Cardinals Seahawks: The everything wrong with Kyler thread

[ASUCHRIS]

Daddy pulling the strings would be a huge concern. Kyler has to look in the mirror and see that he's stagnant, and his peers are passing him by. At some point, Dad's program might not be the answer anymore.

 

[Chopper0080]

Someone has to go, and it isn't the guy who you get an over $80 million dead cap hit.

It's kind of like how in a perfect world, NATO would directly intervene in Ukraine, but realpolitik is that you can't.

If you KNEW Kliff wasn't the problem and 100% a real top 10 NFL HC, you would get rid of Kyler. Unfortunately, this isn't the case.

 

[QuebecCard]

You encapsulate my feelings exactly.

Pretty every time you see a film breakdown of Kyler, it's pretty much exactly like this: there are plays Kyler just isn't making! And it's a constant thing.

This is why I don't fault Kliff's offense...we see a lot of plays with open receivers for big gains. I fault Kliff's game management, sure, but his greatest strength is being wasted by a QB who isn't executing the offense.

What we see and what the QB sees at ground level are two very different perspectives and time constraints.

I'm a big Formula One fan and once had the rare opportunity of going around the Montreal Grand Prix course in a two-seater driven by a former Indy driver, Scott Goodyear. Two feet from the ground at high speed, barely seeing the curves, gave me a new appreciation.

 

[AZfaninMN]

Not to argue just curious how do analysts know when Kyler intends to throw?

If he is forced to throw the ball because of pressure and it results in an incomplete pass, the defense is credited with a hurry. Basically if he is forced out of the pocket or throws an incomplete pass due to pressure, he is hurried. Accompany that with 2.2 seconds in the pocket on average indicates the offensive line is playing well below average.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kyler is becoming a punchline

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Guys… Kyler’s been a punchline since that Rams playoff game. What he’s getting closer to is a laughingstock.

 

[Russ Smith]

I disagree with this statement. Kliff has shown that he is incapable of reaching Kyler Murray and he can't overcome Kyler's poor QB play. The best thing for Kliff would be to have an OC so he could show he can improve on the other things when he doesn't have to focus all of his attention on Kyler.

Kliff isn't actually a HC he's in charge of the offense and Vance runs the defense the problem is Kliff is also the guy that controls the clock, timeouts, when to challenge etc because he's in name the head coach. and we have 4 seasons now of data of him not being good at that stuff.

Again there's actual video of him saying into Kyler's headset, "clock it" then after Kyler clocks it they realize it's 4th down and he turns to the guy next to him and says "what down is it?" That's why we did that everyone jumped to blame Kyler, who also should have checked with the line markers etc, but the coach was actually telling him to clock it because the coach didn't know. at that point in the game there is way more going on for the QB on the field than the standing on the sideline literally feet from a ref he can ask hey what down is it.

That's why Orlovsky after that game was saying I can't believe this guy is still a coach. You look at how bad they've been since the GB loss last year, and you see stuff like this and you have to ask how is he still a coach. Orlovsky's rationale was simple, if Kliff hadn't just been extended he would have been fired after the Eagles game.

 

[Chopper0080]

Daddy pulling the strings would be a huge concern. Kyler has to look in the mirror and see that he's stagnant, and his peers are passing him by. At some point, Dad's program might not be the answer anymore.

Kyler can retire after two more seasons and he will still have collected 160 mil

 

[BritCard]

Someone has to go, and it isn't the guy who you get an over $80 million dead cap hit.

It's kind of like how in a perfect world, NATO would directly intervene in Ukraine, but realpolitik is that you can't.

Nobody has to go. I'd rather do something to fix the issue than make a token sacrifice that probably makes things worse.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kliff isn't actually a HC he's in charge of the offense and Vance runs the defense the problem is Kliff is also the guy that controls the clock, timeouts, when to challenge etc because he's in name the head coach. and we have 4 seasons now of data of him not being good at that stuff.

Again there's actual video of him saying into Kyler's headset, "clock it" then after Kyler clocks it they realize it's 4th down and he turns to the guy next to him and says "what down is it?" That's why we did that everyone jumped to blame Kyler, who also should have checked with the line markers etc, but the coach was actually telling him to clock it because the coach didn't know. at that point in the game there is way more going on for the QB on the field than the standing on the sideline literally feet from a ref he can ask hey what down is it.

That's why Orlovsky after that game was saying I can't believe this guy is still a coach. You look at how bad they've been since the GB loss last year, and you see stuff like this and you have to ask how is he still a coach. Orlovsky's rationale was simple, if Kliff hadn't just been extended he would have been fired after the Eagles game.

...Or as Colin Cowherd said, people inside the Cardinals organization know what Kliff is dealing with.

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree with this statement. Kliff has shown that he is incapable of reaching Kyler Murray and he can't overcome Kyler's poor QB play. The best thing for Kliff would be to have an OC so he could show he can improve on the other things when he doesn't have to focus all of his attention on Kyler.

Yeah. I don’t think you can actually show that if your QB is self-immolating.

Everyone is at the facility day and night; the front office knows if Kliff is putting in the work.

 

[Chopper0080]

Kliff isn't actually a HC he's in charge of the offense and Vance runs the defense the problem is Kliff is also the guy that controls the clock, timeouts, when to challenge etc because he's in name the head coach. and we have 4 seasons now of data of him not being good at that stuff.

Again there's actual video of him saying into Kyler's headset, "clock it" then after Kyler clocks it they realize it's 4th down and he turns to the guy next to him and says "what down is it?" That's why we did that everyone jumped to blame Kyler, who also should have checked with the line markers etc, but the coach was actually telling him to clock it because the coach didn't know. at that point in the game there is way more going on for the QB on the field than the standing on the sideline literally feet from a ref he can ask hey what down is it.

That's why Orlovsky after that game was saying I can't believe this guy is still a coach. You look at how bad they've been since the GB loss last year, and you see stuff like this and you have to ask how is he still a coach. Orlovsky's rationale was simple, if Kliff hadn't just been extended he would have been fired after the Eagles game.

I understand what you are saying. My point is that Kliff's issues are blown up because he babies Kyler so much. If he had an OC, he would be able to show if he can get these things right because he wouldn't be so focused on Kyler.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Nobody has to go. I'd rather do something to fix the issue than make a token sacrifice that probably makes things worse.

But if Kyler just isn't listening to Kliff, that alone is a reason to fire him.

 

[football karma]

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this is interesting. Kylers looking at the same film we are...

 

[DVontel]

If Kliff had a history of success, it would be much harder to let him go.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Nobody has to go. I'd rather do something to fix the issue than make a token sacrifice that probably makes things worse.

Trust me, I mostly think Kliff is a quality offensive guy.

His game management is a bit suspect, but he can draw up some plays.

But you have to factor in his relationship to Kyler, the face of the franchise, and if Kyler can't get better with Kliff, the Cardinals would be dumb to not move on.

 

[Krangodnzr]

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this is interesting. Kylers looking at the same film we are...

Yeah Murray, you have to make more throws guy...take some personal responsibility.

 

[BritCard]

What we see and what the QB sees at ground level are two very different perspectives and time constraints.

I'm a big Formula One fan and once had the rare opportunity of going around the Montreal Grand Prix course in a two-seater driven by a former Indy driver, Scott Goodyear. Two feet from the ground at high speed, barely seeing the curves, gave me a new appreciation.

But when you drive 2 ft from the ground at 150mph for a job it becomes 2nd nature.

 

[football karma]

Yeah Murray, you have to make more throws guy...take some personal responsibility.

i would have felt better about that quote if he had said that he had to get the ball to open guys...... but baby steps

 

[AZfaninMN]

Hurries are part of the pressure percentage so I know for a fact its not an issue.

I've literally just watched every play of Kyler being clean 90% of the time.

There is no O line issue. It's a desperate straw to clutch.

Where do you find these pressure percentages? I can’t find them anywhere. I found the hurried rate and time within the pocket, which I provided a link. Can you do the same or do I just take your word? Also if he had a clean pocket 90% of the time in a game where he was sacked 6 times then he must have dropped back to pass 60+ times last week? Since neither is true can you provide me with those stats as well for his pressures this past week. Fantasy pros, which I found on the hurry rate hasn’t done the hurry rates for the late games or Sunday/Monday nights games yet(I’m guessing because they have 0 hurries and 0.0 pocket time listed for Kyler.)

 

[BritCard]

But if Kyler just isn't listening to Kliff, that alone is a reason to fire him.

Kyler won't listen to anyone. Firing Kliff just adds a whole bunch of problems.

In fact, I don't think Kyler knows how good he has it. I think he'd soon greatly regret Kliff not being there.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don’t doubt that at all but they had to have other quarterback coaches on staff

Maybe A&M did but OU didn't. I can't find their staff for that year but Riley is the coach at USC now and he's also the QB coach, they have some guy on staff named Will Harriger who is an offensive assistant, passing game coordinator and assistant QB coach and that's been his title a couple of other places too. Most college programs don't have a dedicated QB coach it's why you often see college guys have private coaches not just in HS but in college. Guys like Steve Clarkson are all over the country getting paid to do personal QB coaching for guys already in college. But Kylers dad is a QB coach so I seriously doubt he's ever had a 1 on 1 QB coach that wasn't his dad. And that's not meant to be an insult it's just what the truth is.

Arians was a QB guru and even he had a guy on staff much of the time that just worked with the QB. When he was hired we were told Kliff was a QB guru because he'd worked with Mahomes, Mayfield, Manziel, Case Keenum etc. I personally would say only one of those guys entered the NFL as well coached QBs, Keenum. Mahomes just has a once in a lifetime amount of physical talent but the reason he wasn't the first overall pick is everyone saw how "raw" he was. Mayfield and Manziel similar they were great college QB's but they weren't well coached guys and it showed when they got to the NFL.

Maybe Kliff is good at calling plays, but he doesn't seem to be good at mentoring a QB and that is what Kyler desperately needs. He's a broken QB right now

 

[QuebecCard]

But when you drive 2 ft from the ground at 150mph for a job it becomes 2nd nature.

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that those who are judging what KM should see are doing it from a crow's nest perspective.

 

[BritCard]

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this is interesting. Kylers looking at the same film we are...

The little things WE need to clean up are near all things HE needs to clean up

 

[Russ Smith]

...Or as Colin Cowherd said, people inside the Cardinals organization know what Kliff is dealing with.

OK but how does that relate to the head coach not knowing what down it is at such a critical point in the game? That's what Orlovsky was talking about, yes it was confusing did Kyler get the first or not you can't ask for a measurement because of the clock etc but the coach is in charge there he HAS to know. If he's not sure ask the ref standing right by him hey was that a first down or not. He didn't he assumed it was and said clock it.

It's not the first time he's been that out of touch at the end of a game.

I'm not saying Kyler isn't a big part of the problem but I completely agree with Orlovsky, if we hadn't extended Kliff, he'd be unemployed right now

 

[BritCard]

Where do you find these pressure percentages? I can’t find them anywhere. I found the hurried rate and time within the pocket, which I provided a link. Can you do the same or do I just take your word? Also if he had a clean pocket 90% of the time in a game where he was sacked 6 times then he must have dropped back to pass 60+ times last week? Since neither is true can you provide me with those stats as well for his pressures this past week. Fantasy pros, which I found on the hurry rate hasn’t done the hurry rates for the late games or Sunday/Monday nights games yet(I’m guessing because they have 0 hurries and 0.0 pocket time listed for Kyler.)

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