Cardinals | Cutting Kolb can save a lot of $$ - Rotoworld opinion

[Arizona's Finest]

Yeah, remember how Seattle went off on us at their place for 13 points? How embarrassing was that?

...

Let's compare Apples and Apples shall we Brian? You bring up the Seahawks game - How did your boy Skelly do the last time he faced a Top 6 defense, divisional opponent, on the road and in bad conditions???

Oh right. He got yanked. for Rich Bartel. After maybe the worst played QB game I have ever seen and the SF DC called him out on National TV as being a one read QB. How conveniently we forget.

I credit John for getting better these last two games but he still takes a half to wake up and still turns over the ball way too much. Especially for a guy with the benefit of an extra year and full off season in 2010 under his belt.

 

[Evil Ash]

Let's compare Apples and Apples shall we Brian? You bring up the Seahawks game - How did your boy Skelly do the last time he faced a Top 6 defense, divisional opponent, on the road and in bad conditions???

Oh right. He got yanked. for Rich Bartel. After maybe the worst played QB game I have ever seen and the SF DC called him out on National TV as being a one read QB. How conveniently we forget.

I credit John for getting better these last two games but he still takes a half to wake up and still turns over the ball way too much. Especially for a guy with the benefit of an extra year and full off season in 2010 under his belt.

How did Big Ben (who according to this board is in the elite QB category) do against that same 49ers team tonight on the road? He sure lit them up didn't he? How about Eli Manning against the Redskins? Aaron Rodgers against the Chiefs?

I'm not saying Skelton is the future or not but the reality of QB play for quite a few people has gone bye-bye a long time ago. Hell Warner couldn't play the niners either

 

[Phrazbit]

Let's compare Apples and Apples shall we Brian? You bring up the Seahawks game - How did your boy Skelly do the last time he faced a Top 6 defense, divisional opponent, on the road and in bad conditions???

Oh right. He got yanked. for Rich Bartel. After maybe the worst played QB game I have ever seen and the SF DC called him out on National TV as being a one read QB. How conveniently we forget.

I credit John for getting better these last two games but he still takes a half to wake up and still turns over the ball way too much. Especially for a guy with the benefit of an extra year and full off season in 2010 under his belt.

In week 3 the Seahawks were not exactly a powerhouse.

And you credit defense and special teams for Skelton's win loss record, it goes both ways: Kolb has a total of 2 wins... one because of a special teams play and the other because the defense held the cowboys offense to 13 and the cowboys iced their own kicker...

I mean honestly, the idea that the QBs have had NOTHING to do with the teams win loss record is hilarious. It is not as though Kolb was lighting up any of the bad defenses he saw, or winning a single road game. Skelton's one loss was to the best defense in the NFL on the road! You rip him for getting benched for Bartel, Kolb got benched for Bartel against the lowly Vikings!!!

 

[Phrazbit]

Never seen many QB's take as big a hits as he did in that two game span. It was unreal to be honest.

Yeah, when you have absolutely no pocket awareness and your response to getting pressured is to run backwards you will end up taking a lot of big hits.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Yeah, when you have absolutely no pocket awareness and your response to getting pressured is to run backwards you will end up taking a lot of big hits.

On that hit in particular, he actually stood in the pocket and took the hit. Granted, he probably held on the ball too long, but ever since then he's looked terrified. Some people just don't have the balls to play QB in the NFL, and as far as I'm concerned, Kolb definitely does not have what it takes to be anything more than a back-up. I hope he proves me wrong, but I certainly haven't seen anything from him that would indicate otherwise.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm not getting into this argument but let's get rid of the myth that Kolb is constantly running backwards,. He's done it about twice this year, I think against Balt and Pitt. That happens to all QB's at times. Hell, Seneca Wallace was going backwards that much just on Sunday. I see Ben doing it all the time.

It's not like Kolb gets back there, turns, and runs away from the defense. That argument is just plain stupid, and non-existent as factor into whether Kolb is going to be successfull, or not. Sure, he could use better pock awareness at times but mobility is part of his game.

 

[Stout]

I'm happy we are winning of course but I would take 6-10 with our definite QBOF on roster then 9-7 and back to the drawing board AGAIN.

I very much agree.

 

[Chopper0080]

Aren't you the guy agitating for drafting Nick Foles in the third round? What's the difference between that and keeping Kolb. I've explained to you already how you can't develop 2 much less 3 QBs in the NFL anymore.

Not during the season, but during the offseason you can develop 3 QBs. I guess that I don't see Skelton and Kolb both around past next and so I would rather take a good QB in the 3rd or 4th in a strong QB class, have a year for him learn the offense and how to work as a professional. Maybe it is overkill, but you just can't afford to be deficient at the QB position in this league anymore.

 

[Duckjake]

Really ?

If it was not for a competition we would have started Leinart in the 2008 season and not Warner.

That's a myth fabricated by the Cards to save face. CKW was going with Warner all the way. Name one team that has had competition at QB that has won a SuperBowl in the last 15 years that didn't have an all pro defense. (and there's only been a couple of those) All that does is reduce the number of reps each guy gets with the first team.

It's one of the major problems the Cards had after Plummer and before him as well. They never really settled on one QB being the guy until Warner's 2007 performance forced their hand.

 

[desertdawg]

This is what I was talking about when I said it was a trap game, Skelton gets credit for the win, but we didn't win because of Skelton, but folks still run around every week in here..Kolb this, Skelton that. They said last night Skelton has outplayed Tebow in the last month, but that doesn't mean much to me.

Like the guys starting all the "Told you so" or "Ha, you suck for wanting Whiz fired" threads. It's funny to me because everybody got what they wanted, why can't everybody just be happy with the changes that are being made on offense. Just chill man. Whiz's offense has completely changed, for the better, that's all anybody wanted, prolly still a couple Hunt-haters running around but what are you gonna do?

So props to Skelton for doing his job and getting better at it, bright spot in a pretty bright second half of the season. Props to Horton, this defense is awesome to watch. Props to the defense, these young are bringing it. Mucho props to Whiz, because if we were 3-11 right now (even during a re-build year), I'd be calling everybody and their grandma trying to get him shipped out of here.

I hope Kolb starts, I still want to see what he can do with this new team. I like Skelton, but we need to know what we have in the huge investment, those that say they already know are false prophets. Kolb could still be the guy, but he's looking like those boxes in my wharehouse right now....marked "FRAGILE"

 

[Duckjake]

Patriots have used 4 different centers.

Patriots could use 4 different anythings other than Brady and Billy Cheat and still win.

 

[Duckjake]

This is what I was talking about when I said it was a trap game, Skelton gets credit for the win, but we didn't win because of Skelton, but folks still run around every week in here..Kolb this, Skelton that. They said last night Skelton has outplayed Tebow in the last month, but that doesn't mean much to me.

Like the guys starting all the "Told you so" or "Ha, you suck for wanting Whiz fired" threads. It's funny to me because everybody got what they wanted, why can't everybody just be happy with the changes that are being made on offense. Just chill man. Whiz's offense has completely changed, for the better, that's all anybody wanted, prolly still a couple Hunt-haters running around but what are you gonna do?

So props to Skelton for doing his job and getting better at it, bright spot in a pretty bright second half of the season. Props to Horton, this defense is awesome to watch. Props to the defense, these young are bringing it. Mucho props to Whiz, because if we were 3-11 right now (even during a re-build year), I'd be calling everybody and their grandma trying to get him shipped out of here.

I hope Kolb starts, I still want to see what he can do with this new team. I like Skelton, but we need to know what we have in the huge investment, those that say they already know are false prophets. Kolb could still be the guy, but he's looking like those boxes in my wharehouse right now....marked "FRAGILE"

I'm with you Dawg. Everybody has gotten what they wanted. The Cards are winning and one of the reasons the Cards are winning is that CKW, (as well as the team) is doing some of the things that fans were criticizing him for not doing earlier in the season.

6-1 has made for some really enjoyable Sundays. I just wish I could post more positive stuff without jinxing guys.

 

[az1965]

I'm not getting into this argument but let's get rid of the myth that Kolb is constantly running backwards,. He's done it about twice this year, I think against Balt and Pitt. That happens to all QB's at times. Hell, Seneca Wallace was going backwards that much just on Sunday. I see Ben doing it all the time.

It's not like Kolb gets back there, turns, and runs away from the defense. That argument is just plain stupid, and non-existent as factor into whether Kolb is going to be successfull, or not. Sure, he could use better pock awareness at times but mobility is part of his game.

Sorry, you are sadly mistaken... you should rewatch those early six games. He was going too far back or constantly running out of the pocket.))

 

[Shane]

Sorry, you are sadly mistaken... you should rewatch those early six games. He was going too far back or constantly running out of the pocket.))

Absolutely ran out of the pocket early and often after about game 2 when he was getting blasted from behind. It made him gun shy for sure. Much of the time he was running was for good reason though. Were there times he ran when he shouldnt have? Sure. But many times he did it for good reason. Lest you all forget who he has blocking for him. Make no mistake either the OL has been blocking better the last few weeks. Its why I wanna see Kolb and see if he can continue with the performance he had against the Cowboys.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Sorry, you are sadly mistaken... you should rewatch those early six games. He was going too far back or constantly running out of the pocket.))

+1.

One or two times ? I disagree. One or two times he staying in the pocket is more like it.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Sorry, you are sadly mistaken... you should rewatch those early six games. He was going too far back or constantly running out of the pocket.))

Running out of the pocket is not turning your back and running away from the defense, which is what I was talking about.

 

[kerouac9]

Running out of the pocket is not turning your back and running away from the defense, which is what I was talking about.

He was backing up into sacks all season long, including early. It wasn't a result of becoming shell-shocked.

An NFL offensive tackle is trained to "ride" an outside rusher back behind the quarterback. Kolb would keep dropping back consistently to the point where both Keith and Brown were directing the rushers. This isn't college, where an elite offensive lineman can just stop an opposing rushers cold for the entire game. You have to do something with these guys.

Brown and Keith weren't playing great early in the season, but Kolb wasn't helping them, and Skelton actually is by moving up in the pocket and forcing edge rushers to change direction and come back up behind them. One reason why Daryn Colledge is getting exposed as being a bit overrated is because he's not always able to counter the inside moves of defensive linemen, when before you'd never see the inside rusher because Kolb had already run into a sack.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I agree that Kolb needs to do a better job of stepping up into the pocket.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He was backing up into sacks all season long, including early. It wasn't a result of becoming shell-shocked.

An NFL offensive tackle is trained to "ride" an outside rusher back behind the quarterback. Kolb would keep dropping back consistently to the point where both Keith and Brown were directing the rushers. This isn't college, where an elite offensive lineman can just stop an opposing rushers cold for the entire game. You have to do something with these guys.

Brown and Keith weren't playing great early in the season, but Kolb wasn't helping them, and Skelton actually is by moving up in the pocket and forcing edge rushers to change direction and come back up behind them. One reason why Daryn Colledge is getting exposed as being a bit overrated is because he's not always able to counter the inside moves of defensive linemen, when before you'd never see the inside rusher because Kolb had already run into a sack.

Yep.

 

[john h]

rotoworld

One thing you can be sure of is that the Bidwills will look at this closely as it involves a lot of money as well as other ramifications. I had read this once before and wondered why no one had brought this up on the board. Keeping him is sure no slam dunk.

 

[john h]

Either way Graves needs some praise for making a contract that can be jettisoned loose if they need to. Although I highly doubt that he is cut. Nor do I think he should be.

Just think what a good player we could get with the saved money? If Skelton continues as he has it would make sense. One also has to be concerned about the durability of Kolb. He is way to expensive as a backup and it would make zero sense to keep a lesser QB on the team. Graves and the coaches have to be seeing what we are seeing. I could care less about who's feelings might be hurt by cutting Kolb but when it comes to the Bidwills I doubt they would either.

 

[john h]

ESPN just reported that Kevin Kolb will be the starter in 2012...The Cardinals want to give him a full off season and get him into the weight room.

Why does the media and everyone refer to Kolb as the starter? It sure looks in reality like Skelton is the starter.

 

[Chopper0080]

He was backing up into sacks all season long, including early. It wasn't a result of becoming shell-shocked.

An NFL offensive tackle is trained to "ride" an outside rusher back behind the quarterback. Kolb would keep dropping back consistently to the point where both Keith and Brown were directing the rushers. This isn't college, where an elite offensive lineman can just stop an opposing rushers cold for the entire game. You have to do something with these guys.

Brown and Keith weren't playing great early in the season, but Kolb wasn't helping them, and Skelton actually is by moving up in the pocket and forcing edge rushers to change direction and come back up behind them. One reason why Daryn Colledge is getting exposed as being a bit overrated is because he's not always able to counter the inside moves of defensive linemen, when before you'd never see the inside rusher because Kolb had already run into a sack.

Not necessarily true. In most blocking schemes, because most QBs throw from the pocket, there is a designed escape route for QB's if the protection breaks down which is between the OG and OT. Because of this, the OTs in these schemes are taught to give up the edge rush in order to protect the inside gap. This is why Dwight Freeeney gets so many sacks w/ his spin move. He literally spins right into the QB's designed escape route.

But, in some protection schemes, the escape route is designed to be outside of the OT. Teams with mobile QB's (like Philly) use this because their QB can stress the defense more outside the pocket than up inside the pocket. In these schemes the offensive tackle is taught to protect more against the outside rush which allows easier access inside. This is why you see Michael Vick get quick pressure from a DE that wins on an inside move, but Vick then spins outside and makes an incredible escape. Most people don't realize that the protection scheme is designed that way.

One of the many adjustments that Kolb has had to make on the fly.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Not necessarily true. In most blocking schemes, because most QBs throw from the pocket, there is a designed escape route for QB's if the protection breaks down which is between the OG and OT. Because of this, the OTs in these schemes are taught to give up the edge rush in order to protect the inside gap. This is why Dwight Freeeney gets so many sacks w/ his spin move. He literally spins right into the QB's designed escape route.

But, in some protection schemes, the escape route is designed to be outside of the OT. Teams with mobile QB's (like Philly) use this because their QB can stress the defense more outside the pocket than up inside the pocket. In these schemes the offensive tackle is taught to protect more against the outside rush which allows easier access inside. This is why you see Michael Vick get quick pressure from a DE that wins on an inside move, but Vick then spins outside and makes an incredible escape. Most people don't realize that the protection scheme is designed that way.

One of the many adjustments that Kolb has had to make on the fly.

That must be why every QB in Philly gets injured. Now it all makes sense...

 

[Chopper0080]

That must be why every QB in Philly gets injured. Now it all makes sense...

It's a calculated risk that can lead to really big plays. It also helps vs. the blitz because everything gets trapped inside and Vick runs loose outside because the defense is in man coverage. One thing that you really have to like about Andy Reid is his willingness to take risks and not coach afraid with a mobile QB.