Can someone talk me off the ledge?

[Sunsman44]

My prediction is that the Suns will sign at least one more player besides Strawberry. Since Straberry would give the Suns 12 players, that would leave them one under the minimum number of players on the roster. I'm not going out on a limb on that one.

There are a number of veteran free agents on the market that might be useful, but it seems very unlikely the Suns will get a rotation player.

No doubt Suns will sign somebody, but the question is when. You see, the list of players is simply going down by the minute and Suns will have no choice but to resign Pat Burke for another 2 years.

And speaking of Stawberry, I would like to see him man the backup point for Nash instead of Banks. We'll give Banks the empty bench seat left by Jalen Rose and trade him away before the deadline for a sack of marbles and a box of Kleenex brand tissues.

 

[az1965]

I have found this off-season so disturbing.

...

At this point:

1. I have no confidence that this ownership group values winning at a significant enough level to compete for a championship.
2. I find the referee scandal particularly disturbing. The question about the legitimacy of officiating and of the game will always be in the back of my mind (and in the comments on message boards) whenever a game seems to be called unevenly. The very idea that we could have lost a championship because of a crooked ref is almost insurmountable for me. I don't know if I can enjoy the NBA any more without a constant nagging sense of suspicion.

I am just not that interested anymore.

JUMP!

The grass is really greener down there...

 

[az1965]

im typing on my way down, i already jumped

Last words...?

 

[pokerface]

For starters, league pass is almost it worth just to follow the Hawks for their pick next season.

Second, If Amare and Diaw can stay on the bench when they're supposed to we can still do damage in the playoffs.

Third, The Suns added Grant Hill and might do another offseason move.


Might get interesting!

 

[Sunsman44]

Third, The Suns added Grant Hill and might do another offseason move.

Hmm...if you are going to base that on Sarver's wallet or pocket size, chances of another offseason move are extremely bleak to zero.

Right now, the only things you will see in the next two weeks are the following because the NBA requires a minimum 13 men. Suns have 11:

-Strawberry signs rookie deal for 12th roster spot
-Cheapo veteran big man (Burke, Skinner, Singleton) signs for 13th spot.

 

[pokerface]

Hmm...if you are going to base that on Sarver's wallet or pocket size, chances of another offseason move are extremely bleak to zero.

Right now, the only things you will see in the next two weeks are the following because the NBA requires a minimum 13 men. Suns have 11:

-Strawberry signs rookie deal for 12th roster spot
-Cheapo veteran big man (Burke, Skinner, Singleton) signs for 13th spot.

The Suns still have a lot of tradable assets...nothing can be ruled out.

 

[Joe Mama]

I have found this off-season so disturbing.

2. The Suns lose to the Spurs as a result of a very suspect judgement concerning suspensions for leaving the bench. (again, there was no altercation when Amare and Boris jumped off the bench. When they saw there was an altercation, they went back to the bench. But this is old stuff).

When the suspensions were first announced I felt the same way. However, go back and watch that whole sequence again. I still think David Stern could have avoided suspending Diaw without catching much flak because as soon as it became an altercation he was pretty much back at the end of the bench. There's just really no way you can say the same thing about Amare Stoudemire though.

The rule may suck at times, but it is the rule. It's also a rule that the owners nearly unanimously did not want to change after that incident. The coaches warned the entire team five minutes before Horry's body check on Nash that if anything happened they needed to stay on the bench. Still, Amare Stoudemire went way off the bench and was fighting the coaches when they were trying to pull him back.

I really don't see how Stern could have avoided suspending Amare Stoudemire, and I certainly don't think he screwed the Phoenix Suns by doing so. That one is on Amare Stoudemire.

I do agree with the basic sentiment of your post though. I like the Grant Hill signing. I like the draft picks that they actually made. The rest of the off-season has pretty much sucked... so far.

Joe Mama

 

[chickenhead]

I'm not on the ledge. The Suns are a good team. They still have Nash, Amare, and Marion--three players I would absolutely covet in anyone else's lineup. They're going to be a top contender this coming year, and most likely will finish with a top seed. All the bumps they've taken along the way may even make them feel like a team of destiny to a certain extent. They know they can beat the Spurs--they just haven't done it in the playoffs yet, but they also know that last year they weren't given the most fair shot. Anyway, as always I'm looking forward to the Suns. Always have...

 

[CardsFan88]

The Suns still have a lot of tradable assets...nothing can be ruled out.

I have to disagree. We have virtually no tradable assets

We've sold our pics for nothing basically and the league forbids trading your first round pick for 2 years in a row. Which means WHEN we want to trade the other picks, it'll have to be after we draft them. That said they aren't going to be lottery so, they are worth a lot less there.

We have amare...not going anywhere
We have nash....not going anywhere
We have marion....might be going somewhere, but odds are it will be like the proposed deal to the grizzlies.
We have barbosa...are we really stupid to trade him.

If we trade any of the four above we're screwed.

So we might have assets, but none that we can use to better our team, only to dismantle and start anew.

We're over the cap, and will be most likely for a while, which means we have no cap space, and very few draft picks to even sell off a bad contract.

We still are on the hook for diaw and banks contracts for years to come.

Marion could be traded at the deadline, opt out, as I doubt $arver will resign him.

Basically that leaves the Atlanta pick. Which with our gm's wouldn't be enough to get rid of banks next year.

We are staying afloat talent wise because of steve nash's ability to draw people like grant hill in for the minimum, and then trade away our more expensive assets like kt and 2 1sts.

Where will our backup pg come from, our pg of future, where will our future good big men come from, where will our future 3pt shooting specialists come from, our future defensive specialists? They'll come from the league minimum and the exceptions. That's it. Nothing else up our sleeve as we sold our undershirt already.

We have a couple good years left, but our window is now going to be smaller from here on out, than it has been.

Too bad, a few years back we had the makings for a championship window through 2012-2014 or thereabouts, and had the assets under contract and in draft pick forms to build a dynasty. Yes a dynasty. Would it happen I don't know. But the amount of talent that has flowed out of here and the amount that we let others draft from our picks is enough to put that word out there.

First we mortgaged the future, then the present, now the far future. To save money. To think if $arver spent about 40 million earlier, he'd have a whole lot less crappy contracts to sign people to diaw/banks/jones, and we would still have everybody we could have drafted, AND still had the picks we had traded for.

Hell he could have offered minnesota 5 1st round picks a couple of years ago to get KG and been way better off than what he does now.

Somebody should take all the guys we could of drafted, the guys we should have kept, and put them on a pseudo roster...then tell me if that wouldn't be the best team you've seen since the bulls/lakers/celtics...perhaps talent wise even superior.

Instead $arver $aved money, and although he's right, we still have a championship quality team...but just barely. Compare the two rosters and puke, as that's what he did. He's still got a good product. But he could of had the best in 30 years. That's what he sold off for a few bucks. Damn jerry you couldn't of held off 3 more years...you would've been golden.

The fact that $arver did that....a position that comes around every 20 or so years all sports teams combined...and he just pissed it away, is inexcusable. Even cuban with all his money, had never amassed the treasure chest $arver inherited. Now $arver saved money, but the treasure chest is gone.

Of course it's his nickel now, but regardless, put out a dynasty product and watch the millions extra roll in from everything associated with it. Hey being in the finals would have netted you an extra 10-15 million the last 2 years...just from that series...for starters.

I'll still watch, and I'll still root, and I'll still love. But thinking of what could have been, what should have been, what EASILY would have been if not for the cost conscious model $arver implemented....just makes me sick.

Pennywi$e, pound foolish - every single move meant to be pennywi$e...and look what has happened to our team.

 

[azirish]

I agree the Suns are not making an significant deals, but the future is not as grim as some people make out. Next year will still be tight, but it loosens up in 2009.

Marion's contract will expire. IMHO, despite his unhappiness with his status on the team and probably directly with Amare, I think he will end up re-signing with the Suns. This will be for substantially less than $10 million (above the MLE level but perhaps not that much).

Teams with cap space are generally bad teams who cannot use a guy who would be a secondary offensive player. I believe he will either sign with the Suns or there will be a sign and trade for stuff the Suns can use including draft picks and a TE. Even if Marion just leaves in 2009, the Suns would be well below the LT and could start looking at MLE players.

Marion's contract has been a problem since it was signed. It has caused financial strains and the team could never trade him for anything better than expiring contracts and average players, ie giving him away. Getting out from under that contract will open up a lot more options.

 

[buttsR4rebounding]

I have found this off-season so disturbing.

1. The Suns lose to the Spurs in a very poorly officiated series.
2. The Suns lose to the Spurs as a result of a very suspect judgement concerning suspensions for leaving the bench. (again, there was no altercation when Amare and Boris jumped off the bench. When they saw there was an altercation, they went back to the bench. But this is old stuff).
3. We trade away multiple first round draft picks for cash or saved salary.
4. We trade away our best interior defender (on a team that severely lacks interior defense and rebounding) for cash.
5. Our team does not look like it now has what it takes to contend for a championship.
6. We have a referee fixing games, and one who specifically worked games where EVERYONE considered calls suspect and particularly one-sided (game 3 of the Spurs series).

At this point:

1. I have no confidence that this ownership group values winning at a significant enough level to compete for a championship.
2. I find the referee scandal particularly disturbing. The question about the legitimacy of officiating and of the game will always be in the back of my mind (and in the comments on message boards) whenever a game seems to be called unevenly. The very idea that we could have lost a championship because of a crooked ref is almost insurmountable for me. I don't know if I can enjoy the NBA any more without a constant nagging sense of suspicion.

I am just not that interested anymore.

I vote "JUMP"!

It takes mental toughness to win championships...

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

When the suspensions were first announced I felt the same way. However, go back and watch that whole sequence again. I still think David Stern could have avoided suspending Diaw without catching much flak because as soon as it became an altercation he was pretty much back at the end of the bench. There's just really no way you can say the same thing about Amare Stoudemire though.

The rule may suck at times, but it is the rule. It's also a rule that the owners nearly unanimously did not want to change after that incident. The coaches warned the entire team five minutes before Horry's body check on Nash that if anything happened they needed to stay on the bench. Still, Amare Stoudemire went way off the bench and was fighting the coaches when they were trying to pull him back.

I really don't see how Stern could have avoided suspending Amare Stoudemire, and I certainly don't think he screwed the Phoenix Suns by doing so. That one is on Amare Stoudemire.

I do agree with the basic sentiment of your post though. I like the Grant Hill signing. I like the draft picks that they actually made. The rest of the off-season has pretty much sucked... so far.

Joe Mama

First, where did you hear the coaches warned the team 5 min before the incident?

Second, Stern had plenty of wiggle room, and not taking advantage of that wiggle room was opposite of the best interest of the playoffs and the most exciting series in the playoffs:

• "Vicinity of bench" and "altercation" are totally subjective
• altercation had not sparked(horry elbow to raja) until amare stopped walking
• balance it out with reviewing the "altercation" with jones and elson(i think) from the previous quarter and making a similar ruling - equal out the suspensions to be more consistent and lessen media fallout
• simply say not in the best interest of the league/series/playoffs to suspend players who did not contribute.

Any of those options get him out of the mess with much less controversy and bad media

 

[Joe Mama]

First, where did you hear the coaches warned the team 5 min before the incident?

Second, Stern had plenty of wiggle room, and not taking advantage of that wiggle room was opposite of the best interest of the playoffs and the most exciting series in the playoffs:

• "Vicinity of bench" and "altercation" are totally subjective
• altercation had not sparked(horry elbow to raja) until amare stopped walking
• balance it out with reviewing the "altercation" with jones and elson(i think) from the previous quarter and making a similar ruling - equal out the suspensions to be more consistent and lessen media fallout
• simply say not in the best interest of the league/series/playoffs to suspend players who did not contribute.

Any of those options get him out of the mess with much less controversy and bad media

Ivaroni said on the radio soon after game 4 that he and the other assistants had told all of the players to make sure they stayed on the bench about five minutes before the incident.

• "Vicinity of the bench" and "altercation" are subjective, but it seemed pretty clear that Amare Stoudemire was not anywhere near the vicinity of the bench. Even in the broadest interpretation of "vicinity of the bench" I'm not sure how you could make a case for Amare Stoudemire.
  
• In the incident between James Jones and Elson there really wasn't an altercation. It was more that they just got tangled up. Besides, in that case Tim Duncan never left the "vicinity of the bench". He was about 2 feet onto the floor right in front of the bench and went back immediately. Try looking at it objectively. It would have been ridiculous for Tim Duncan to get suspended for that.
  
• It's not like he only took a few steps off the bench and stopped. When the altercation started Amare did not stop. He was stopped by the coaches, and even they couldn't get him to go back to the bench immediately. I would totally agree with you had he turned around and headed to the bench as soon as it was obvious there was an altercation. it wasn't even close though.
  
• Stern would have been even more open to criticism had he done this. I know it's what we all hoped would happen. I know it's what a lot of the media wanted. I honestly think even the San Antonio Spurs would have preferred that those guys weren't suspended. The problem is that rule had always been interpreted pretty strictly. All the players have known it for years. It may be a stupid rule, but it's a rule that the owners wanted. It also wouldn't be fair to other teams who had suffered in the past because of the rule.

Joe

 

[dreamcastrocks]

joe you forgot to

[/list]

 

[Joe Mama]

joe you forgot to

[/list]

Doh! Thanks.

Joe

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ivaroni said on the radio soon after game 4 that he and the other assistants had told all of the players to make sure they stayed on the bench about five minutes before the incident.

I'm still pretty bitter about this statement, especially with Ivie blowing off Amare's "I didn't hear it" as rubbish. Rubbish or not, Ivie and the rest of the staff reacted EXACTLY the way they warned the players not to as they bolted off the bench. Maybe he should have been reminding himself that if he knew something might happen, that his job FIRST AND FOREMOST should have been to prevent those players from leaving the bench, rather than jumping up like a chicken with his head cut-off.

• "Vicinity of the bench" and "altercation" are subjective, but it seemed pretty clear that Amare Stoudemire was not anywhere near the vicinity of the bench. Even in the broadest interpretation of "vicinity of the bench" I'm not sure how you could make a case for Amare Stoudemire.
  
• In the incident between James Jones and Elson there really wasn't an altercation. It was more that they just got tangled up. Besides, in that case Tim Duncan never left the "vicinity of the bench". He was about 2 feet onto the floor right in front of the bench and went back immediately. Try looking at it objectively. It would have been ridiculous for Tim Duncan to get suspended for that.
  
• It's not like he only took a few steps off the bench and stopped. When the altercation started Amare did not stop. He was stopped by the coaches, and even they couldn't get him to go back to the bench immediately. I would totally agree with you had he turned around and headed to the bench as soon as it was obvious there was an altercation. it wasn't even close though.
  
• Stern would have been even more open to criticism had he done this. I know it's what we all hoped would happen. I know it's what a lot of the media wanted. I honestly think even the San Antonio Spurs would have preferred that those guys weren't suspended. The problem is that rule had always been interpreted pretty strictly. All the players have known it for years. It may be a stupid rule, but it's a rule that the owners wanted. It also wouldn't be fair to other teams who had suffered in the past because of the rule.

Joe

totally agree with this.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the league had just not suspended Diaw, I could have lived with it. It would have been fair considering what else happened in the playoffs. The league had at least 24 hours to think about what they were going to do and to balance the scales of justice. However, IMO, the victimized team should not be treated more severely than the offending team. Yes, I do think that in an outrageous act, the offending team (and not just the individual player) need to be punished equitably.