Cards All in on Matty

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,697
Reaction score
30,544
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. The bottom line is whether or not the team can win games with Leinart at QB. I don't think Leinart can get the job done.

As for your comment saying I hate Leinart, you really are way off base and 100% wrong. I would love nothing more than to see him play like the QB we thought we had when Arizona drafted him, I'm just not seeing it.

So, the fact that I've refuted pretty much all of your assertions about Leinart's performance the past 12 months or so doesn't give you any pause to reconsider your opinion? Because those opinions are not based on facts?

Are you somehow related to Matt? Maybe his girlfriend? Come on, I would love more than anything to see Matt Leinart produce for the Cardinals. What I've seen from Matt the last few years when he enters a game is a QB that gives up on deep routes way to quickly and dumps the ball off 4 or 5 yards to a RB. Sure, this helps his pass percentage but it doesn't move the yard sticks or put points on the board. Matt has 14 career TD passes to go along with his 20 career interceptions, not a very good percentage no matter how you spin it.

Bottom line, Matt doesn't look comfortable at QB, he plays like he is scared. His pass accuracy seems to be good when he throws the ball less than 10 yards, not so good when he throws down the middle of the field. Again, I hope he proves me wrong, but he needs to do it soon or he will be gone.

The Cards are 6-10 with Leinart as a starter. Do you know that Matt Leinart only has 16 career starts? Isn't it a little early to bury the career of a Top 10 pick after 10 starts and 624 career attempts? Even JaMarcus Russell got 25 starts and 750 attempts before the Raiders gave up on him, and Russell showed far less in game time.
 

Reddog

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
2,807
Reaction score
323
Location
Scottsdale
Well lets see coach Whiz calls off a TD in practice to see how KURT WARNER, Josh Mcnown, Peyton Manning, Jeff Blake, Max Hall or whomever else you want to place in their responds!

I know how I'de respond, I would rather play somewhere else like Q, Rolle, Dansby and others! or retire like Kurt Warner or Bertrand Berry. Thats wrong man.

Lets switch up the oline after a SB and playoffs together to see Matt's response? sound like a plan!.

Or better yet lets throw a bomb to a rookie FA WR we started in place of others on 3rd and 1, so We can see how our young QB responds to coaching stupidity in front of a national MNF audiance, that pulled our QB apart by by the limbs on MNcountdown moments before.........
.

Calm down Mrs. Lienart
 
OP
OP
THESMEL

THESMEL

Smushdown! Take it like a fan!
Joined
May 21, 2010
Posts
5,968
Reaction score
1,160
Location
Vernon
alone

am I the only one that watches races for the wrecks? yea I paid to see that. remember Theisman, AHHGGG. I still have nightmares about Monday Night Meltdown! I was so into the Matt Leinart era starting in Arizona.

I 'm so glad the Kurt Warner Era happened after his shakey start in AZ, remember Josh started in front of Kurt a couple times! count your blessing and remember your history. spoiled this fanbase is not. at least I'm happy Matt is here at all.

I have him graded borderline elite because He has no glaring weaknesses at 6'5" and 232 lbs. He is not the best in the NFL at any one QB skill set besides maybe rolling right or left and passing on the run accurate enough. But he is not the worse at any one QB skill set either,

Matt is 2 years away from his prime in experience with playtime Kurt earned, it wasn't given away. But Matt is great enouggh to go all the way now with the core skill players of Fitz and Beanie and our SB/playoff oline that if it aint broke don't fix it.

Matts draft scout
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/415213

Leinart is one of the elite performers in the collegiate ranks. He was the unquestioned leader of the most dominating team in the country and led the squad in its quest for a third consecutive national title. The left-handed quarterback recovered from left elbow surgery that forced him to miss 2005 spring drills. He also dealt well with the loss of his mentor, offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who left for the same position in the NFL with the Tennessee Titans.


AnalysisPositives: Has an athletic frame and while not overly muscled, he has good thigh and calf thickness, long arms, large hands and good mobility in the pocket … Has the foot work needed to get to his throwing point quickly … Has a compact release, keeping the ball high to unleash deep tosses with ease … Puts good velocity behind his tosses and is good at getting the ball over the outside shoulder of his target … Displays good touch and timing on his passes, showing good improvement in waiting for plays to develop rather than forcing the ball into a crowd in 2004 … Cool under pressure and has enough short area speed to step up to avoid the pass rush … Has good command on the field and in the huddle … His short touch allows him to hit his receivers in stride … Gets good trajectory and velocity behind his long throws … Makes good adjustment calls at the line of scrimmage and shows a good feel for the edge rush and inside blitzes … Does a good job of looking off his primary target to locate the secondary receivers … Has enough mobility to roll out in either direction … Runs with a normal stride, building to top speed on occasions when he runs with the ball … Has the leg strength to break tackles … Good decision maker who will absorb a few hits while waiting for his targets to get open. Negatives: Further medical evaluation is needed on his left arm (elbow) … Has good short area mobility, but lacks the second gear needed to elude when running with the ball … Patient in the pocket, but is not a threat as a ball carrier … When he does roll out in the pocket, he needs to do a better job of protecting the ball … Will wave the ball around and does not secure it before trying to run up field, resulting in a few fumbles … Has functional arm strength, but will hang the ball up at times when trying to fire deep over the middle.



You certainly have a way with words.
 

southern card

Newbie
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Posts
29
Reaction score
0
Some people need to stop and take a breath. At what time since he has been here has our coach seemed concerned with WINNING in the preseason. The Colts have been the most successful team in the league and how many games have they won in the preseason the past few seasons. the Cardinals see Matt in practice every single day and yet made no attempt at any QB available this off season. If the team wanted McNabb they could have got him yet choose not to wonder why. I have the utmost faith in our coach and his staff. They have earned our trust. Lets see how the team plays when it counts and I believe we will be very pleased. So relax and quit ridding Matt like a cheap circus pony.
 
OP
OP
THESMEL

THESMEL

Smushdown! Take it like a fan!
Joined
May 21, 2010
Posts
5,968
Reaction score
1,160
Location
Vernon
breath

breathing fire at ESPN, NFLN is owned by the NFL, with friends like them who needs enemies. they are exactly wrong all of the time about the Cardinals, and they never watch a cards game before they report the "news"

Some people need to stop and take a breath. At what time since he has been here has our coach seemed concerned with WINNING in the preseason. The Colts have been the most successful team in the league and how many games have they won in the preseason the past few seasons. the Cardinals see Matt in practice every single day and yet made no attempt at any QB available this off season. If the team wanted McNabb they could have got him yet choose not to wonder why. I have the utmost faith in our coach and his staff. They have earned our trust. Lets see how the team plays when it counts and I believe we will be very pleased. So relax and quit ridding Matt like a cheap circus pony.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
92,214
Reaction score
70,498
I think he's upset with the way the Monday night crew had nothing but praise for the Titans and nothing but scorn for the Cards. I really didn't expect that from Gruden, but he was as bad as the other two.

one team usually get praised and the other pounded when late in the fourth quarter the score is 24-3.

the only thing that sucked last night was us.
 

Derm

slippery when wet
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
2,113
Reaction score
0
Location
Tempe - home of the AZ Cardinals
THESMEL - I hope that you're not just now figuring out that ESPN is nothing more than a glorified gossip column. They are the new school media of "if it bleeds, it leads". Winning is one way to have them **** but if you don't listen or if you know that they're just a bunch of morons with mikes, then it works just the same.
ESPN blows, but so do most other sports writers. I ignore guys like Bickley (our version of a Big Lots ESPN) because I am a Cardinal fan (without the Kool-Aid) and I could care less what the all-mighty media has to say. Metaphorically speaking; I'd piss on their graves but I don't like standing in lines.
 

conraddobler

I want my 2$
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Posts
20,052
Reaction score
237
I don't think Matt could get less respect if he was caught betting on his team to lose with video evidence of him handing the ball to the other team twice for a touchdown.
 

Bobcat

Registered User
Joined
Oct 11, 2002
Posts
1,969
Reaction score
2
Location
Glendale, Arizona
How are Matt and Beanie being treated like punks ?

Whiz is a very poor motivator when it comes to Young QB's Just ask Big Ben. Whiz instead of motivating Matt has done everything in his power to discourage Matt. I have never heard him praise Matt only some back handed compliments. He has never been in Matt's corner.

Please just knew that this was going to happen. but what gets me is why when Donavon McNabb wanted to come here an play Whiz passed. Then when we had a chance to get Mark B. Whiz passed again. He would have been the perfect Warner replacement. Similar passing stiles, same coach coached them with the Ram's.

If you look at Matt's face before and after he enters the game he looks like a man who has lost his center. Thank you Whiz way to help destroy a potentially franchise QB into a "DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS OF A MAC TRUCK."

BOBCAT

 

desertrat218

Veteran
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Posts
278
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
So, the fact that I've refuted pretty much all of your assertions about Leinart's performance the past 12 months or so doesn't give you any pause to reconsider your opinion? Because those opinions are not based on facts?



The Cards are 6-10 with Leinart as a starter. Do you know that Matt Leinart only has 16 career starts? Isn't it a little early to bury the career of a Top 10 pick after 10 starts and 624 career attempts? Even JaMarcus Russell got 25 starts and 750 attempts before the Raiders gave up on him, and Russell showed far less in game time.


I really don't appreciate your condescending approach to this. Apparently you refuse to acknowledge what I keep repeating, the man looks like he is scared out there. He does not look capable of leading this team, there is a certain quality he simply hasn't shown me. You seem overly impressed with his career QB rating of 70 and his 14 TDs to 20 interceptions ratio. I remain unimpressed by these "facts"!
 

joeshmo

Kangol Hat Aficionado
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
17,247
Reaction score
1
Whiz is a very poor motivator when it comes to Young QB's Just ask Big Ben.

Because Big Ben wasn't a complete jackass who's current HC is quoted as saying this year "he is finally growing up". Or the fact that they won a super bowl together. I mean it isn't like anyone else past and present has had a problem with Ben on and off the field. Not exactly the greatest of examples for you to use in this case.

Please just knew that this was going to happen. but what gets me is why when Donavon McNabb wanted to come here an play Whiz passed. Then when we had a chance to get Mark B. Whiz passed again. He would have been the perfect Warner replacement. Similar passing stiles, same coach coached them with the Ram's.

I don't want to let facts stop this debate but, you have zero idea if it was Wiz who passed on McNabb or if it was the FO who didn't want to trade for a 34 year old QB on a 1 year contract who has never played in any system other then the QB friendly Philly West Coast O. As for Bulger the story goes that the coaches still wanted to get Bulger even after they asked the FO to sign Anderson, after they asked the FO to trade a starting CB for a 5th round rookie. By all accounts it was the FO who told Wiz "NO" on Bulger.
 

Crazy Canuck

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
10,077
Reaction score
0
THESMEL - I hope that you're not just now figuring out that ESPN is nothing more than a glorified gossip column. They are the new school media of "if it bleeds, it leads". Winning is one way to have them **** but if you don't listen or if you know that they're just a bunch of morons with mikes, then it works just the same.
ESPN blows, but so do most other sports writers. I ignore guys like Bickley (our version of a Big Lots ESPN) because I am a Cardinal fan (without the Kool-Aid) and I could care less what the all-mighty media has to say. Metaphorically speaking; I'd piss on their graves but I don't like standing in lines.

Nothing "new" about this approach. It has always been thus.
 

RonF

Per Ardua Ad Astra
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
2,090
Reaction score
4
Location
Sun City, AZ
Mike Lombardi was on the Doug and Wolf show this morning and his comment about Matt Leinart was a reference to Bill Parcells who said, "when a player shows you who he is, believe him." He believes that keeping Leinart would be a mistake and to go with Derek who can get the ball downfield to Fritz and keep Hall and Skelton.

It is what it is and the controversy isn't going away soon. IMO, Leinart has had many opportunities over the past few years but unfortunately, hasn't shown the skills he needs to get the ball downfield.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,697
Reaction score
30,544
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Mike Lombardi was on the Doug and Wolf show this morning and his comment about Matt Leinart was a reference to Bill Parcells who said, "when a player shows you who he is, believe him." He believes that keeping Leinart would be a mistake and to go with Derek who can get the ball downfield to Fritz and keep Hall and Skelton.

It is what it is and the controversy isn't going away soon. IMO, Leinart has had many opportunities over the past few years but unfortunately, hasn't shown the skills he needs to get the ball downfield.

In two seasons of mop up duty Aaron Rogers put up QB ratings of 39.8 and 48.2. Combined he averaged 3.6 yards per attempt and ended up on IR twice.

I'm not sure that a handful of mop up appearances is a great predictor of future performance. On the other hand, in his one start the past two years, he put the team in the position to win until the defense couldn't stop the NFL's 23rd-ranked passing offense from going 99 yards to win the game.
 
Last edited:

desertrat218

Veteran
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Posts
278
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
In two seasons of mop up duty Aaron Rogers put up QB ratings of 39.8 and 48.2. Combined he averaged 3.6 yards per attempt and ended up on IR twice.

I'm not sure that a handful of mop up appearances is a great predictor of future performance. On the other hand, in his one start the past two years, he put the team in the position to win until the defense couldn't stop the NFL's 23rd-ranked passing defense from going 99 yards to win the game.

17 points is not going to win you many football games.
 

Crazy Canuck

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
10,077
Reaction score
0
In two seasons of mop up duty Aaron Rogers put up QB ratings of 39.8 and 48.2. Combined he averaged 3.6 yards per attempt and ended up on IR twice.

I'm not sure that a handful of mop up appearances is a great predictor of future performance. On the other hand, in his one start the past two years, he put the team in the position to win until the defense couldn't stop the NFL's 23rd-ranked passing defense from going 99 yards to win the game.

Offence
 
OP
OP
THESMEL

THESMEL

Smushdown! Take it like a fan!
Joined
May 21, 2010
Posts
5,968
Reaction score
1,160
Location
Vernon
watch

Well I love you man, but Matt put up 300 yards in the 2nd half of the GB preseason game last year, I've watched it on DVR 3 times this offseason and I will tell you without a doubt that He can toss it 50 yards in the air with elite touch,

He can roll right or left and throw it accurate with zip anyplace on the field. He makes great decisions and shows patients and will stand in and take the hit as needed to complete a pass, even if it risks a shoulder seperation or a broken collar bone for our entertainment.

He hit BJ in stride on a pass thrown more than 50 yards in the air and he tossed it with ease. Matt is cool under pressure flipping a TD to Edge creating not managing offense.

Matt has no glaring weakness in any QB skill set and has been under the bright lights with USC and MNM. He has seen the best and the worse football has to offer, watching KW be booed of the field in 06, have 7 turnovers in a half and try to come back against the jets, go on and get hot behind Edge to the SB, another devastaing DEFENSIVE LOSS! Matt has experienced defensive losses in the nFL from every angle.

Matt is not the best ,yet, at any one NFL QB skill set but He is above average for a feller thats 6'5" 232 at all of them. except 1!

He needs to remember he is the one quater back and he is a member of the backfield- not the receiving corp, or the oline, He is not on an island as a unit by himself. He is member of the backfield with THT-The Bean- LSH-Wright- full back- and even if Whiz practices and plays at 70% pass again and neuters the run game- that is Matty's tribe and they need to get it down pat on automatic pilot! the run game comes first and Matt is a very athletic 6-5 232 lb QB, He needs to run and block and be in the way at times, this needs developed as priority againsts Whiz's will or not.

They need to practice every down on the run game before they ever concern themself with the forward pass, butter without bread sucks as a meal!


Mike Lombardi was on the Doug and Wolf show this morning and his comment about Matt Leinart was a reference to Bill Parcells who said, "when a player shows you who he is, believe him." He believes that keeping Leinart would be a mistake and to go with Derek who can get the ball downfield to Fritz and keep Hall and Skelton.

It is what it is and the controversy isn't going away soon. IMO, Leinart has had many opportunities over the past few years but unfortunately, hasn't shown the skills he needs to get the ball downfield.
 

Doc Cardinal

Old Fart
Joined
Dec 12, 2004
Posts
1,807
Reaction score
0
Location
Ohio
In two seasons of mop up duty Aaron Rogers put up QB ratings of 39.8 and 48.2. Combined he averaged 3.6 yards per attempt and ended up on IR twice.

I'm not sure that a handful of mop up appearances is a great predictor of future performance. On the other hand, in his one start the past two years, he put the team in the position to win until the defense couldn't stop the NFL's 23rd-ranked passing offense from going 99 yards to win the game.

Post of the month.
 

Crazy Canuck

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
10,077
Reaction score
0
Actually, the point is that it DIDN'T win the game.

Given that the Cards were beat on a last second TD, after a 99 yard drive, which included a couple of 4th down conversions, you're going to have a hard time laying this loss at Matt's doorstep.
 

desertrat218

Veteran
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Posts
278
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
Given that the Cards were beat on a last second TD, after a 99 yard drive, which included a couple of 4th down conversions, you're going to have a hard time laying this loss at Matt's doorstep.

Score less than 20 points in an NFL game, you are going to lose the majority of the time. I'm not sure why this is even up for debate. Perhaps my expectations are just higher than other people? I saw this team play in the Super Bowl and almost win it just 2 seasons ago, I know what the team is capable of with a good QB and I want more of that.

As I've said repeatedly, I would love nothing more than to see Leinart prove me wrong. There is more to playing QB than having a strong arm. More than 50% of a QB's success rides on how he handles himself in the huddle. Do his teammates believe in him and respect him? Without that he simply won't succeed.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
556,554
Posts
5,436,643
Members
6,330
Latest member
Trainwreck20
Top