Cards Shuffle

[Mitch]

Mitch,
I agree with all of your assessments, yet I have to allow the new staff to see that for themselves. I'm confident that this will not be the lineup come training camp. There's no risk to Leinart or Edge at this time, so let them explore and learn. Maybe they are testing for depth. I'm also confident that we'll have a starting tackle with our first pick in the draft. I don't know who though.

Let's hope the new staff is not on the Dennis Green learning curve...where it took a 1-7 record and 2.8 ypc for changes to be made.

But this decision, IMO, shatters Whiz's and Grimm's credibility. You don't proclaim to want to play smashmouth football and put the weakest run blocker in at the most important smashmouth position, which is LG.

It's one thing for Whiz & Co. to lose credibility with us as fans, but what about losing credibility with the players? The players know that Reggie Wells sucked at guard. The players know that Oliver Ross has sucked worse at tackle. And, the players know that Mike Gandy was switched to guard last year because he struggled at tackle. Matt Leinart knows this---you can rest assured he does---think of how he feels right now--a tad more nervous, eh?

 

[40yearfan]

seriously just interested, and not trying to stir the pot, but when's the last time the cards made a major change and you did NOT feel that way? curious.

Dennis Green. I was somewhat leery of him from the start. He always reminded me of a big blowhard (kinda like Buddy Ryan) and we all know how Ryan did.

I was very much in favor of hiring Coach Mac. I think he would have done better if he had the talent Green assembled.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Let's hope the new staff is not on the Dennis Green learning curve...where it took a 1-7 record and 2.8 ypc for changes to be made.

But this decision, IMO, shatters Whiz's and Grimm's credibility. You don't proclaim to want to play smashmouth football and put the weakest run blocker in at the most important smashmouth position, which is LG.

It's one thing for Whiz & Co. to lose credibility with us as fans, but what about losing credibility with the players? The players know that Reggie Wells sucked at guard. The players know that Oliver Ross has sucked worse at tackle. And, the players know that Mike Gandy was switched to guard last year because he struggled at tackle. Matt Leinart knows this---you can rest assured he does---think of how he feels right now--a tad more nervous, eh?

You're usual hysterics, and in April at that... going into a voluntary mini-camp.

Please don't suggest that Whis and Grimm losing credibility with you, extends to all of us as fans, and the suggestion that you have insight into what players may think is laughable.

Why can't it be the simple fact that Brown is not available because of nuptials, and someone has to step in at left guard, and they picked Wells.

Big frakkin deal...

I'd say relax... but I know it's wasted on you.

I'll wait on Whis and Grimm to decide by the first week of September as to what 5, and where.

 

[CardShark]

Let's hope the new staff is not on the Dennis Green learning curve...where it took a 1-7 record and 2.8 ypc for changes to be made.

But this decision, IMO, shatters Whiz's and Grimm's credibility. You don't proclaim to want to play smashmouth football and put the weakest run blocker in at the most important smashmouth position, which is LG.

It's one thing for Whiz & Co. to lose credibility with us as fans, but what about losing credibility with the players? The players know that Reggie Wells sucked at guard. The players know that Oliver Ross has sucked worse at tackle. And, the players know that Mike Gandy was switched to guard last year because he struggled at tackle. Matt Leinart knows this---you can rest assured he does---think of how he feels right now--a tad more nervous, eh?

I don't think anyone takes as long as Green to see the light from the shadow of his own ego.

I don't think it shatters their credibility if they say the are testing the waters from the beginning. I really don't see us keeping all of the gaurds that we have, but we need to know who can fill in at tackle when needed. If that's the case, expect to see Gorin getting put into that position early. Just maybe Wells is at LG to fill in for Brown while he's away.

I fully expect the starting line for the first game to be as follows;

LT - first round pick
LG - M. Brown
C - Leckey
RG - Lutui
RT - Wells

LG is the position most up for grabs.

Of course this is all just speculation.

 

[Mitch]

You're usual hysterics, and in April at that... going into a voluntary mini-camp.

Please don't suggest that Whis and Grimm losing credibility with you, extends to all of us as fans, and the suggestion that you have insight into what players may think is laughable.

Why can't it be the simple fact that Brown is not available because of nuptials, and someone has to step in at left guard, and they picked Wells.

Big frakkin deal...

I'd say relax... but I know it's wasted on you.

I'll wait on Whis and Grimm to decide by the first week of September as to what 5, and where.

I didn't suggest the loss of credibility extends to ALL of us...obviously, you have faith that it will be time well spent trotting Ross and Gandy out as tackles and deciding that Reggie Wells man the LG position while Brown is getting married. That's your take, fine.

The players aren't fools...this is their profession...they know who is good where...just ask the Cardinal DTs how intimidated they are lining up over Reggie Wells...it's not wild speculation to reason that the players who face off against each other in practice know who is good and know who isn't.

 

[Redsz]

The lineup could change before the Cardinals open training camp in late July, Whisenhunt said.

Milford Brown, the starting left guard last year, is getting married this weekend and won't be at the minicamp. That is part of the motivation for moving Wells, but Brown already was in danger of losing his starting job.

Whether Wells stays at guard will be a "function of how the two tackles play, if we think Oliver can play left tackle and how Mike adjusts to the right side," Whisenhunt said.

These three quotes make me feel slightly better. It means that they haven't labeled Wells as a guard and his move is based on Brown not being there. It also suggests that they are going to evaluate Ross and Gandy at tackle and haven't finalised anything.

 

[BigRedArk]

Please don't suggest that Whis and Grimm losing credibility with you, extends to all of us as fans, and the suggestion that you have insight into what players may think is laughable.

If you've ever played football you have a pretty good idea of who can do what and who is best at which position among your teamates. Sometimes it's very obvious. Sometimes it's debatable. If your coach makes a boneheaded decision about the obvious one(s) then he can lose credibilty with you pretty quickly. Hopefully that won't be the case with Whis and this team but it is a legit concern at this point.

 

[CardShark]

If you've ever played football you have a pretty good idea of who can do what and who is best at which position among your teamates. Sometimes it's very obvious. Sometimes it's debatable. If your coach makes a bondheaded decision about the obvious one(s) then he can lose credibilty with you pretty quickly. Hopefully that won't be the case with Whis and this team but it is a legit concern at this point.

None of us know what they told the team. Until we are in the know, we need trust that they are doing things that will lead to the team being stronger and not be so reactionary to blurbs from the press. Let's see who they actually put out on the field. Whis wants his starting unit to be in place by training camp. Give him the time. I'm not concerned at this point at all. I will be concerned if we fail to draft one of the top 3 tackles in the draft though.

 

[Pariah]

we need trust that they are doing things that will lead to the team being stronger and not be so reactionary to blurbs from the press.

Why do I have to do that, again?

It's been proven time and again that our initial responses to these types of news aren't knee-jerk overreactions, but legitimate concerns. Until proven otherwise, I'll continue to be leery.

 

[CardShark]

Why do I have to do that, again?

It's been proven time and again that our initial responses to these types of news aren't knee-jerk overreactions, but legitimate concerns. Until proven otherwise, I'll continue to be leery.

At least wait until after the draft. I think that'll clear up the direction it's heading in.

 

[CardLogic]

Like most everyone, I don't like the news of musical OL. But just maybe...

FA's Gandy and Johnson were likely promised a shot at starting to convince them to sign with the Cardinals. Not promised a starting position for next season, mind you, just promised a shot at starting. Well, this could be their shot; it fullfills the obligation of the promise and is done at a time when it won't impact OL consistency for the season.

That's as good as any other explaination that any of us can come up with. Because when you get down to it: We are all just mushrooms! All we know is what they feed us...

 

[Zeno]

Dennis Green. I was somewhat leery of him from the start. He always reminded me of a big blowhard (kinda like Buddy Ryan) and we all know how Ryan did.

I was very much in favor of hiring Coach Mac. I think he would have done better if he had the talent Green assembled.

That alone speaks volumes. How anyone can even admit to that and not say..."I can't understand what I was thinking" is beyond me.

 

[vinnymac]

I am not going to tell everyone how to react or think about this subject. personally it is to early in the offseaosn to worry about what the line-up is. If you want to hit the panic button then go ahead. I will hit the panic if the cardinals get off to a horrible start.

 

[BigRedArk]

None of us know what they told the team. Until we are in the know, we need trust that they are doing things that will lead to the team being stronger and not be so reactionary to blurbs from the press. Let's see who they actually put out on the field. Whis wants his starting unit to be in place by training camp. Give him the time. I'm not concerned at this point at all. I will be concerned if we fail to draft one of the top 3 tackles in the draft though.

I'm not panicking but I'm not trusting either. On the surface moving Wells to G defies logic. It kind of seems like they are trying to fix what wasn't broke. Why this team can't put a decent OL on the field year after year is beyond me. I hope they know what they are doing but this isn't a good start. I am trying not to overreact but I am concerned.

 

[crisper57]

I'm not panicking but I'm not trusting either. On the surface moving Wells to G defies logic. It kind of seems like they are trying to fix what wasn't broke. Why this team can't put a decent OL on the field year after year is beyond me. I hope they know what they are doing but this isn't a good start. I am trying not to overreact but I am concerned.

I am not real sure how fast Wells is, but could he be at guard because Whiz utilizes a pulling guard alot? (I don't know if he does) Would he need someone faster than Brown for that purpose? I'm just trying to find a logical reason for the change.

 

[BigRedArk]

I am not real sure how fast Wells is, but could he be at guard because Whiz utilizes a pulling guard alot? (I don't know if he does) Would he need someone faster than Brown for that purpose? I'm just trying to find a logical reason for the change.

Good question. I dunno.

 

[Heucrazy]

I am not real sure how fast Wells is, but could he be at guard because Whiz utilizes a pulling guard alot? (I don't know if he does) Would he need someone faster than Brown for that purpose? I'm just trying to find a logical reason for the change.

No.

Because if that was the case then the coaches would know more than the posters on this board and we all know that just isn't true.

 

[Scot1]

You're usual hysterics, and in April at that... going into a voluntary mini-camp.

I'm sad to say it, but this statement about Mitch is simply ridiculous.

Year after year the half-glass-full folk say "Hooray, we've got new coaches, we've got more good players, the coaches say we are in much better shape," and year after year they have been wrong. Not just wrong, but ridiculously wrong. The coaching isn't just sub-par, it's the worst. The line isn't just sub-par, it's the worst. And the coaches and management talk in a way that isn't mere denial of reality--it's a flat-out mix of scum artist and psychotic. Whiz and co. come in, they should have observed this history or been told about it, and they act just the same way. "The OL is talented, Rolle can handle CB, and oh, by the way, the earth is flat and the Great Sea of Arizona has solved the drought."

I have a fair amount of hope left about Whiz and co. Maybe they're not psychotic. But till they prove something (anything!) or start talking sense, the overwhelming presumption is on the side of the glass-is-empty folk. Hysterics in April is the rational, realistic, well-informed response, and mockers of the hysterics are the real fools. And sadly, that's true even if the Cards go 12-4 in '07--nobody could rationally expect that.

 

[joeshmo]

I am not real sure how fast Wells is, but could he be at guard because Whiz utilizes a pulling guard alot? (I don't know if he does) Would he need someone faster than Brown for that purpose? I'm just trying to find a logical reason for the change.

I dont think that would be the reason IMO. All of Wiz run plays will not be to the outside though. And during those other runs Wells still has to hold up against much stronger tackles then himself on not just the run plays but pass plays as well. Considering that last year Pitt Ran the ball between the tackles about 75% of the time I am not sure Wiz uses the pulling guard very often, unless he drasticlly changes his play calling style.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

And Wells has trouble with big DTs .. he will not be able to get any push off the line at guard position ... while at RT he was able to use his quickness to work the DEs ..

This is how we are going to have a power running game .. ??

 

[Duckjake]

No.

Because if that was the case then the coaches would know more than the posters on this board and we all know that just isn't true.

Gene Stallings 23-34
Hank Kuhlman 0-5
Joe Bugel 20-44
Buddy Ryan 12-20
Vince Tobin 29-44
Dave McGinnis 17-40
Denny Green 16-32

I can't imagine why anyone would think those geniuses could know more than a hardcore fan. I mean how much do you really have to know about football to have your team finish dead last in both scoring defense and scoring offense in the same season or to get outscored 443-210.

Most of these guys get their jobs through the coaches good old boy network based on who they know as much or more so than on what they know.

We just witnessed 3 years of that with Denny Green.

 

[BigRedArk]

Most of these guys get their jobs through the coaches good old boy network based on who they know as much or more so than on what they know.QUOTE]

Much like the corporate world in America too unfortunately.

 

[Redsz]

From Somers Blog:

The o-line shuffle
04/09/2007 01:04 PM
Mike Jurecki had an interesting news nugget this morning on XTRA 910.

Jurecki talked to Ken Whisenhunt at Pat's Run last Saturday, and Whisenhunt told him that when minicamp opened Friday, the starting offensive line would be this:

LT Oliver Ross, LG Reggie Wells, C Al Johnson, RG Deuce Lutui and RT Mike Gandy.

That's a bit of a surprise, because Whisenhunt has said that Wells played very well at right tackle last year and it was important to protect Matt Leinart's blind side.

This is just the first lineup coaches will look at. There could be others. Gandy and Ross can play both tackles. Gandy and Wells can play tackle or guard, so there is considerable shuffling that could be done between now and the start of the season, Sept. 10.

 

[BACH]

Mike Jurecki had an interesting news nugget this morning on XTRA 910.

Jurecki talked to Ken Whisenhunt at Pat's Run last Saturday, and Whisenhunt told him that when minicamp opened Friday, the starting offensive line would be this:

LT Oliver Ross, LG Reggie Wells, C Al Johnson, RG Deuce Lutui and RT Mike Gandy.

That's a bit of a surprise, because Whisenhunt has said that Wells played very well at right tackle last year and it was important to protect Matt Leinart's blind side.

This is just the first lineup coaches will look at. There could be others. Gandy and Ross can play both tackles. Gandy and Wells can play tackle or guard, so there is considerable shuffling that could be done between now and the start of the season, Sept. 10.

My take on this... They're bluffing that the OL is set before the draft AND they want to test their new players.

Grimm has seen tons of films on Leckey and Wells and practiced with them on a daily basis since february. Now they want to test the new players, so Johnson takes over for Leckey and Gandy gets a shot at RT. Being the smartest and most versatile Wells takes over for Brown while he gets marriaged.

I'm extremely skeptical, but until the start of training Camp, I keeping my faith in the new coaching staff and the end Denny's mad player favoritism.

Here's what will happen IMO.

Gandy gets a chance to show his stuff at RT and he will fail. Wells is the RT!

Lutui is a lock at RG.

Johnson and Leckey will be in a huge battle for the starting C position. Johnson will win IMO.

After failing as a threat to Wells starting RT spot, Gandy fights Brown for the starting LG. Brown wins.

Ross is no surprise at LT at this point. Look at the films again. Ross isn't as bad as everyone makes him out to be. He's better than what Big showed us in the first half of last season, but not quite up to par with Big's perforamnce in the second half. Ross is not the long-term answer, but he is IMO good enough to start if we take Adams in the 1st, and ends up with Staley or Ugoh in the 2nd.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I didn't suggest the loss of credibility extends to ALL of us...obviously, you have faith that it will be time well spent trotting Ross and Gandy out as tackles and deciding that Reggie Wells man the LG position while Brown is getting married. That's your take, fine.

The players aren't fools...this is their profession...they know who is good where...just ask the Cardinal DTs how intimidated they are lining up over Reggie Wells...it's not wild speculation to reason that the players who face off against each other in practice know who is good and know who isn't.

No... why don't you ask the Card DTs, etc. given that you're the one making the assertions.

My point, is simply that I can't see why your bordering on a stroke over the O-line to be used in a 3 day, or so - VOLUNTARY camp.

If, come September - Wells is at left guard it will be because in Grimm's estimation he's best suited for the job. At that point, no doubt, you and others with vast experience coaching O-line's from the comfort of your living room will question Grimm's ability, sanity... (yada, yada)