Cardinals Seahawks: The everything wrong with Kyler thread

[slanidrac16]

AWESOME POST. This should be sent to the local tv sports news.

And I feel dumb. My apologies go out to Kingsbury. Poor execution by Kyler’s are leading to 2nd and 3rd and long situations. Easy first downs are being left all over the field.

Now I’m convinced Kyler needs to be benched at some point if he continues to perform like this.
Kyler doesn’t have time. HA! Yes he doesn’t have time to decide what to do 3 seconds after the snap.
He clearly can’t read pre snap and apparently defense are able to give him the look THEY want him to see.
Three plus years into this career and offense and Kyler just don’t get it. We are in trouble.

 

[football karma]

I think Kyler is so concerned/afraid of contact that he doesn’t want to go through progressions so he dumps it off first possible chance. Many QBs will hang in there pocket KNOWING they will get lit up to make the correct read but not Kyler. Since last season I have been saying he is soft and I honestly hate suggesting that but to me it is obvious.

with the stipulation that Kyler generally avoids contact -- i dont think that is driving the issues

he spent the entire second half of that game holding the ball, and getting sacked as a result

this looks to me like a QB who has zero confidence in what he is seeing

 

[speedy]

Or we can’t rule out that Kyler is just uncoachable as has been a suggestion. It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility at all.

I agree wholly Shane. He's got way less NFL experience than KK does, and here he is throwing coach under the bus. I think KK is in over his head, but KM has zero business doing that to the (ANY) coach.

KW did a breakdown of KM after his 2nd year, and was pointing out many receivers he was missing. I know you probably dont want to hear it, but Larry was open and missed a lot in his final year (even slow guys can get separation, just look at Q bro).

Not that the sun rises, shines, and falls on Larry's ass, but I personally believe Larry checked out because Kyler is a brat.

Even in my own occupation, there are times I get fed up with some of these self centered A holes: "The guys who dont know, what they dont know..." I cant stand these types of idiots.

I keep up, go fishing, have drinks, and either attend/or invite to my family events, dudes +/- 25 years my age. Its never a generational thing for me, but rather a humility and integrity thing. Im 46 and have a close buddy that's 73; I also have a dude I am equally close to that just turned 27.

Kyler is a bitch... Lets stop blaming video games and COD on his ****+y attitude. Go ahead an place me firmly in the F KM camp.

 

[football karma]

you know what would be ironic:

if it turns out Kylers problem is that he studies so much now that his brain is locked up by information during the game.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think this is the best example of the biggest issue Kyler has. Not reading defenses and not adjusting his reads based on what he is seeing.

So obviously Kyler knows what is coming on this play and he knows that the defense is in man because of the rare display of pre snap motion. Brown is running a short hitch. Moore is staying in the flat. Both at the bottom of the screen. Green is running a 10 yard hitch at the top and from inline McBride is running something akin to a wheel route up the sideline.

Now, when Moore moves pre snap it's clear as day that the best options are to Kyler's right, not his left. Both routes to his left are short yardage and there are a bunch of defenders down there because the safety walks down into the box pre snap and Mafe on the edge is clearly not going to rush the passer as he's in not in a rushing stance. So it's 4 vs 2 at the bottom of the screen.

To Kyler's left however it's 2 vs 1. At the very worst it could be 2 vs 2 if the Edge rusher drops off into coverage but he's showing he's going to rush and either way you have to fancy McBride vs Darrell Taylor. Eno also goes out into the flat and while the LB moves that way there is so much space out there to get yards. Eno with McBride out front could get 20 yards there and I'm sure there will be an audible in this play for Kyler to signal just that so McBride switches to run blocking on the same route. McBride is so wide open himself he could house the right pass.

All Kyler has to do is hold the ball another 2nd while under no pressure and wait for McBride to get open. Which he should know is going to happen. He doesn't even look to his right where ALL the yards are. He goes straight to the bottom of the screen which should be off the table all together.

I can't tell you how bad this is and it encapsulates what is wrong with Kyler perfectly. It's basic stuff. It's not even some exotic look that could confuse him. SMH.

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That was the one on the game thread we all said Eno was wide open but the angle we had you couldn't be sure because you couldn't see if there was a defender off camera. Clearly there isn't. That's just terrible.

He seems to lock on one side, when it was D Hop on the left you could sorta understand it but now it just makes no sense as said it was obvious before the snap how many defenders were on the right side and he knew pre snap that's where Eno was going too so he knew he had them outnumbered

 

[AZ Native]

I think Kyler is so concerned/afraid of contact that he doesn’t want to go through progressions so he dumps it off first possible chance. Many QBs will hang in there pocket KNOWING they will get lit up to make the correct read but not Kyler. Since last season I have been saying he is soft and I honestly hate suggesting that but to me it is obvious.

Yeah, Kurt used to wait until the last possible second for the play to develop and then get hit. Kyler is not made for that. And Kurt loved it when he saw a blitz coming because he knew someone would be open. Different animal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There’s guys open on every play in the NFL more or less. When NFL-caliber athletes that are running forward and know where they want to end up are being covered by guys running backwards and have to guess what the opposing player wants to do it inevitably is favored towards the offensive player. I’ll also definitely argue that some of the plays you say have open WR’s actually are “open” due to how tight the passing windows are in the NFL.

It’s up to the coaches and the players to train their eyes and develop the instincts to know who will be open and where. Long story short - something is broken. Kyler, Kliff who freaking knows who’s at fault. The curiosity is why Kyler has been hitting these plays for most of his NFL career and basically stopped doing so six games ago.

He stopped doing this last season during the atrocious 1-6 end to the year.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The difference with Nuk in the lineup is obvious, but an underrated aspect of our success last year was our offense worked when Connor/Maxxxx were healthy, because we could run the ball! Teams couldn't key on one option or the other because we had balance.

Now both are injured/ineffective and our offense looks obvious and inept.

 

[Shane]

you know what would be ironic:

if it turns out Kylers problem is that he studies so much now that his brain is locked up by information during the game.

Bahahahah

 

[football karma]

He stopped doing this last season during the atrocious 1-6 end to the year.

we will get rid of one variable thursday: DHop has been out during that same stretch.

as an example, the last play example Brit posted. Like what happens with DHop, the Seahawks biased coverage to Hollywood. Kyler still went to him.

In the past -- if a team rolled coverage Hopkins way, Kyler went to the one v one matchup elsewhere.

why that hasn't happened is a mystery

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The All 22 is out for the game and I have some time this week. Not a good combination.

It will take me some time to get through so I'll add to the thread as and when.

Just watching the first 2 drives the main issues are very obvious. Kyler give no time for plays to develop and only has 1 read. Even when under no pressure he's throwing the checkdown option immediately.

Let's start with this play. Because it's illustrative of the problems.

This is the 2nd drive of the game. Rondale Moore is lined up outside, with AJ Green inside at the top and Trey McBride is inline next to Beechum. Moore motions and the slot CB goes with him. Leaving Green 1 vs 1.

But McBride is running an outside route so Kyler should know pre snap that there is a high likelihood that he has 2 vs 1 at the top of the screen. He doesn't even look that way. He takes the snap and immediately dumps it off the Brown for 6 yards despite zero pressure.

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What is wrong with this play? Absolutely nothing. McBride didn't stop at the soft spot in the zone where it would have been a 15 yard gain. He ran an out which was covered by the safety. Kyler did a GOOD job here with this read.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This is the very next play.

This is what we see from above. The ball really should have been out much sooner to Brown.

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This is the look from behind Kyler. As you can see he pulls the pass because Ertz crosses his eyeline but Brown is already 6 yards behind Ertz and considering where the ball needs to go to lead Brown Ertz isn't a factor. Instead he throws late and he throws high and behind Brown.

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I'll give you the first one. The ball could have been out sooner. Still a catchable ball, but not a great throw by Kyler at all. It was high.

 

[kerouac9]

What is wrong with this play? Absolutely nothing. McBride didn't stop at the soft spot in the zone where it would have been a 15 yard gain. He ran an out which was covered by the safety. Kyler did a GOOD job here with this read.

In the NFL you don't stop your route in the zone if it's not the design. In Kyler could have hit McBride in stride.

He also could have hit the back where he has 20 yards of open space in front of him.

Kyler elected to throw it to the guy with the most defenders and the fewest blockers around him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

In the NFL you don't stop your route in the zone if it's not the design. In Kyler could have hit McBride in stride.

He also could have hit the back where he has 20 yards of open space in front of him.

Kyler elected to throw it to the guy with the most defenders and the fewest blockers around him.

I know you don't, and that's my point. That's why it wasn't a bad play. A 6 yard gain on the first play from scrimmage is a win.

 

[BritCard]

What is wrong with this play? Absolutely nothing. McBride didn't stop at the soft spot in the zone where it would have been a 15 yard gain. He ran an out which was covered by the safety. Kyler did a GOOD job here with this read.

LOL no. All the no's.

For one it's man coverage. Not zone.

And Kyler didn't even look.

And this is the 6th play of the 3rd drive. Not the 1st play.

 

[BritCard]

In the NFL you don't stop your route in the zone if it's not the design. In Kyler could have hit McBride in stride.

He also could have hit the back where he has 20 yards of open space in front of him.

Kyler elected to throw it to the guy with the most defenders and the fewest blockers around him.

He didn't even look that way so how would he know what McBride did or didn't do?

 

[slanidrac16]

AWESOME POST. This should be sent to the local tv sports news.

And I feel dumb. My apologies go out to Kingsbury. Poor execution by Kyler’s are leading to 2nd and 3rd and long situations. Easy first downs are being left all over the field.

Now I’m convinced Kyler needs to be benched at some point if he continues to perform like this.
Kyler doesn’t have time. HA! Yes he doesn’t have time to decide what to do 3 seconds after the snap.
He clearly can’t read pre snap and apparently defense are able to give him the look THEY want him to see.
Three plus years into this career and offense and Kyler just don’t get it. We are in trouble.

Yeah, Kurt used to wait until the last possible second for the play to develop and then get hit. Kyler is not made for that. And Kurt loved it when he saw a blitz coming because he knew someone would be open. Different animal.

Kurt knew what he was going to do as soon as the defense got set. Kyler doesn’t recognize what’s going on until it’s too late. He waits for receivers to get open instead of throwing them open.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

LOL no. All the no's.

For one it's man coverage. Not zone.

And Kyler didn't even look.

And this is the 6th play of the 3rd drive. Not the 1st play.

Yes. All of the yes's.

A QB isn't required to go through ALL of their progressions, on every pass. You don't need to, or should you go through all progressions if the one you see is a good one. (which it was) You like to beat this drum about Kyler not going through is progressions, and on some occasions you have a point, just not this one.

Even taking this as an example by the time Kyler would have gone through is progression, McBride wouldn't have been as open as he was, because the defender gets back into position. The only way he would have seemingly satisfied your thought process on this catch, is if he started his progressions on the right hand side first instead of the left. Seeing McBride but not looking the other way to his left. The problem that you are saying is a problem, but isn't.

For the record, when you said this was the 'first play,' I assumed you meant that it was the first play of the game, not the first one you wanted to discuss. So that's on me for assuming.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

He didn't even look that way so how would he know what McBride did or didn't do?

Read above.

 

[daves]

Even taking this as an example by the time Kyler would have gone through is progression, McBride wouldn't have been as open as he was, because the defender gets back into position. The only way he would have seemingly satisfied your thought process on this catch, is if he started his progressions on the right hand side first instead of the left.

But this seems to be exactly the problem. Given the numbers of receivers & defenders on each side of the formation, Kyler's pre-snap read should've caused him to look right first. That is, if he were actually making aviate pre-snap reads.

BTW, GREAT job breaking down these plays, @BritCard !

...dave

 

[dreamcastrocks]

But this seems to be exactly the problem. Given the numbers of receivers & defenders on each side of the formation, Kyler's pre-snap read should've caused him to look right first. That is, if he were actually making aviate pre-snap reads.

BTW, GREAT job breaking down these plays, @BritCard !

...dave

Any side with AJ Green on it, shouldn't be your first read. All joking aside, the play did exactly what it was designed to do, pull two defenders to Rondale Moore, creating a soft spot in the zone that was on the left hand side. Kyler did exactly what was asked of him (by some here) in the last breakdown. Make your pre-snap read, see the man open and throw it to him. He did all of those things.

He should pass up an open play, because there could be an open play on the other side of the field? Tell me how that makes sense.

I keep having the need to defend Kyler and his play, when it is the last thing I want to be doing. If Kyler did MORE of what he just did in that play, the offense would be clicking better.

 

[BritCard]

A QB isn't required to go through ALL of their progressions, on every pass. You don't need to, or should you go through all progressions if the one you see is a good one. (which it was) You like to beat this drum about Kyler not going through is progressions, and on some occasions you have a point, just not this one.

Even taking this as an example by the time Kyler would have gone through is progression, McBride wouldn't have been as open as he was, because the defender gets back into position. The only way he would have seemingly satisfied your thought process on this catch, is if he started his progressions on the right hand side first instead of the left. Seeing McBride but not looking the other way to his left. The problem that you are saying is a problem, but isn't.

Well thanks, that's my point.

A QB isn't required to go through all of his progressions but HE decides what his progressions are based on the defense. That's what "reading a defense" is.

So knowing the play he is running and looking at the way the defense is set up his 1st read should not be to throw to Brown in 4 vs 2 coverage. It should not be to throw to Moore in 4 vs 2 coverage. Both plays that will get a few yards at best even if they are completed considering that there are 4 defenders.

Seeing what this defense is doing pre snap his 1st read should be McBride. His 2nd read should be Green (purely because he's in the vicinity of McBride so it's an easy read) and his 3rd read should be Eno. That's where ALL the yards are. You have 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 2 on that side of the field.

Brown should be the 4th option on this play, not 1st. But Kyler should have no need to come down to his left considering the option he has to his right.

But he ONLY looks left. He should ONLY be looking right.

This is what you pay $45m for. Literally any QB can say "I'm just going to throw to Brown for 5 yards no matter what the defense is doing". We could get Chase Daniels to do that. We could get Mike Glennon to do that. We could drag Drew Stanton out of his grave to do that.

The reason you pay top level quarterbacks all that money is because they look at what a defense is doing and shift their reads based on that to get the maximum potential out of every play. And that isn't happening at all.

And this isn't a difficult one. This is garbage defense by Seattle. 75% of quarterbacks in the league would look at the way Seattle are set up and say "This is gold dust. Easy 30 yard play here".

 

[BritCard]

He should pass up an open play, because there could be an open play on the other side of the field? Tell me how that makes sense.

Because any dollar store QB can make quick 5 yard checkdowns.

If there is an open play that it going to get you 5 yards and an open play that is going to get you 30 yards it's the QB's job to make that call pre snap and choose the play that gets you closest to scoring.

If you choose 5 yards over 30 yards that's bad quarterback play, and literally is why he has the worst YPA in the league of any starting quarterback.

The 2nd worse starter in the league is Baker Mayfield and he's a whole half a yard ahead of Kyler. And he's on a new team in a new offense!

If this was 30 yards out from the end zone and McBride was flying untouched into the EZ for a certain TD and he checked it down to Brown for 5 yards would you say "Good play Kyler"?

 

[Phrazbit]

What’s funny is how often he actually has a clean pocket in these and yet so many people claim that he never had any time to throw

There are a lot of QB apologists in the NFL and their protection is always the biggest excuse. I, tragically, know a lot of Bears fans, most of them admit that Fields sucks, but the ones that don't blame it the O-line, backing their belief by how often Fields gets sacked... during the same game this debate was going on a stat was featured showing that Fields leads the league in sacks taken while also leading the league in time before throwing.

Yikes.

Saw much of the same here a while back... 'twas argued that Kolb only sucked because his line sucked... then Skelton takes over and is basically unsackable, he constantly was getting throws off towards open guys... problem was he missed them by 10 feet because he had the accuracy of a toddler at a urinal.

 

[FXMaster]

This is the next drive. After 2 run plays it's 3rd down and something like 7.

I'm not sure what he's doing here. His shopping list? Thinking about the new COD?

He has multiple options. He has, at the very worst, Moore open in the flat with an outside chance to get 1st down.

He has Hollywood wide open on the go route. And he has AJ green open on a go route. Everyone is open except Ertz and there's the problem. Because Kyler already decided pre snap he was throwing to Ertz. Nobody else exists.

All you have to do to stop Kyler is guess who his favored option will be depending on down and distance.

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Went back and paused these to see the early development. Stopped this one at 18.06 sec. Looks can be deceiving. This looks like 2 line men telling their QB that the left side is bangin on this one. 1 of them is standing turning his head to talk directly at him. Caption that pic. "Hey Kyler. Look at the big empty chunk of green over here."