Can McCown have a Drew Brees type year??

[Stout]

Stats, stats, stats. The fact remains that the Cards played almost .500 ball with McCown in charge and if I'm not mistaken, it's wins that count. Maybe Josh didn't have the best year, but it wasn't from lack of trying and he did manage to win almost as many games as he lost. If you are going to beat him up for the loses, you have to give him credit for the wins.

If you think about it, we should have won both SF games, but the D didn't hold up. That would have put McCown's W/L record at 8 and 5. Not bad for a first year starter.

Josh is still on this team and may end up having to start this year. If this is the kind of support he's going to get, it'll make it that much tougher for him.

In those games McCown started that the team won, the team did so for the most part in SPITE of McCown, not BECAUSE of McCown. He played like crap for most of those wins, and just because the team happened to win, doesn't mean he's the reason.

 

[Evil Ash]

No, People acually thought Drew Breese was gonna be a good NFL QB, he had the skills, thats why SD drafted him in the 1st. McCown was no John Elway coming out of Texas Christian or Sam Houston where-ever we got him from. Josh's best days are behind him. It was just another wasted pick by Mac, Josh projected to be a late 5th rounder but Mac had to pick him in the third.

Oh dear God why can't this discussion ever go away?!

1) Brees was a 2nd rounder

2) We don't know how well Josh can do under an improved system. I mean seriously was our offense so good that it was entirely his fault that everything went wrong in it. Last I checked this was a TEAM sport so if you are going to be critical of one player why not be critical of them all? Seriously.

We had an offense that had no rushing threat, our Wrs had trouble getting seperation, our Oline was in shambles the first part of the season, we asked our TE to block Pro Bowl DEs, .... hell I can keep going for hours. It wasn't all the fault of one guy, if you think it was pull your head out of your ass.

He's a young QB that may have learned under his first true year under center (I only count playing games not just sitting on the sideline holding a clipboard). Then again he may not, lets see how he does at camp before we really say anything (oh sorry I'm using common sense again).

However this whole conversation boils down to this ... whether you like Josh or not, your opinion means precisely DICK. The only thing that matters is how our FO and Coach Green feel about and with them giving the middle tender that says that they believe he might have a future in this league. If you don't like it well then thats too damn bad

I just wish we can stop talking about this damn position until training camp because all these threads do is get into name calling and the same regurgitated points are brought up over and over again without the conversation going anywhere.

 

[GreenCard]

Hey,watch that common sense stuff.

 

[BigRedMO]

40 year fan by your logic then every single player from last years team should be playing again. If you dont consider a players performance as an individual and only based on team results they should all be playing too. Didn't they contribute too?


Evil Ash your defense of Mccown sounds very similar to defense of Plummer. He dealt with those same problems too. By the way I would rather have Plummer than Mccown. This team with the exception of '98 has had no running game in ages. The problems you mention have no bearing on his inability to identify the open reciever down field and get the ball there prior to the DB closing the gap. There were numerous examples of Mccown having time to throw and having open receivers with him being to slow to process that info and get the ball there. The team would not have signed Warner had they not intended him to start. If Warner shows up to camp and does not get hurt he is the starter opening day. That will be the extent of the competition for the job. Bidwill did not spend his money on him for Warner to sit. Bidwill signed Warner because that was what Green wanted.

This is a family board. Could we plaese not have the vulgar language? My kids read this stuff too. You can make your point as well without it.

 

[CardinalLaw]

Oh dear God why can't this discussion ever go away?!

1) Brees was a 2nd rounder

2) We don't know how well Josh can do under an improved system. I mean seriously was our offense so good that it was entirely his fault that everything went wrong in it. Last I checked this was a TEAM sport so if you are going to be critical of one player why not be critical of them all? Seriously.

We had an offense that had no rushing threat, our Wrs had trouble getting seperation, our Oline was in shambles the first part of the season, we asked our TE to block Pro Bowl DEs, .... hell I can keep going for hours. It wasn't all the fault of one guy, if you think it was pull your head out of your ass.

He's a young QB that may have learned under his first true year under center (I only count playing games not just sitting on the sideline holding a clipboard). Then again he may not, lets see how he does at camp before we really say anything (oh sorry I'm using common sense again).

However this whole conversation boils down to this ... whether you like Josh or not, your opinion means precisely DICK. The only thing that matters is how our FO and Coach Green feel about and with them giving the middle tender that says that they believe he might have a future in this league. If you don't like it well then thats too damn bad

I just wish we can stop talking about this damn position until training camp because all these threads do is get into name calling and the same regurgitated points are brought up over and over again without the conversation going anywhere.

Oh well, sorry for expecting something from someone that had 3 years of being a backup and learning. Only to have rookies in the NFL come in and have better years. I think Josh had a year to prove what he had, whats he need now 3 more years. Seriously, I was on the Josh bandwaogn before and would like nothing more then to have a reason to be on there again . But having a QB that only throws a Touchdown in 6 different games in a year is pathetic. He might have the heart of a champion, but unfortunetly only proved he had the skills of a third string backup.

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Also during the NFL Europe game today Green said he thinks that Kurt Warner still has a lot left, the body of a 26 year old, and the experience of a 27 year old. Sounds like someone just waiting to be benched .[/font]

 

[CardinalLaw]

Oh and 40, I support Josh everytime he's out there. Talk about supporting your players, people where chanting we want Josh in the first quarter of Jets game when Shawn King started, for not throwing a TD. Yourself most likely being one of them. While Josh goes 5 games without throwing a TD to start his season. Hows that for supporting your team.

 

[40yearfan]

40 year fan by your logic then every single player from last years team should be playing again. If you dont consider a players performance as an individual and only based on team results they should all be playing too. Didn't they contribute too?

This is a family board. Could we plaese not have the vulgar language? My kids read this stuff too. You can make your point as well without it.
.

Are you talking to me? If you see anything vulgar in my post, I wish you'd point it out.

 

[BigRedMO]

40 year I was not referring to your post in regard to the vulgarity.

 

[40yearfan]

Oh and 40, I support Josh everytime he's out there. Talk about supporting your players, people where chanting we want Josh in the first quarter of Jets game when Shawn King started, for not throwing a TD. Yourself most likely being one of them. While Josh goes 5 games without throwing a TD to start his season. Hows that for supporting your team.

CL, do you know that for a fact or are you just supposing?

It just boggles my mind how some on this board condemn any of our football players. As long as they are wearing Cardinal red, they are on my team and worthy of being defended. How can you profess to have loyalty to a team and then rip it's players to shreds. Constructive critisism is fine. Why can't we just leave it at that.

 

[Rats]

40 year I was not referring to your post in regard to the vulgarity.

This entire thread is vulgar and has been harped on for to long. I gave up on this topic back in January....I wish others would.

 

[Evil Ash]

Oh well, sorry for expecting something from someone that had 3 years of being a backup and learning. Only to have rookies in the NFL come in and have better years. I think Josh had a year to prove what he had, whats he need now 3 more years.

Geez people act like I'm saying give the guy the starting job. I'm not. Quit trying to put words into my mouth.

Yes Big Ben was better of course HE WAS ON A BETTER TEAM. Why is it people seem to forget that they were 5-1 before he played a damn down?

Will Josh do well? Hell I don't know and those that claim they do know are full of crap. We don't know whats going to happen. In case no one else has noticed the majority of the NFL QBs got better with their second team. There is no magic formula folks. For every Peyton Manning there is a Jake Delhomme. If it were that simple to find a franchise QB a lot less coaches and GMs would be fired on a yearly basis.

Seriously, I was on the Josh bandwaogn before and would like nothing more then to have a reason to be on there again . But having a QB that only throws a Touchdown in 6 different games in a year is pathetic. He might have the heart of a champion, but unfortunetly only proved he had the skills of a third string backup.

Cute but again your blaming the entirety of the ineptitude on one guy. If thats the case doesn't it seem odd to you that our WR and Oline coaches as well as the OC were fired during the same offseason? Maybe there's more to it than just one guy.

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Also during the NFL Europe game today Green said he thinks that Kurt Warner still has a lot left, the body of a 26 year old, and the experience of a 27 year old. Sounds like someone just waiting to be benched .[/font]

Good for him. That doesn't mean the career of Josh is shot either. You're reading stuff that isn't there

 

[BigRedMO]

The arguement used by many against drafting a "franchise" Qb was that this is a win it now league unlike the old days when you could spare the time to develop a player who is slow to develop. It seems to me that Mccown has had his opportunity and did not take advantage of it. So how much time do we give him to develop in this win it now league?

 

[Evil Ash]

The arguement used by many against drafting a "franchise" Qb was that this is a win it now league unlike the old days when you could spare the time to develop a player who is slow to develop. It seems to me that Mccown has had his opportunity and did not take advantage of it. So how much time do we give him to develop in this win it now league?

This year. If he shows signs of improvement even being under Warner in the depth department, you keep him. If he stays about the same or gets worse you let him go.

Thats just in terms of his Cardinal career besides that I really can't tell you.

Once again for every Peyton Manning (on original team and did well since start) there is a Jake Delhomme (not on 1st team and it took seven years in the league before he started doing well). He might become successful elsewhere, we just don't know.

 

[conraddobler]

Some people act like you can just come in and light it up on a bad team.

Granted there are a few QB's who right out of the box look great. I don't see a ton of those on teams that are bad but it happens.

When you evaluate a QB it helps to listen to former QB's when they say it takes at least 2 years to understand what the heck is going on.

Last year was Josh's third year I think so people can rightly wonder about him getting it I guess and that's the rub.

Yet with all that I can't help but say that with the tons of pressure and the new staff and all you kinda have to say this year is his last chance and that he should at least get this year to show off if he's worth it or not simply because who knows what the last staff did or did not teach him.

Last year he screwed up a lot but he also got experience. He seemed to get better at some things and regress on others but when you break it down, playing on a bad team with few weapons that's about par for the course.

It's also invaluable to have the offseason to watch your tape, heal up and get your head on straight.

I know that if our line isn't a ton better than last year, he's gonna be playing for two reasons.

A. Kurt will probably get killed.
B. He's mobile and Kurt most definitely is not.


I think this quick release thing that is the sort of universal broom people sweep the whole Kurt is not mobile and our line is a work in progress issue under the rug with is pretty much a pipe dream.

What did he do on the Giants that ticked everone off? He held the ball too long.

What happens when your WR's aren't real fast? Your QB holds the ball too long and whap, it's Josh time like it or not while Kurt figures out if he's still in Iowa or not.

 

[BigRedMO]

I remember the year Hart was benched for Lomax. I was a big time Hart fan. He was the only Cardinal QB I had ever known. So I did not jump on the Lomax bandwagon. That said Lomax came in and played for a sub 500 team and showed flashes of the great potential he developed into. He was NFC rookie of the year. Plummer when he was a rookie showed flashes of great QB play. Plummer has not developed into one of the top 1 or 2 QBs like I thought he would. He is a good NFL QB in my mind. He is just a little too aggresive at times. I just dont see many flashes in Mccown. At this point Lomax was one of the better starters in the NFC.

 

[40yearfan]

In those games McCown started that the team won, the team did so for the most part in SPITE of McCown, not BECAUSE of McCown. He played like crap for most of those wins, and just because the team happened to win, doesn't mean he's the reason.

And conversely, he was not responsible for the losses either, but to hear some on this board, that's exactly what happened. I personally think it's too soon to give up on Josh yet and apparently DG feels the same way or Josh would have gone down the same road LJ and Thompson did.

If Warner doesn't work out and Josh is as bad as some say he is, the only way we are going to win is to pitch a shutout at the other team. You know how likely that is.

 

[Stout]

And conversely, he was not responsible for the losses either, but to hear some on this board, that's exactly what happened. I personally think it's too soon to give up on Josh yet and apparently DG feels the same way or Josh would have gone down the same road LJ and Thompson did.

If Warner doesn't work out and Josh is as bad as some say he is, the only way we are going to win is to pitch a shutout at the other team. You know how likely that is.

Um, look again. He bears a lot of blame for some of those losses. *cough cough* Atlanta *cough*

 

[Redsz]

Green said that you can't trun the ball over in the red zone. Something to the effect of: "If I knew we would fumble the ball four times on the 20 yd line, I would of kicked a field goal on first down every time".

Ugh, that game! Four loses by four points or less. 10-6 and playoffs could have a been a reality last year.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Um, look again. He bears a lot of blame for some of those losses. *cough cough* Atlanta *cough*

Keep coughing but remember he didn't fumble the last time at the 5 yard line. He still had us in position to win the game. 3 fumbles hurt no doubt, but it was the last one that cost us a chance to win that game.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

No chance McCown starts at the begining of the season unless Warner is injured. I would not even mention McCowns name in the same breath as Drew Brees.

Really... then why did you?

 

[Stout]

Keep coughing but remember he didn't fumble the last time at the 5 yard line. He still had us in position to win the game. 3 fumbles hurt no doubt, but it was the last one that cost us a chance to win that game.

Um, no he didn't, as it was Shaun King that QBed that drive. But, hey, let's not let the facts get in the way. He fumbled the ball THREE TIMES and got yanked. You can't call him *********** because he choked BIG time.

 

[JPlay]

Oh H*** No. Brees and Rothlis were high picks who were very talented coming out of college. McCown is a no name QB, with a strong arm, good running ability and little else. No intangibles. Can't read the defense and isn't accurate. He's a great backup.

 

[CaptTurbo]

He still had us in position to win the game. .

What are you smoking? HE had nothing to do with "keeping us in the game"

That was all defense.

 

[40yearfan]

Oh H*** No. Brees and Rothlis were high picks who were very talented coming out of college. McCown is a no name QB, with a strong arm, good running ability and little else. No intangibles. Can't read the defense and isn't accurate. He's a great backup.

Oh really? Guess what? It was Drew Brees FOURTH year before he caught on and he had started 27 games before than. Last year was Josh's THIRD year and he's only started 16 games. Brees had a 67.5 QB rating his third year and Josh had a 74.1 QB rating in his third year.

What say we give Josh the same opportunity the Chargers gave Brees.

 

[CaptTurbo]

What say we give Josh the same opportunity the Chargers gave Brees.

No thank you. Brees had a live arm and some thought process. McCown has neither.