you draft enough B- prospects some of them will reveal themselves to be A-grade players. Doesn’t mean you settle for lesser prospects; it means you don’t stick your neck out for a projection.

 

[SunsTzu]

Wrong thread?

Also, mods: can we change the thread title? We have a thread titled "Buh bye Wallace" because he was cut. This one implies Baker is gone, too. "Speculation over Baker's future" or some such would be better.

Yeah, only reason I keep checking in is because when I see activity in the thread I think a move has been made.

 

[oaken1]

I think they are a draft safe/impactful players which should put them in the realm of a 1st round WR. I don't believe they would pass on MHJ for Fashanu. I am not sure there is another WR I feel they would take over Fashanu or Alt.

Was thinking yesterday if we get pick 2... Monti is more likely to try and trade back within the top 5... likely sacrificing MHJ, and picking Fashanu... I hate it but I don't hate it... this draft is flush with #1 WR's and we can likely get one at pick 34

 

[Krangodnzr]

I’m feeling more and more that if you draft enough B- prospects some of them will reveal themselves to be A-grade players. Doesn’t mean you settle for lesser prospects; it means you don’t stick your neck out for a projection.

That's exactly what Keim did. Swiss Army Knife LB, non-power 5 LB, Robert Nkemdiche, Done Bucannon.

I think he goes Fashanu/Alt if he just misses out on MHJ. Rome Odunze and Keon Coleman are pretty good receivers that might be available with the Texans pick.

 

[TheCardFan]

I think we will have some flexibility to trade down a bit, especially at #2 and IF Kyler is our franchise QB.

We could trade down and still get guys like Alt and Newton with our first 2 picks.

 

[kerouac9]

That's exactly what Keim did. Swiss Army Knife LB, non-power 5 LB, Robert Nkemdiche, Done Bucannon.

I think he goes Fashanu/Alt if he just misses out on MHJ. Rome Odunze and Keon Coleman are pretty good receivers that might be available with the Texans pick.

That's fair. To draft a low-priority position high, they have to project extremely high. Drafting a B- off-ball linebacker in the first doesn't make sense, because there are always that quality of prospect available.

That guy's median projection has to be multiple Pro Bowler, and that wasn't the case with Collins for sure.

 

[kerouac9]

Was thinking yesterday if we get pick 2... Monti is more likely to try and trade back within the top 5... likely sacrificing MHJ, and picking Fashanu... I hate it but I don't hate it... this draft is flush with #1 WR's and we can likely get one at pick 34

I agree that it's more likely Monti trades out of the high pick than the low one.