Can McCown have a Drew Brees type year??

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Threw for 32 TD's in his senior year. Not bad for a below average QB in college.

Yeah, at Sam Houston State where he had to transfer because he had been benched for turning the ball over too much at that football powerhouse known as Southern Methodist. McCown was a below average college QB, there's really no argument against this.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

All I'm saying is that it MIGHT happen. He has all the physical tools and may eventually become a damn good QB. We don't know what is going to happen. People are acting like I'm saying its an absolute certainty that he will become a damn good QB, and thats not the case at all.

Of course there's nothing that's an absolute certainty. Shaun King MIGHT go to Canada and find himself and one day become the next Steve Young. John Navarre MIGHT buck the odds and be the next great NFL QB to emerge from Ann Arbor. However the odds of these two things happening are about the same as me winning the Powerball this Wednesday.

The same goes for McCown. Yeah he MIGHT become a damn good QB someday with all his tools, but there's so much of an extensive history of him not being able to translate those tools into good quarterbacking that I'd say the chances are pretty remote.

 

[40yearfan]

Yeah, at Sam Houston State where he had to transfer because he had been benched for turning the ball over too much at that football powerhouse known as Southern Methodist. McCown was a below average college QB, there's really no argument against this.

OK. I'm sure you know a lot more about him than Dennis Green does. Amazing how he still has a job.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

OK. I'm sure you know a lot more about him than Dennis Green does. Amazing how he still has a job.

Green knows enough about McCown to bench him three times in the last year.

 

[Evil Ash]

Green knows enough about McCown to bench him three times in the last year.

and yet still give him the middle tender and have him as the top backup (and possible starter)

Logic does NOT compute

 

[BigRedMO]

By QB standards Mccown is one of the cheapest QBs signed. He is an insurance policy. If you read Jim Hanifan's book and this is coroborated in other books is that Bidwill's team being family owned without deep corporate pockets has never been able to afford the depth that other teams have had. Bidwill will sign the high dollar guy as the first string. He never has been able to afford the relativley expensive second and third string. That makes for a thin team even in years like '85 when they were expected to go to the Superbowl. Injuries decimated the thin secondary and they underperformed as a result.

Mccown fits the mold as an affordable back-up QB. He could not start anywhere else next year. I really hope he is not needed. I would be content for him to watch from the sideline and collect his money for practicing. Mccown only got his job back last year becuase Navarre got hurt. Actually the debate should be will Navarre push Warner. Based on last year Mccown is the third string.

 

[Evil Ash]

By QB standards Mccown is one of the cheapest QBs signed. He is an insurance policy. If you read Jim Hanifan's book and this is coroborated in other books is that Bidwill's team being family owned without deep corporate pockets has never been able to afford the depth that other teams have had. Bidwill will sign the high dollar guy as the first string. He never has been able to afford the relativley expensive second and third string. That makes for a thin team even in years like '85 when they were expected to go to the Superbowl. Injuries decimated the thin secondary and they underperformed as a result.

Mccown fits the mold as an affordable back-up QB. He could not start anywhere else next year. I really hope he is not needed. I would be content for him to watch from the sideline and collect his money for practicing. Mccown only got his job back last year becuase Navarre got hurt. Actually the debate should be will Navarre push Warner. Based on last year Mccown is the third string.

OMG this is just sad. Do you also post as AntSports Steve because all I'm reading here is that its all about the money.

McCown is being given another shot whether you like it or not. Our OC seems to like him, our play by play announcer said to not blame everything on him, the two cardinal reporters (Urban and Sommers) haven't put all the blame on him, and head coach said he improved and is getting a chance for the starting job. But what the hell do they know, right?

This is why I hate "discussions" like this because there is no discussion, its a ton of people who have made their mind up before the season or training camp even began. Sorry I find it pathetic

 

[BigRedMO]

Sounds to me like your mind is made up as much as mine is. I dont feel the need to personalize these discussions.

Have you ever heard the idea that if one person criticizes another person on a personal or behavior basis they really are commenting about their own personality or behavior? I suggest you try observing that. There was J Edgar Hoover who investigated homosexuals and by all reports was one himself. Rush Limbaugh wants drug abusers sent to prison but abuses drugs. William Bennet preaches morality then gambles millions. Jimmy Swaggert and that guy fron the PTL club commiting adultry. That gay mayor in the NW who hated homosexuals but was a closet homosexual himself. Strom Thurmond was the ultimate rascist yet he was doing the black maid and had kids by her. It really is interesting. Look out for the people who are the loudest to criticize others personal behavior. I have no idea who you are referring to as that other poster but do you really think money does not matter in football? I suggest you read Hanifan's book or some of the other books about the Cardinals. You cant pay the players with monopoly money. I wish you could then I could be an owner.

If Mccown was a decent starter he would be a steal at his salary. So no harm in signing him. Their have been miracles before and maybe there will be devine intervention on the behalf of Mccown and he will reach some clue about how to play.

 

[Pariah]

This is why I hate "discussions" like this because there is no discussion, its a ton of people who have made their mind up before the season or training camp even began. Sorry I find it pathetic

Yeah, my mind is made up before THIS YEAR'S training camp begins because I saw enough of him last year. It's not like we've never seen this kid play.

He got the middle tender because he's a decent backup...and we all know that that's very, very important in today's NFL. Just ask Chicago...heck, just ask Green.

 

[Evil Ash]

Sounds to me like your mind is made up as much as mine is. I dont feel the need to personalize these discussions.

Have you ever heard the idea that if one person criticizes another person on a personal or behavior basis they really are commenting about their own personality or behavior? I suggest you try observing that. There was J Edgar Hoover who investigated homosexuals and by all reports was one himself. Rush Limbaugh wants drug abusers sent to prison but abuses drugs. William Bennet preaches morality then gambles millions. Jimmy Swaggert and that guy fron the PTL club commiting adultry. That gay mayor in the NW who hated homosexuals but was a closet homosexual himself. It really is interesting. I have no idea who you are referring to as that other poster but do you really think money does not matter in football? I suggest you read Hanifan's book or some of the other books about the Cardinals. You cant pay the players with monoploy money. I wish you could then I could be an owner.

1) I didn't make it personal. I was talking about this overdone topic as a whole. No matter whose side your on, we'll have a "discussion" that goes absolutely nowhere because people have their minds made up.

2)If Bidwill is as cheap as you make him out to be then why would he cut big money players and lose some money in regards to the players he cut just due to bonuses paid as well as salary cap money (dead money doesn't go into his wallet)

Yeah I know but Bidwill is still a cheap bastard and I guess our HC is a complete moron for ever giving a shot to someone who as you put it will NEVER start in the NFL ever again.

If Mccown was a decent starter he would be a steal at his salary. So no harm in signing him. Their have beem miracles before and maybe there will be devine intervention on the behalf of Mccown and he will reach some clue about how to play.

Thats all I'm saying (even with the insult)... give the kid a 2nd shot . If he fails then so be it but this "he will never start ever again" or "he will be selling insurance" crap needs to stop.

He might get it, he might not. Those that claim to know the future are full of crap

 

[BigRedMO]

The use of "sad" and "pathetic" regarding my post is personalizing the discussion.

Bidwill wants to win. No owner wants to put out a lousy team and be ridiculed. He can afford the expensive first string but he cant afford the quality depth. It is not choice it is fact of life. This was more the case in the days before the salary cap but I believe it is still an issue. Look at how much the team has been below the cap in past years. That is why Bidwill wants the new stadium to create revenue form the luxury boxes to allow him to put a better product on the field.

Unless Warner gets hurt or really stinks it up Mccown will not get any playing time except hopefully a lot of ooportunites to mop up with a big lead. Then all he has to do is hand it off. I cant prove it but I cant prove that the sun will rise tomorrow either.

 

[Evil Ash]

The use of "sad" and "pathetic" regarding my post is personalizing the discussion.

The sad was just disagreeing with your point (you know the whole debate thing). The pathetic part was about this entire "discussion" because of how pointless it was

If you took it too personal, I apologise because it wasn't meant to be. I'm just tired of this damn argument because it goes absolutely nowhere other than to regurgitate points and name calling.

I just hate the absolutes that some people put on here. "He will never start again" well then prove it.

 

[Shane]

Yeah, my mind is made up before THIS YEAR'S training camp begins because I saw enough of him last year. It's not like we've never seen this kid play.

He got the middle tender because he's a decent backup...and we all know that that's very, very important in today's NFL. Just ask Chicago...heck, just ask Green.

By your rational you never would have given Warner a chance in the NFL, or Gannon would never attained his NFL prowess, or Brees etc... there are many more like Steve Young in his Tampa days.

The simple fact is that many players mature and lo and behold get better. Nothing we saw from Mccown in his 16 starts shows that he has no room to improve or make a dramatic trnaround. The potential for that is there!

 

[40yearfan]

1) I didn't make it personal. I was talking about this overdone topic as a whole. No matter whose side your on, we'll have a "discussion" that goes absolutely nowhere because people have their minds made up.

2)If Bidwill is as cheap as you make him out to be then why would he cut big money players and lose some money in regards to the players he cut just due to bonuses paid as well as salary cap money (dead money doesn't go into his wallet)

Yeah I know but Bidwill is still a cheap bastard and I guess our HC is a complete moron for ever giving a shot to someone who as you put it will NEVER start in the NFL ever again.



Thats all I'm saying (even with the insult)... give the kid a 2nd shot . If he fails then so be it but this "he will never start ever again" or "he will be selling insurance" crap needs to stop.

He might get it, he might not. Those that claim to know the future are full of crap

You're wasting you time EA. It never ceases to amaze me how many "experts" we have on this board who have never been connected with the NFL, but insist they know more than the coaches. Just make note of the people who are bashing Josh so that some time in the future (if Josh makes it), you can remind them of their folly.

 

[BigRedMO]

40 year that works both ways. If Mccown disappears from the NFL will you be willing to admit your wrong?

I also know that the Cubs love fans that dont criticize but just show up. That really is the kind of fan Bidwill and all owners want. But then again how long has it been since the Cubs have won the World Series? No team or person gets better without criticism.

 

[40yearfan]

The use of "sad" and "pathetic" regarding my post is personalizing the discussion.

Bidwill wants to win. No owner wants to put out a lousy team and be ridiculed. He can afford the expensive first string but he cant afford the quality depth. It is not choice it is fact of life. This was more the case in the days before the salary cap but I believe it is still an issue. Look at how much the team has been below the cap in past years. That is why Bidwill wants the new stadium to create revenue form the luxury boxes to allow him to put a better product on the field.

Unless Warner gets hurt or really stinks it up Mccown will not get any playing time except hopefully a lot of ooportunites to mop up with a big lead. Then all he has to do is hand it off. I cant prove it but I cant prove that the sun will rise tomorrow either.

You are talking about the "old" Bidwills and it wasn't totally lack of money that hurt this team. Drafting during the G. Boone years was an exercise in futility. Money was spent, but not wisely.

If you look at the team today and can see any resemblance to by gone years, you haven't looked at them very hard. The defense is as deep and probably much better than at any time I can remember and I've been following this team since 1962. Right now the offense is the question mark. All we need is a little luck (something that always deserted the old Cardinals) and a few offensive players to play above their heads (OL and QB) and we are off to the races.

 

[BigRedMO]

If money has not been an issue in such a long time in terms of back ups why is it that during Plummer's tenure there was no alternative to him at QB? That would have cost big money to have a realistic alternative. That claim about money was from insider Jim Hanifan not just my opinion.

The salary cap has reduced Bidwills money problems. Answer me this. In recent years the Cardinals have been significantly below the cap. Why? Is it possible he has not had the money to spend? Why are the Cardinals the least valuable NFL franchise? Stadium is part of that reason for that but not all of it. Is it because it is undercapitalized not including the stadium?

 

[40yearfan]

40 year that works both ways. If Mccown disappears from the NFL will you be willing to admit your wrong?

I also know that the Cubs love fans that dont criticize but just show up. That really is the kind of fan Bidwill and all owners want. But then again how long has it been since the Cubs have won the World Series? No team or person gets better without criticism.

I'll be the first one to tip my hat to you.

I don't mind constructive criticism, but to base your whole criticism on a young, inexperienced QB because of a bad year is
not constructive. Give the kid a chance to prove himself. After all, besides the team benefitting, the fans do too.

 

[Pariah]

By your rational you never would have given Warner a chance in the NFL, or Gannon would never attained his NFL prowess, or Brees etc... there are many more like Steve Young in his Tampa days.

You have a point with Brees, but not Warner or Young. Warner not only played iin a completely different league, but he played well there. Young wasn't bad in the USFL or Tampa.

The simple fact is that many players mature and lo and behold get better. Nothing we saw from Mccown in his 16 starts shows that he has no room to improve or make a dramatic trnaround. The potential for that is there!

I'll give you that he has "room to improve" (haha). I do think he'll get better...but I don't see the potential for a "dramatic turnaround." Sure, in the immortal words of Judy Tenudo, "it could happen," but what makes you think that it could? Yeah, he didn't have a great running game and was under considerable pressure a lot--but there were times when he wasn't and he still couldn't hit open WRs.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the guy and I'm cool with him being our #2--but I don't get what people see in him other than a big athletic kid (who couldn't hit water if he jumped out of a boat).

 

[40yearfan]

If money has not been an issue in such a long time in terms of back ups why is it that during Plummer's tenure there was no alternative to him at QB? That would have cost big money to have a realistic alternative. That claim about money was from insider Jim Hanifan not just my opinion.

Jim Hanifan hasn't been involved with the Cards for quite a while. What may have been true in his era no longer holds water. The Cards are a real NFL franchise now and any resemblance to the "old" Cards is purely coincidental.

 

[40yearfan]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the guy and I'm cool with him being our #2--but I don't get what people see in him other than a big athletic kid (who couldn't hit water if he jumped out of a boat).

Yeah--well, maybe the boat was in dry dock.

 

[Pariah]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the guy and I'm cool with him being our #2--but I don't get what people see in him other than a big athletic kid (who couldn't hit water if he jumped out of a boat).

..and the reason I'm cool with him being our #2 is because I think athetism is important in a backup QB. I'd rather have a jake plummer-like QB to comoe in in a pinch than a Warner-like QB to get us out a of a jam.

 

[Shane]

You have a point with Brees, but not Warner or Young. Warner not only played iin a completely different league, but he played well there. Young wasn't bad in the USFL or Tampa.

I'll give you that he has "room to improve" (haha). I do think he'll get better...but I don't see the potential for a "dramatic turnaround." Sure, in the immortal words of Judy Tenudo, "it could happen," but what makes you think that it could? Yeah, he didn't have a great running game and was under considerable pressure a lot--but there were times when he wasn't and he still couldn't hit open WRs.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the guy and I'm cool with him being our #2--but I don't get what people see in him other than a big athletic kid (who couldn't hit water if he jumped out of a boat).

Well I wouldnt say that Steve young was good in Tampa Bay unless you consider comp% in the low 50's and more than double the Ints to TD ratio he had GOOD. He wasnt a whole lot better than that in the USFL either. McCowns first year worth of starts are far better. Young has the athletacism you prefer in a back-up as well.

Your exactly right Warner never played in this league. WHich just shows what scouts thought of him to begin with. If it wasnt for Vermeil the guy would never have played a down in the NFL most likely.

Your claim that McCown has no accuracy isnt really backed up by his completion % the guy threw soem very nice balls throughout the year. Yes he had some bad ones as well. But accuracy can be practiced. His other intabgibles such as arm strength cannot.

 

[Stout]

I'll be the first one to tip my hat to you.

I don't mind constructive criticism, but to base your whole criticism on a young, inexperienced QB because of a bad year is
not constructive. Give the kid a chance to prove himself. After all, besides the team benefitting, the fans do too.

The problem is, how long do you give the kid? Bad coaching or not, he's had four years, and one as the starter? I suffered through Jake Plummer for FAR too long to do it all over again. If Josh would have shown something, flashes of becoming good, then I'd be in his corner. He overwhelmingly did not. As evinced by the Tampa game, he did not progress. I would say he regressed, but he wasn't very good to begin with. So how long do we wait?

 

[Evil Ash]

The problem is, how long do you give the kid? Bad coaching or not, he's had four years, and one as the starter? I suffered through Jake Plummer for FAR too long to do it all over again. If Josh would have shown something, flashes of becoming good, then I'd be in his corner. He overwhelmingly did not. As evinced by the Tampa game, he did not progress. I would say he regressed, but he wasn't very good to begin with. So how long do we wait?

I still say give him this year and see what happens.

As for the regressed part of the statement sorry I don't buy it. He had a QB rating of around 83 in his last 4 games and thats roughly the median of the enitre league. So if you're saying that you're saying that at least half of the NFL starting QBs suck (which I'm in agreement on ... people need to stop acting like there's a Peyton Manning out there every year because quite frankly there isn't).

Maybe he develops, maybe he doesn't. This "for certain he will fail" crap needs to stop.