Cards cut Hoyer.

[kerouac9]

Unless you're the 1966 Baltimore Colts who rode halfback turned emergency QB Tom Matte to success in the NFL Playoff game against Dallas after the Unitas & Gary Cuozzo got hurt.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1078093/index.htm

Or, I guess, T.J. Yates, but, again, he was the only "new" QB in camp, behind Matt Schaub and Leinart, who'd had a full year in the system at that point.

 

[desertdawg]

Hoyer isn't worth the money Graves gave him. Probably isn't worth the money the Browns gave him. Skelton and Lindley made him look NFL worthy, but Hoyer was cut during the season (by the hoodie) for a reason, or probably a couple reasons. The hoodie needed a spot on his dress up roster, and got rid of someone he didn't plan on ever needing. And the only reason he was still there was because maybe the hoodie thought he could get a draft pick or some kind of compensation for him. Hoodie didn't get jack for Hoyer, we didn't get jack for Hoyer, Browns won't ever get jack for Hoyer. Lindley is worse though, thing is.... we won't see him on the field though. I think the days of starting 4 or 5 different QBs every season is over. Last in rushing attempts...over. Worst O-line in the last 3 years...over.

I'm sure we will face new problems and all, but those three things made me turn on Whiz like a monkey with new found testicles. That guy lost his grip, he never realized Warner made his offensive offense work, and that only a handful of QBs can play like that....yet he continued to gamble on late rounders, undrafted midgets, and guys getting cut from other teams after the race had started.

I wish we gave Lindley the boot too, but I don't see him getting any gametime so akuna matada.

 

[Sleepy]

Hoyer isn't worth the money Graves gave him. Probably isn't worth the money the Browns gave him. Skelton and Lindley made him look NFL worthy, but Hoyer was cut during the season (by the hoodie) for a reason, or probably a couple reasons. The hoodie needed a spot on his dress up roster, and got rid of someone he didn't plan on ever needing. And the only reason he was still there was because maybe the hoodie thought he could get a draft pick or some kind of compensation for him. Hoodie didn't get jack for Hoyer, we didn't get jack for Hoyer, Browns won't ever get jack for Hoyer. Lindley is worse though, thing is.... we won't see him on the field though. I think the days of starting 4 or 5 different QBs every season is over. Last in rushing attempts...over. Worst O-line in the last 3 years...over.

I'm sure we will face new problems and all, but those three things made me turn on Whiz like a monkey with new found testicles. That guy lost his grip, he never realized Warner made his offensive offense work, and that only a handful of QBs can play like that....yet he continued to gamble on late rounders, undrafted midgets, and guys getting cut from other teams after the race had started.

I wish we gave Lindley the boot too, but I don't see him getting any gametime so akuna matada.

You sir are awesome.

 

[john h]

Again you have to ask why now? Wouldn't it have the same effect during TC? Seems this would indicate they are thinking about bringing in another player. Or it could be that Arians means what he says when he talks about not splitting reps among QBs and doesn't feel the need to have 4 guys in camp.

The odd thing is why have they kept Lindley who was beyond horrible last season while cutting Kolb, Skelton, and Hoyer who were all better?

Keep the payroll down to pay for some of the guys like Dansby we are signing.

 

[Russ Smith]

So now we have Palmer, Stanton and Lindley.

Does anyone else think Lindley is even worth putting time, money, and effort into?

He's not making much, he won't get tons of reps during the season and he has an NFL arm.

He was obviously overwhelmed last year but they weren't going to pay Hoyer that much and they'd seen enough of the other 2 guys. the one guy Arians hadn't seen enough to be sure he was NOT going to help going forward was Lindley. We still might see him cut if someone else pops loose we like better.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hoyer did look better than Lindley, but not two million better.

Besides, it looks like Keim wants to see if Lindley can produce a miracle for BA by suddenly producing accurate passes better than his college career average of 55%. Sure Lindley throws a beautiful pass that has a little pop when it gets there. Unfortunately when it gets there, it usually gets there to a defensive player.

BA is NOT going to make the same stupid and idiotic mistake that Whisenhunt did when Whisenhunt thought that a beautifully passed football equaled accuracy and that a QB with a college career completion average of 55% could magically morph into a NFL passer with a completion average over 62% just because he was in your stilted QB development program that ruined Leinart, Hall, and Skelton.

I hear Lindley seems to be a nice guy, but unless he can show significant and marked improvement on his accuracy AND decision making, Lindley will soon hear from the Turk and end up following Hoyer out the door.

He didn't waste a high pick on him or pay him a lot or pass over a better player because he had him. The biggest mistake Whiz made with Lindley IMO was playing him too soon but he did that for a reason, Kolb was hurt and he was tired of watching the guy who actually won the starting job go out there week after week not prepared to play.

He decided to send a message, it may have cost him his job but he did it, I can at least like that he did that. And any idea that he was grossly wrong with the message he was sending appears to have gone out the window when the guy he sent the message too was waived by the new bosses, and then he accepted a new job 2 days later without any guarantee he was going to have any chance to compete for a starting job. He left saying he should have been the starter and in 2 days he'd figured out there were no NFL teams that agreed with him and signed with the Bengals.

 

[Duckjake]

He didn't waste a high pick on him or pay him a lot or pass over a better player because he had him. The biggest mistake Whiz made with Lindley IMO was playing him too soon but he did that for a reason, Kolb was hurt and he was tired of watching the guy who actually won the starting job go out there week after week not prepared to play.

He decided to send a message, it may have cost him his job but he did it, I can at least like that he did that. And any idea that he was grossly wrong with the message he was sending appears to have gone out the window when the guy he sent the message too was waived by the new bosses, and then he accepted a new job 2 days later without any guarantee he was going to have any chance to compete for a starting job. He left saying he should have been the starter and in 2 days he'd figured out there were no NFL teams that agreed with him and signed with the Bengals.

Are you talking about Skelton? He was claimed on waivers so he didn't have any choice but to sign with the Bengals as he wasn't a free agent. So how could what you wrote be true? As usual I'm confused.

 

[Russ Smith]

Are you talking about Skelton? He was claimed on waivers so he didn't have any choice but to sign with the Bengals as he wasn't a free agent. So how could what you wrote be true? As usual I'm confused.

When Skelton left he said he was unhappy with how things panned out and that he felt he should have been the starter and it wasn't handled correctly. Then he goes and gets claimed by the Bengals who say he's insurance behind Dalton. If Skelton really believes he's a starter he could have asked to be traded or asked to be waived again to get a chance to start.

The entire NFL had a chance to sign him and the team that chose to do so, openly admits they don't see him as a starter. That reinforced the opinion of Whiz and his staff, and Arians and his staff, that Skelton isn't currently an NFL starter despite him openly saying he was. that included teams who went into the draft knowing they wanted to take a QB, and yet chose to pass on Skelton in waivers.

And remember Whiz declared he WAS an NFL starter not even a year ago, that was a pretty big about face in a short time.

A big factor for Skelton going forward IMO is to realize what he actually is, if he still thinks he can be a starter, he has to put in much more effort to get there. I don't think Skelton got that until he got waived and then saw in 2 days that the team who claimed him, had no intention of giving him an audition to start.

I think he gets that now.

 

[kerouac9]

When Skelton left he said he was unhappy with how things panned out and that he felt he should have been the starter and it wasn't handled correctly. Then he goes and gets claimed by the Bengals who say he's insurance behind Dalton. If Skelton really believes he's a starter he could have asked to be traded or asked to be waived again to get a chance to start.

The entire NFL had a chance to sign him and the team that chose to do so, openly admits they don't see him as a starter. That reinforced the opinion of Whiz and his staff, and Arians and his staff, that Skelton isn't currently an NFL starter despite him openly saying he was. that included teams who went into the draft knowing they wanted to take a QB, and yet chose to pass on Skelton in waivers.

And remember Whiz declared he WAS an NFL starter not even a year ago, that was a pretty big about face in a short time.

A big factor for Skelton going forward IMO is to realize what he actually is, if he still thinks he can be a starter, he has to put in much more effort to get there. I don't think Skelton got that until he got waived and then saw in 2 days that the team who claimed him, had no intention of giving him an audition to start.

I think he gets that now.

Wow. You need to let go of whatever ill will you have with John Skelton. There are 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL, and in the ballpark of 85 active roster QB jobs in the NFL overall. You're carrying a pretty serious grudge against the guy if you feel like he should have passed over a camp job from a team that definitely wants him to hock his wares around the NFL.

My read from Skelton is that he should have been the starter for the terrible 2012 Arizona Cardinals team instead of Ryan Lindley and probably Brian Hoyer. I never got the impression that Skelton thought that he might be better than any other starting QB than maybe Blaine Gabbert or Mark Sanchez.

 

[Duckjake]

Wow. You need to let go of whatever ill will you have with John Skelton. There are 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL, and in the ballpark of 85 active roster QB jobs in the NFL overall. You're carrying a pretty serious grudge against the guy if you feel like he should have passed over a camp job from a team that definitely wants him to hock his wares around the NFL.

My read from Skelton is that he should have been the starter for the terrible 2012 Arizona Cardinals team instead of Ryan Lindley and probably Brian Hoyer. I never got the impression that Skelton thought that he might be better than any other starting QB than maybe Blaine Gabbert or Mark Sanchez.

No kidding. The Bengals claimed Skelton on waivers. He had no choice as to where he would go. Maybe he did ask to be traded but what NFL player has a say in where he goes to play if he's not a free agent? Maybe the Cards put Skelton on waivers instead of releasing him outright so they could try to trade him but the Bengals claimed him. Who knows? The only way he could have passed over the Bengals job was to retire! And since this will be the final year of his rookie deal he'll get to hock his wares around the NFL next Spring after getting paid $650,000 for 2013.

It's like what people used to say about Leinart after Warner became the solid starter. If he said he wanted to be a starter and asked to be traded he was a whiner and needed to keep his mouth shut but if he didn't say anything it was an indication that he didn't want the job badly enough.

 

[Russ Smith]

Wow. You need to let go of whatever ill will you have with John Skelton. There are 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL, and in the ballpark of 85 active roster QB jobs in the NFL overall. You're carrying a pretty serious grudge against the guy if you feel like he should have passed over a camp job from a team that definitely wants him to hock his wares around the NFL.

My read from Skelton is that he should have been the starter for the terrible 2012 Arizona Cardinals team instead of Ryan Lindley and probably Brian Hoyer. I never got the impression that Skelton thought that he might be better than any other starting QB than maybe Blaine Gabbert or Mark Sanchez.

You know what my point is, Skelton found out after being waived what the NFL actually thinks of him. not one team was interested in bringing him in to compete for the starting job. If he really thinks he's a starter, as he said after we cut him, he should be unhappy with his current situation. I don't think he is because I think Skelton learned something at the end of his Cardinal career, it wasn't just Whiz who didn't think he was an NFL starter, it was also Arians, and now he knows it's the other NFL teams.

I wasn't actually suggesting Skelton ask the Bengals to cut him so he can start for Jacksonville or someone else I was saying if he really believes he was wronged in Arizona, he has a chance to prove it now. Play well enough with the Bengals that someone else wants to get him.

Skelton lost his job because he wasn't ready to play and Whiz got tired of it. Whiz lost his job because he didn't have another QB ready and capable of taking over and he put a guy in there who clearly wasn't and he performed terribly. Skelton at the end made some comments that suggested he felt it was personal and that he wasn't given the opportunity he deserved to get the starting job back. I think the actions of the NFL since that time have proven Skelton was wrong. Whiz' staff gave up on him, Arians staff decided they weren't interested, and the team that claimed him on waivers said they want him to compete with Josh Johnson as a backup and they think he has a chance to be a solid NFL backup.

Lindley wasn't ready and that was a mistake Whiz paid for with his job, but I don't think he did it because he fell in love with Lindley's arm and ignored his numbers in college(as the post I originally replied to suggested), I think he did it because he was tired of Skelton going on the field not ready to play. he was tired of key 3rd down plays being screwed up because a rookie WR lined up on the wrong side of the field, Skelton didn't notice, and ran the play with the entire sideline screaming at him to move the WR or call timeout. I don't think Whiz was idiotic with Lindley, he didn't think Lindley was ready he just had seen enough of Skelton.

 

[Russ Smith]

No kidding. The Bengals claimed Skelton on waivers. He had no choice as to where he would go. Maybe he did ask to be traded but what NFL player has a say in where he goes to play if he's not a free agent? Maybe the Cards put Skelton on waivers instead of releasing him outright so they could try to trade him but the Bengals claimed him. Who knows? The only way he could have passed over the Bengals job was to retire! And since this will be the final year of his rookie deal he'll get to hock his wares around the NFL next Spring after getting paid $650,000 for 2013.

It's like what people used to say about Leinart after Warner became the solid starter. If he said he wanted to be a starter and asked to be traded he was a whiner and needed to keep his mouth shut but if he didn't say anything it was an indication that he didn't want the job badly enough.

The Cards presumably tried to trade Skelton before they waived him, that's what you'd normally do with a QB who had starting experience but that you just didn't think was right for you. Nobody traded for him so they waived him.

He had 2 NFL coaching staffs in a matter of months decide he wasn't the guy, and then after being waived his agent openly said they were told the Bengals want him to compete for the #2 spot and the coach said we believe John can be a valuable backup QB in the NFL. Like I said I think by the time it was over Skelton learned something, that it wasn't just Ken Whisenhunt who wasn't impressed with how he handled being named the starting QB last season, in one year he managed to convince essentially the entire NFL that he was at best a backup.

 

[kerouac9]

The Cards presumably tried to trade Skelton before they waived him, that's what you'd normally do with a QB who had starting experience but that you just didn't think was right for you. Nobody traded for him so they waived him.

He had 2 NFL coaching staffs in a matter of months decide he wasn't the guy, and then after being waived his agent openly said they were told the Bengals want him to compete for the #2 spot and the coach said we believe John can be a valuable backup QB in the NFL. Like I said I think by the time it was over Skelton learned something, that it wasn't just Ken Whisenhunt who wasn't impressed with how he handled being named the starting QB last season, in one year he managed to convince essentially the entire NFL that he was at best a backup.

He was a 5th round pick from Fordham. No one in the NFL believed that he was a starter after 2 years in the NFL.

Yes, John Skelton failed Ken Whisenhunt. But Ken Whisenhunt also failed John Skelton by not adequately giving him the support to know how to prepare.

It's an unreasonable expectation on your part, IMO, to believe that John Skelton is solely responsible to learn how to acquit himself as an NFL player a year after being drafted out of the Patriot League with only Derek Anderson and Kevin Kolb as role models.

Perhaps he should have looked up "How to Prepare to Play Quarterback in the NFL" on Wikipedia or something.

 

[Russ Smith]

He was a 5th round pick from Fordham. No one in the NFL believed that he was a starter after 2 years in the NFL.

Yes, John Skelton failed Ken Whisenhunt. But Ken Whisenhunt also failed John Skelton by not adequately giving him the support to know how to prepare.

It's an unreasonable expectation on your part, IMO, to believe that John Skelton is solely responsible to learn how to acquit himself as an NFL player a year after being drafted out of the Patriot League with only Derek Anderson and Kevin Kolb as role models.

Perhaps he should have looked up "How to Prepare to Play Quarterback in the NFL" on Wikipedia or something.

He was named the starter by an NFL coach, a guy who has coached a team in the Super Bowl and been in a high level position on another Super Bowl team. I don't think it's accurate to say nobody thought he was a starter, Whisenhunt apparently did. He was at least comfortable enough with him to make no other QB moves knowing Kolb's recent injury history.

Skelton himself said he thinks he's a starter and wasn't handled correctly in Arizona by Whisenhunt, I suspect he no longer believes that with quite as much conviction as he did a few months ago.

I have no idea what Whiz did or didn't teach Skelton but by the time it's your 3rd year in the NFL and 3rd year in the same progam with the same coach, and you're starting, after having been out injured(plenty of time to hit the books), I don't think it's unreasonable for a coach to expect his starting QB to know which side of the formation the rookie WR is supposed to be on.

One of the big selling points on Skelton as a prospect was how intelligent he was, unfortunately it didn't seem to translate over to the NFL very well. He never seemed to completely understand the offense and where everyone was supposed to be.

 

[kerouac9]

He was named the starter by an NFL coach, a guy who has coached a team in the Super Bowl and been in a high level position on another Super Bowl team. I don't think it's accurate to say nobody thought he was a starter, Whisenhunt apparently did. He was at least comfortable enough with him to make no other QB moves knowing Kolb's recent injury history.

Skelton himself said he thinks he's a starter and wasn't handled correctly in Arizona by Whisenhunt, I suspect he no longer believes that with quite as much conviction as he did a few months ago.

I have no idea what Whiz did or didn't teach Skelton but by the time it's your 3rd year in the NFL and 3rd year in the same progam with the same coach, and you're starting, after having been out injured(plenty of time to hit the books), I don't think it's unreasonable for a coach to expect his starting QB to know which side of the formation the rookie WR is supposed to be on.

One of the big selling points on Skelton as a prospect was how intelligent he was, unfortunately it didn't seem to translate over to the NFL very well. He never seemed to completely understand the offense and where everyone was supposed to be.

"Hit the books" aren't reps. He could have had a great intellectual understanding of the offense, but in the speed of the game not been able recognize and diagnose what he was seeing, from before the snap to after the INT return.

Think about the time that he was 3rd or 4th on the depth chart, injured and unable to practice, and then thrust into the starters' role, and I think you'd be surprised at how few reps Skelton really got in three years with the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[Duckjake]

The Cards presumably tried to trade Skelton before they waived him, that's what you'd normally do with a QB who had starting experience but that you just didn't think was right for you. Nobody traded for him so they waived him.

He had 2 NFL coaching staffs in a matter of months decide he wasn't the guy, and then after being waived his agent openly said they were told the Bengals want him to compete for the #2 spot and the coach said we believe John can be a valuable backup QB in the NFL. Like I said I think by the time it was over Skelton learned something, that it wasn't just Ken Whisenhunt who wasn't impressed with how he handled being named the starting QB last season, in one year he managed to convince essentially the entire NFL that he was at best a backup.

Presumably? There you go again making stuff up to support your obsessive hatred for John Skelton.

Who would want a player who didn't feel like he should be a starter in the NFL? You and nobody else I imagine. That he was actually claimed by a 2012 playoff team, not cleared and signed but claimed off waivers, makes your entire attack on him bogus. Nevermind that your original assertion that Skelton shopped himself around the NFL for 2 days and then settled for a backup job with the Bengals when he couldn't find a team willing to give him a shot at being #1 was totally false. He was claimed off the waiver wire and had no choice as to where he would go.

As for Whisenhunt his impressions of players got him fired. So he's a poor example. I'm withholding judgement on Arians as well since he first brought in Drew Stanton to be the Cardinals starting QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

Presumably? There you go again making stuff up to support your obsessive hatred for John Skelton.

Who would want a player who didn't feel like he should be a starter in the NFL? You and nobody else I imagine. That he was actually claimed by a 2012 playoff team, not cleared and signed but claimed off waivers, makes your entire attack on him bogus. Nevermind that your original assertion that Skelton shopped himself around the NFL for 2 days and then settled for a backup job with the Bengals when he couldn't find a team willing to give him a shot at being #1 was totally false. He was claimed off the waiver wire and had no choice as to where he would go.

As for Whisenhunt his impressions of players got him fired. So he's a poor example. I'm withholding judgement on Arians as well since he first brought in Drew Stanton to be the Cardinals starting QB.

I didn't say he shopped himself around the league for 2 days I said in 2 days he found out what the actual opinion of him was in the NFL when nobody wanted to even let him audition as a starter and he got signed by a team who very clearly said he's competing to be our backup. I jokingly said if he strongly believes he should be starting he should ask to be traded or released again so he can find a team that agrees with him.

I mean even Kolb had 3 teams interested in him who all wanted him to compete for the starting job.With all his injuries and poor play there were 3 NFL teams who actually considered him good enough to consider, not a single NFL team felt that way about Skelton. Claiming players off waivers goes in reverse order so if you are claimed by a playoff team, it means ALL the non playoff teams either chose not to claim you, or had just claimed someone else. Most of the the teams looking for QB's were non playoff teams, and none of them claimed Skelton.

In other words in 2 days John Skelton found out that nobody in the NFL agreed with his take that he was deserving of being the starter and that there were some personal issues in Arizona that led to him losing his job.

Teams try to trade players all the time before cutting them. If you look at the timing we essentially cut Skelton the same time we signed Hoyer to a one year deal and the same time rumors were rampant we were going to trade for Palmer. My guess is the entire NFL knew it was a matter of time for us to cut Skelton so if they did have any interest, they didn't need to trade for him. But there had been reports that both Skelton and Hoyer were available for trade, in particular Hoyer as it was fairly clear the Cards believed he was marketable.

I've said several times in this thread Whiz got fired for the way he handled the QB's, that doesn't mean he wasn't right about Skelton. Arians agreed he didn't want Skelton and the only NFL team that did, sees him as competition for Josh Johnson as a backup.

none of that is "made up."

I don't hate John Skelton but I do find it funny that people are somehow baffled the Cards kept Lindley of the guys on last years roster, he was the lowest paid, had the least amount of playing time, and thus was the one guy the team had not seen enough to have a firm opinion of. The others the firm opinion was, not good enough.

If Lindley is actually playing next year we're in trouble, but when the only real opening on the roster was #3 it was pretty obvious Lindley was the most likely returning guy to be kept. It was just as obvious Skelton wouldn't be back.

 

[Cardiac]

Fair assessment Russ.

I had hopes for Bones because he had very good pocket presence and didn't seem to get rattled at all. Big strong armed dude who is athletic, especially for his size.

As we got to see more of him the lack of "football IQ" became a concern for me. Lots of fans hated that Hall started B4 Bones but the obvious reason was Hall knew the playbook WAY better than Bones. The fact that Bones never really had a full grasp on the playbook is why he found himself being waived.

He was never able to simply let his physical abilities reach their potential because he was thinking (or his version of that) and not just throwing the ball. Maybe if he gets into a simpler offense and has a tudor with him 24/7 he can make a go of it.

 

[BigRedRage]

5 pages about skelton and hoyer. Please hurry up football season.

 

[Russ Smith]

as for the obsession with Skelton comment I've pointed it out before but apparently went unnoticed, it's not ME that is obsessed with the guy. A little ASFN search will reveal I hadn't mentioned his name in a post in 6 weeks, and before that since January.

Any idea how many times you have brought him up in that timeframe? I stopped counting at 60 when I did a quick ASFN search.