Bye Bye Budda

[Stout]

It is probably a good idea to get away from the "generational talent" term. It is silly when you look at the history of the draft. Yes, Monti felt he could wait on EDGE vs OT which was correct if you look at how the draft played out. It could be argued that he may do the same in future drafts.

Even if it was correct, he either should have passed on edge or taken a different player.

 

[kerouac9]

While I get this, I also don't see a good reason to not have him play out his contract unless they need to money for something I can't see.

I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a pretty bad argument. I'll almost always call out a "heart and soul" argument on a guy who's being paid 1.3x what he should because of factors that just don't show up on the stat sheet/on the field.

The football argument for paying Budda Baker a little over $14 million next season is really tough to make. He's the only moveable piece preventing you from investing over $30 million in starting safeties. I think that money could effectively be spread around to improve the DL for greater impact.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Deja vu all over again

Should we keep him should we trade him

Doesn't really matter what we want to do - because we already paid him more than other teams are willing to

aka Deandre Hopkins

I don't think anybody will come in with a good offer before the deadline

I also think the teams that are interested will end up drafting a safety or find a cheaper one - because let's face it - the man is great at what he does but he's not sacking fools or picking off the ball

Look - I know you didn't want to hear this - especially from ASFN's most cheerful optimistic poster - but we will probably end up releasing Budda - with his blessing

We will never get a 3rd rounder for Budda - seriously doubt we get a 4th - maybe possibly a 5th?

 

[Krangodnzr]

It is probably a good idea to get away from the "generational talent" term. It is silly when you look at the history of the draft. Yes, Monti felt he could wait on EDGE vs OT which was correct if you look at how the draft played out. It could be argued that he may do the same in future drafts.

What's funny is that Ojulari now has matched Anderson's sack total for the year.

 

[DVontel]

9 EDGE players were drafted in the top 42 picks.5 OTs in that same range. I feel it is easy to say that the top of the EDGE class was perceived to be deeper than the top of the OT class.

It was deeper in terms of depth. That doesn’t mean it’s deeper in terms of top-end talent. I believe this class is way deeper in terms of top-end talent compared to last year’s class.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a pretty bad argument. I'll almost always call out a "heart and soul" argument on a guy who's being paid 1.3x what he should because of factors that just don't show up on the stat sheet/on the field.

The football argument for paying Budda Baker a little over $14 million next season is really tough to make. He's the only moveable piece preventing you from investing over $30 million in starting safeties. I think that money could effectively be spread around to improve the DL for greater impact.

It probably comes down to the definition of movable and the options.

Trading Budda for some sort of top 64 draft compensation would be the best move.

IMO, letting him play out his deal is the second best option.

I am torn which would be better/worse between trading him for a late pick or giving him a 2 year extension.

Worst move is cutting him IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

It was deeper in terms of depth. That doesn’t mean it’s deeper in terms of top-end talent. I believe this class is way deeper in terms of top-end talent compared to last year’s class.

I agree.

 

[Chopper0080]

What's funny is that Ojulari now has matched Anderson's sack total for the year.

The comment was less about the players and more about the willingness to move off the perceived top player at the position group.

 

[oaken1]

The comment was less about the players and more about the willingness to move off the perceived top player at the position group.

Although I cringe at the time I tend to agree with moving off the perceived top end talent in most cases.
Nearly every draft we see guys who were thought to be the best at their position while some third rounder or guy drafted at 28 has a HoF type early career.
Tons of grading scales, dozens of metrics, and thousands of evaluators....and we still ain't privvy to conversations behind closed doors.
Often enough I think those "best at their position" guys go from a college system that let them flourish or even freelance to trying to play within the confines of a controlled pro system and their traits just don't fit.
So, getting a guy in the third that should fir your system can be a better move than getting a top 10 guy that just doesn't. Athleticism is great but it only goes so far.

 

[Chopper0080]

Although I cringe at the time I tend to agree with moving off the perceived top end talent in most cases.
Nearly every draft we see guys who were thought to be the best at their position while some third rounder or guy drafted at 28 has a HoF type early career.
Tons of grading scales, dozens of metrics, and thousands of evaluators....and we still ain't privvy to conversations behind closed doors.
Often enough I think those "best at their position" guys go from a college system that let them flourish or even freelance to trying to play within the confines of a controlled pro system and their traits just don't fit.
So, getting a guy in the third that should fir your system can be a better move than getting a top 10 guy that just doesn't. Athleticism is great but it only goes so far.

I am curious what the ideal edge looks like for Monti, Gannon and Rallis. Obviously it didn't seem to be Anderson.

 

[oaken1]

I am curious what the ideal edge looks like for Monti, Gannon and Rallis. Obviously it didn't seem to be Anderson.

Me too... but maybe protecting kyler was just higher on the priority list.

 

[Chopper0080]

Me too... but maybe protecting kyler was just higher on the priority list.

Maybe.

 

[BritCard]

Give me Budda. I see him as the heart and soul of our defensive backfield. And maybe of our entire defense. He plays hard on every play.

I prefer interceptions, forced fumbles and big game winning plays to heart and soul.

Ain't no heart and soul on the box score.

 

[BritCard]

It probably comes down to the definition of movable and the options.

Trading Budda for some sort of top 64 draft compensation would be the best move.

IMO, letting him play out his deal is the second best option.

I am torn which would be better/worse between trading him for a late pick or giving him a 2 year extension.

Worst move is cutting him IMO.

If he plays out his deal we get nothing for him. He signs elsewhere for a 5th round comp and we wipe it out with some fringe edge depth in FA in 2025.

 

[CardNots]

I prefer interceptions, forced fumbles and big game winning plays to heart and soul.

Ain't no heart and soul on the box score.

Being run down by a WR doesn’t meet your standards?

 

[Chopper0080]

If he plays out his deal we get nothing for him. He signs elsewhere for a 5th round comp and we wipe it out with some fringe edge depth in FA in 2025.

That doesn't bother me. After months of being told a 5th round pick isn't a meaningful asset, I would rather just take one year of quality football play that is lacking at several other positions.

 

[Chopper0080]

Beginning in 2024 competent and quality football players on short term deals are fine and more valuable than late round picks.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I prefer interceptions, forced fumbles and big game winning plays to heart and soul.

Ain't no heart and soul on the box score.

I don't get it. You must be watching a different game than me.

Baker has only been:
2017 Voted to the All Rookie Team
2017 Pro Bowler
2017 First Team All Pro
2019 Pro Bowler
2020 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#97)
2020 Pro Bowler
2020 First Team All Pro
2021 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#19)
2021 Pro Bowler
2022 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#67)
2022 Pro Bowler
2023 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#73)

 

[Garthshort]

I prefer interceptions, forced fumbles and big game winning plays to heart and soul.

Ain't no heart and soul on the box score.

Think of it, that he makes his teammates better. They play with greater effort.

 

[Chopper0080]

At some point you have to prioritize winning games and you need good players to win games. There is a world between a 4 year extension at 17 mil per year and trading him for a 5th round pick.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't get it. You must be watching a different game than me.

Baker has only been:
2017 Voted to the All Rookie Team
2017 Pro Bowler
2017 First Team All Pro
2019 Pro Bowler
2020 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#97)
2020 Pro Bowler
2020 First Team All Pro
2021 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#19)
2021 Pro Bowler
2022 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#67)
2022 Pro Bowler
2023 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#73)

He'll consistently give you about 100 tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT, and 1 forced fumble.

He's a very good box safety and decent in coverage. He just doesn't make enough plays to justify paying him as one of the best safeties in the NFL. The age/size thing has to factor into the equation as well.

 

[Chopper0080]

He'll consistently give you about 100 tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT, and 1 forced fumble.

He's a very good box safety and decent in coverage. He just doesn't make enough plays to justify paying him as one of the best safeties in the NFL. The age/size thing has to factor into the equation as well.

Budda will be 28 next year. Age only matters if you think your only option is to give him a 3+ year extension.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Budda will be 28 next year. Age only matters if you think your only option is to give him a 3+ year extension.

Higher money shorter term seems like a win win for both sides. I like Thompson/other young guys we have at S.

 

[BritCard]

I don't get it. You must be watching a different game than me.

Baker has only been:
2017 Voted to the All Rookie Team
2017 Pro Bowler
2017 First Team All Pro
2019 Pro Bowler
2020 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#97)
2020 Pro Bowler
2020 First Team All Pro
2021 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#19)
2021 Pro Bowler
2022 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#67)
2022 Pro Bowler
2023 Voted to the NFL Top 100 by his Peers (#73)

I mean, it shows him consistently dropping in NFL top 100 rankings 2021.

But really all these things are worthless accolades. Pro Bowls are no measure of talent. They are indicators of name recognition. You can have one great year and get 4 Pro Bowls out of it. Bad players make the Pro Bowl every year and great players miss it. Same with the NFL top 100.

He was great in 2020, he was good in 2021. He was average last year and this year so far. I don't want to pay $18.25m next year for an average safety. I don't want to pay that much for the best safety in the league. It's the defensive equivalent of paying $16m for a running back.

 

[Chopper0080]

I mean, it shows him consistently dropping in NFL top 100 rankings 2021.

But really all these things are worthless accolades. Pro Bowls are no measure of talent. They are indicators of name recognition. You can have one great year and get 4 Pro Bowls out of it. Bad players make the Pro Bowl every year and great players miss it. Same with the NFL top 100.

He was great in 2020, he was good in 2021. He was average last year and this year so far. I don't want to pay $18.25m next year for an average safety. I don't want to pay that much for the best safety in the league. It's the defensive equivalent of paying $16m for a running back.

What is the benefit of cutting Baker to add worse players on an already bad defense?