Cardinals Do Not Have a Plan (or Clue)

[TheCardFan]

Mitch is right on this one...(did I say that out loud?).

The Cards are now worse than they were at the end of last season.

Forget the debate if LD was worth the money or not, we lost a starting LT and we have zero options to replace him right now. And don't start with guys on our roster, with as much as our line has struggled the last 3 years, there is a reason they were on the bench.

The Cards have invested huge dollars and hope into Matt Leinart, Edge, Fitz, and Q but they have not addressed the line in three years.

It's like buying a multi-million dollar boat that doesn' float. Yes it's luxurious inside but not when there is water pouring in from all sides.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch is right on this one...(did I say that out loud?).

The Cards are now worse than they were at the end of last season.

Forget the debate if LD was worth the money or not, we lost a starting LT and we have zero options to replace him right now. And don't start with guys on our roster, with as much as our line has struggled the last 3 years, there is a reason they were on the bench.

The Cards have invested huge dollars and hope into Matt Leinart, Edge, Fitz, and Q but they have not addressed the line in three years.

It's like buying a multi-million dollar boat that doesn' float. Yes it's luxurious inside but not when there is water pouring in from all sides.

You said it TCFan.

Meanwhile...no visits are planned for today or tomorrow...

Meanwhile Miami flies out to California to meet with Joey Porter to sign him on the spot before he can schedule visits..."We will visit you, " the Dolphins told him and then offered him $20M in guarantees and got the deal done. Miami has a far worse cap situation than the Cardinals.

 

[Ryanwb]

The Cards have invested huge dollars and hope into Matt Leinart, Edge, Fitz, and Q but they have not addressed the line in three years.

Please just stick to posting from KFFL.

Did they not sign Oliver Ross and Milford Brown the last two offseasons? ...and Al Jonhson THIS season? GMAFB

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Finally someone who makes sense!!!!!!!! I am so sick of the whining & gnashing of teeth from people on this board. This has been the WORST FA group the NFL has ever put out & yet everyone wants to rush out & sign this garbage. We spent a lot of money in free agency the past couple of years & where did it get us??? 5-11, 6-10, 5-11. This team needs SOME depth & PLENTY of real NFL coaching. Whisenhunt & Grimm have experienced what it takes to win during the free agency area, so let them do their jobs. Free Agency does not build strong organizations, the DRAFT does. Spend more time at work or with your kids, but please stop the whining.

NO. NO. NO. NO.

That is just not right. The problem is not that we have not signed anyone. The problem is the SAME DARN PROBLEM THAT has plagued this team for almost a decade.

We need to upgrade our offensive line. And I don't want to hear about "coaching up" our line. That BS has been blown up my rear for 5 years now and "coaching up" has done NOTHING!

Pashos, Stichomb, Pettigout, and Gandy are not blockbuster players but they are a heck of a lot better than Oliver Ross, and the rest of our offensive linemen that are not our starting 4 players.

This team has so much talent that if the line just gets in the defense's way not even block them as much as re-direct them we score 28 pts.

How about strong side linebacker? Who is going to play there? Calvin Pace? Yeah, now that you mention it I can see how saving money and not spending it on Brian Simmons is the right thing to do. I mean Calvin Pace tore it up last year

And I can care less about how well people think Whiz, and Grimm know how to do their jobs and win. I heard the same BS about Denny Green and it got us no where. Bottom line this team has to get better. Show me some wins and THEN I will give the current staff some slack.

Finally, You don't like the "whining" then hit the road jack. I am enjoying reading and typing about how this team is missing oppourtunities. I spent 11 hours at work today, and I have no kids. This is what I want to do with my time so if you don't like it. Then leave. Go spend more time at work or with your kids since the "whining" is so unbearable.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Please just stick to posting from KFFL.

Did they not sign Oliver Ross and Milford Brown the last two offseasons? ...and Al Jonhson THIS season? GMAFB

And Al Johnson this year.

Thank you for re-enforcing our point.

The Cardinals have to be even more aggressive about upgrading the offensive line.

Niether Oliver Ross, nor Milford Brown, no Al Johnson are considered great offensive linemen. The Cardinals signed them because they were cheap players on the market that were offensive linemen. Thus they can say "We tried and it didn't pan out" to cover there butts when the offensive line ruins yet another season.

 

[Ryanwb]

The Cardinals have to be even more aggressive about upgrading the offensive line.

Niether Oliver Ross, nor Milford Brown, no Al Johnson are considered great offensive linemen. The Cardinals signed them because they were cheap players on the market that were offensive linemen. Thus they can say "We tried and it didn't pan out" to cover there butts when the offensive line ruins yet another season.

Who are these "great offensive lineman" that are available? This is what I don't get about you guys, there isn't great talent out there!

 

[AntSports Steve]

Part of the problem is that even though the Cards were 5-11 last year, there is a lot of talent on the team and that give us fans a lot of hope. The hope would be to improve on the teams weakness and make the playoffs.

The Cards have known for years when L.Davis contracts would expire. Last year we were crying for more OT depth. I believe we started the year with Wakefield as the backup RT last year. That's crazy and we complained about it all offseason last year.

No where was their a plan to improve the OTs on this team. They didn't draft an OT last year to train up. They didn't get one in Free Agency to push / replace Davis.

So, after the Bears game the Cards are out of the playoff hunt (as usually) and I talk to my friend and ask. "How do you fix the Cards?". We come to the conclusion that 2007 season will be decided on what happens at OT and what happens with LD.

The Cards choose to let him go. That's reasonable. Mitch is mad because they let him go based on money (which they had tons of at the time $36M) instead of based on what's best to improve the team.

Then, they haven't that a strong enough front office to bring in (at least for an interview) a replacement.

So, there's lots of frustration. The Cards are ready for the playoffs if only they had a way to improve their OL. Expecting a rookie, even Thomas, to save the season is crazy and very poor planning. And that's what it's looking like. The Cards APPEAR to be praying that a good OT is available and will be able to start day one.

I expected improvement. Right now, they have stepped back. From a 5-11 record, the only place to go is the 1st pick in the 2008 draft.

(now, if they go execute MY PLAN to SAVE FREE AGENCY, they will still have a shot).

Gandy at LT will not save the day. Gandy will make a emergency injury fill in.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Who are these "great offensive lineman" that are available? This is what I don't get about you guys, there isn't great talent out there!

So you are saying Oliver Ross is better than Pashos, Stinchcomb, Pettigout or Gandy ?

How about Marc Colombo, the OT for the Cowboys ? He is available and I think he would be an upgrade as well.

You see that is the problem. Many of you are saying that there are no "great offensive linemen" out there anymore. I am saying you are correct, but what is out there is still better than the pile of dog poop we have in the desert.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Again, if we get Joe Thomas then all of this is completely moot. I think that we're going overboard with the chicken little mentality here.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

So you are saying Oliver Ross is better than Pashos, Stinchcomb, Pettigout or Gandy ?

How about Marc Colombo, the OT for the Cowboys ? He is available and I think he would be an upgrade as well.

You see that is the problem. Many of you are saying that there are no "great offensive linemen" out there anymore. I am saying you are correct, but what is out there is still better than the pile of dog poop we have in the desert.

How do we know that the Graves (and the Cardinals) brass have contacted Colombo (his agent/represenative) to come out here for a visit, however, whatever reason the other side refused? We absolutely have no idea on everything that goes on behind-the-scenes... Not like the media or any other talking head knows everything...mostly the media during this time of year tends to go on baseless speculation....or to sensationalize everything..... It's not like KFFL/PFW/PFT... or whatever source is aware of the exact list of the players the Cardinals might have contacted.. and in essence..we truely will never know.....

 

[Ryanwb]

How do we know that the Graves (and the Cardinals) brass have contacted Colombo (his agent/represenative) to come out here for a visit, however, whatever reason the other side refused? We absolutely have no idea on everything that goes on behind-the-scenes... Not like the media or any other talking head knows everything...mostly the media during this time of year tends to go on baseless speculation....or to sensationalize everything..... It's not like KFFL/PFW/PFT... or whatever source is aware of the exact list of the players the Cardinals might have contacted.. and in essence..we truely will never know.....

Finally!! I'm so glad we have people like Mitch and Rugbymuffin on this board who are not only recognized NFL talent evaluators but know what goes on behind the scenes in the Cardinals front office meetings. Seriously guys, where would we be without your expert analysis and insider information?

 

[Mitch]

Again, if we get Joe Thomas then all of this is completely moot. I think that we're going overboard with the chicken little mentality here.

First of all...Joe Thomas is projected as a top three pick. We cannot count on him being there at #5.

Secondly...we are not just talking about the T position...how about SLB? Blocking TE? FB? CB (the plan seems to be to stick with Rolle and Green and to me that's like planning to draft Joe Thomas at #5...because Rolle is slow and Green lacks confidence and mental toughness...which means the Cardinals, if smart, will sign a Roderick Hood and a Kevin Kaesviharn---who can play corner too--to give the team good options should Rolle and Green continue to underachieve)?..FS? Whiz knows Kaesviharn...why bring him in and make no offer? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE...and it makes the Cardinals look like they always do: CLUELESS.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

How do we know that the Graves (and the Cardinals) brass have contacted Colombo (his agent/represenative) to come out here for a visit, however, whatever reason the other side refused? We absolutely have no idea on everything that goes on behind-the-scenes... Not like the media or any other talking head knows everything...mostly the media during this time of year tends to go on baseless speculation....or to sensationalize everything..... It's not like KFFL/PFW/PFT... or whatever source is aware of the exact list of the players the Cardinals might have contacted.. and in essence..we truely will never know.....

Exactly, we can try and bring guys in for a visit or offer them all the money they want. Fact is if they dont want to sign here, we have no chance. I will gladly take our cap space into next season's market and see what happens. I will gladly give Grimm some time to work with the line. I will gladly wait to see how the draft goes.

We cant fix the line in one season and we sure as hell cant fix the line with this free agent market.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

And Al Johnson this year.

Thank you for re-enforcing our point.

The Cardinals have to be even more aggressive about upgrading the offensive line.

Niether Oliver Ross, nor Milford Brown, no Al Johnson are considered great offensive linemen. The Cardinals signed them because they were cheap players on the market that were offensive linemen. Thus they can say "We tried and it didn't pan out" to cover there butts when the offensive line ruins yet another season.

Can you honestly say that any of this years FA OL are "Great"? I cannot. The class is riddled with can't stay healthy, underacheivers.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

First of all...Joe Thomas is projected as a top three pick. We cannot count on him being there at #5.

Secondly...we are not just talking about the T position...how about SLB? Blocking TE? FB? CB (the plan seems to be to stick with Rolle and Green and to me that's like planning to draft Joe Thomas at #5...because Rolle is slow and Green lacks confidence and mental toughness...which means the Cardinals, if smart, will sign a Roderick Hood and a Kevin Kaesviharn---who can play corner too--to give the team good options should Rolle and Green continue to underachieve)?..FS? Whiz knows Kaesviharn...why bring him in and make no offer? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE...and it makes the Cardinals look like they always do: CLUELESS.

So was Leinart...Two drafts in a row!

 

[Renz]

I agree that Kelly would have been a good addition, but I don't think it is going to make or break our season. Some people are getting a bit carried away, IMO.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

So you are saying Oliver Ross is better than Pashos, Stinchcomb, Pettigout or Gandy ?

How about Marc Colombo, the OT for the Cowboys ? He is available and I think he would be an upgrade as well.

You see that is the problem. Many of you are saying that there are no "great offensive linemen" out there anymore. I am saying you are correct, but what is out there is still better than the pile of dog poop we have in the desert.

Their is a huge difference between being an "Upgrade" and "Great".

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

First of all...Joe Thomas is projected as a top three pick. We cannot count on him being there at #5.

Secondly...we are not just talking about the T position...how about SLB? Blocking TE? FB? CB (the plan seems to be to stick with Rolle and Green and to me that's like planning to draft Joe Thomas at #5...because Rolle is slow and Green lacks confidence and mental toughness...which means the Cardinals, if smart, will sign a Roderick Hood and a Kevin Kaesviharn---who can play corner too--to give the team good options should Rolle and Green continue to underachieve)?..FS? Whiz knows Kaesviharn...why bring him in and make no offer? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE...and it makes the Cardinals look like they always do: CLUELESS.

That's why we should trade up for Joe Thomas. However, with the Lions getting George Foster, and the Bucs getting Petitgout it improves our chances if we don't trade up (which IMO is a major mistake). Things like a blocking TE, although nice, are not critical for success. They sure as hell aren't going to make or break our season. I'd like to bring in Jon Beason, Stewart Bradley, or Zak DeOssie for SLB. Rolle's speed is not a concern at all for me (he doesn't have elite speed, but it shouldn't be a problem for him). I'll wait until Kaesviharn and Hood to sign somewhere else before I call out the Cards, as of right now there's still a very good chance that they can be on the team. I like where the team is at right now, and if we continue our progress into the draft, I see no reason to panic.

 

[clif]

How do we know that the Graves (and the Cardinals) brass have contacted Colombo (his agent/represenative) to come out here for a visit, however, whatever reason the other side refused? We absolutely have no idea on everything that goes on behind-the-scenes... Not like the media or any other talking head knows everything...mostly the media during this time of year tends to go on baseless speculation....or to sensationalize everything..... It's not like KFFL/PFW/PFT... or whatever source is aware of the exact list of the players the Cardinals might have contacted.. and in essence..we truely will never know.....

Exactly. I was going to post something similiar, but I didn't want to waste the energy.

Let's be fair here. The cards brought in a lineman... and signed him. Don't you think if they were interested in any of the other guys they would have brought them in?

I could understand the frustration if (like the old days) FA's came here and shopped themselves and left without an offer, but for the most part that is not happening. Edge came and never left. This year the Cards brought guys in and offered two and one signed. It is fairly clear that FO was not interested in the other guys out there. Can we safely assume that since none of them have been brought in... they feel there are options?

 

[red desert]

Knowing what we know about LD do you really think the Cards would have been in their right minds to sign him for 50 mil? I would have been ok with him back, but nowhere near that price.

Had you even heard of Pashos before the past few months? Did the guy ever make it out of Jacksonville? Hell did he even leave Baltimore before he had a deal in place with the Jags?

Some things will never change.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Three, four days into free agency... and the same, blah, blah, blah BS, from the usual suspects... Every year, since the advent of the internet... same cut and paste arguments... POSITIVELY LAUGHABLE!!!

 

[jefftheshark]

Perhaps during Whisenhut's interview process, the conversation went like this:

Graves: How do you feel about the talent level of our team?

Whiz: You have assembled a great group of players. The biggest problem that I see is that your old coach stunk on ice.

Graves: So you don't see a wholesale purge of the existing players?

Whiz: No. We need to get rid of that Big waste of cap space, along with some of the deadwood, but I think we have a playoff team in place - if properly coached.

Graves: So, no big splash in free agency?

Whiz: No - just depth.

Graves: How about a replacement at LT?

Whiz: We had our eye on a guy all last season who played at ________ U. We'll draft him in the ___ round and with Grimm as mentor, we'll be fine.

Graves: Aren't you concerned that this will really piss Walt off?

Whiz: Sometime things like that just can't be helped.

The Shark

 

[clif]

Some things will never change.

What would that be.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Exactly, we can try and bring guys in for a visit or offer them all the money they want. Fact is if they dont want to sign here, we have no chance. I will gladly take our cap space into next season's market and see what happens. I will gladly give Grimm some time to work with the line. I will gladly wait to see how the draft goes.

We cant fix the line in one season and we sure as hell cant fix the line with this free agent market.

Didnt people learn from the Colvin or Hartwell experiences? FAs in the past would merely just come out here to visit so they could use/abuse the Cardinals by getting them into a negotiating battle w/another team to drive-up the ante.. their cost....

I think that this current regime is also trying to deter that from happening.. their bringing in players who will be willing to accept whatever role the Cardinals will offer them......

So..we lost out on Kelly... I still believe that Pope will be the break-out story of '07.... He was misused by Denny (which several other players of course were)...... They will use him more in the redzone (especially when theyre w/in 10-yards)..... They will draft some TE in the lower round to block..someone who will come cheap... not a TE who just signed a contract today that is starting TE money.... I just have a lot of faith in Pope... 6'8 with the speed.. pass-catching ability... he will be a monster.....

We must all remain patient... it's not even the 1st full week of FA.... The team must finally build through the draft...They do have a foundation/nucleaus of highly-skilled players on both sides of the ball.. most of those (except for Dansby) is locked-up long-term..... They just need complement type players right now.. not like they have to gut the entire team and start over again...and that's essentially what they've brought in thus far.. complement players who in most cases will be paid according to the role they're assigned to....

 

[red desert]

Good lord... you want us to sign crap just for the sake of signing someone?

In a word: hell yes. Okay, that's two words.