Carson Palmer is Carson Palmer

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Palmer is playing exactly like Palmer has always played.

Not sure why people are shocked. He has been as good/bad as he always has been.

Palmer didn't win this game for the Cardinals, but he didn't lose it either.

That was a team loss.

I guess that's my point. But you also make a big statement there, he didn't win this game for the cardinals. I think a very good or great QB does.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Your one of the "some people"

Come talk to me after week one of the playoffs... I'll be happy to be wrong though

I'm not saying the Cardinals are Elite nor have I ever. I challenge you to find where I said the Cardinals are Elite.

They clearly have their warts on offense and defense. However there are no perfect teams in the NFL. Aside from the Packers and Patriots I wouldn't consider any other teams Elite.

Listen if the Cardinals win the NFC west they are garenteed a home playoff game. You don't think a healthy Cardinals team has a chance to win a playoff game at home???

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm just laying out my opinion. We moved the ball up and down the field on them and left a lot of points on the board by not tapping a toe not making fgs forcing passes late in the game. My point is we had 3 TO that led to 17 points compared to their 0 TO and still had a chance to win.

Some of you act like the TOs don't count. I don't get it. We turned TE ball over three times. That's part of us NOT dominating the game.

 

[Shane]

I guess that's my point. But you also make a big statement there, he didn't win this game for the cardinals. I think a very good or great QB does.

100%

No doubt in my mind Brady, Big Ben, previous year P. Manning, Eli, maybe even Phillip Rivers cash in and bring one of those games in the W column... Probably both

 

[Cheesebeef]

he's a good QB, not an elite one. so goes the QB, so goes the team, who is at the same level.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Yeah that's my point. With this team warner would be in charge of a Suoerbowl capable team.

People seem to forget that Warner had one or two 4 INT stinkers every year.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Some of you act like the TOs don't count. I don't get it. We turned TE ball over three times. That's part of us NOT dominating the game.

Yep. That is the reason the Cardinals lost 2 tames this year. You typically don't win if you lose the turnover battle. Especially when you are on the road.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

IIRC, the Cards were 9-7 and 10-6 during the regular season in the Warner playoff years.

I'll wait and see on that call.

This team is much more talented and better coached IMO

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not saying the Cardinals are Elite nor have I ever. I challenge you to find where I said the Cardinals are Elite.

They clearly have their warts on offense and defense. However there are no perfect teams in the NFL. Aside from the Packers and Patriots I wouldn't consider any other teams Elite.

Listen if the Cardinals win the NFC west they are garenteed a home playoff game. You don't think a healthy Cardinals team has a chance to win a playoff game at home???

I do. But it depends against whom. We are a good team, but not great.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

100%

No doubt in my mind Brady, Big Ben, previous year P. Manning, Eli, maybe even Phillip Rivers cash in and bring one of those games in the W column... Probably both

Bingo

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep. That is the reason the Cardinals lost 2 tames this year. You typically don't win if you lose the turnover battle. Especially when you are on the road.

We didn't not only "not win the TO battle," we got obliterated 0-7.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I do. But it depends against whom. We are a good team, but not great.

I think the Cardinals biggest weakness is their lack of a pass rush. Good QBs will eventually be able to disect the Cardinals D. If the offense doesn't take care of business then the team as a whole is in a world of hurt. We don't have an top teir defense that can keep them in games when the O struggles like in years past.

So as the offense goes so does the Cardinals IMO.

 

[MadCardDisease]

We didn't not only "not win the TO battle," we got obliterated 0-7.

Rigth and the silver lining if there is one... The Cardinals were in both of those games with a chance to win even though being 0-7 in the turnover battle. So it's not all doom and gloom at this point.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Rigth and the silver lining if there is one... The Cardinals were in both of those games with a chance to win even though being 0-7 in the turnover battle. So it's not all doom and gloom at this point.

But that's the point of my thread, they were right in them, in a position to win. Ball in QB's hands both times. And Palmer made bad decisions BOTH times. And that's the bulk of his history.

I'm not saying he's bad. I'm not saying he's mediocre. I'm not even saying he's not, perhaps, the second best QB we've ever had in the desert (discounting Lomax's brief appearance). But I am saying I can't call him good until I see the balls to finish a game when it's riding on his decision making ability.

 

[cardpa]

Think about this, what if Manning had signed with the Cardinals and we never had Palmer. Where would we be now? Manning is stinking it up in Denver. If they didn't have such a good defense they would be no where near undefeated, maybe 3-3 at best. I would take Palmer any day over Manning right now.

Manning has a 7/10 TD to INT ratio and a 72.5 rating and only converted 26/86 3rd downs.
Palmer has a 14/5 TD to INT ratio and a 106.9 rating and has converted 24/63 3rd downs.

Almost everyone wanted Manning here. Did anyone else see the INT Manning threw in OT. It was terrible, a wounded duck, more like a dead duck. Yes Palmer needs to stop with the forced throws to Brown but overall he hasn't played that bad.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Think about this, what if Manning had signed with the Cardinals and we never had Palmer. Where would we be now? Manning is stinking it up in Denver. If they didn't have such a good defense they would be no where near undefeated, maybe 3-3 at best. I would take Palmer any day over Manning right now.

Manning has a 7/10 TD to INT ratio and a 72.5 rating and only converted 26/86 3rd downs.
Palmer has a 14/5 TD to INT ratio and a 106.9 rating and has converted 24/63 3rd downs.

Almost everyone wanted Manning here. Did anyone else see the INT Manning threw in OT. It was terrible, a wounded duck, more like a dead duck. Yes Palmer needs to stop with the forced throws to Brown but overall he hasn't played that bad.

we might have won the Super Bowl by now if Manning was the QB for the 2013 squad who had an INCREDIBLE defense. But, he probably would have saved Wiz's job, which means we'd still have that group around. who knows.

 

[kerouac9]

Comparing Warner and Palmer is a fool's errand. They're not comparable. Warner put up occaisional stink bombs where it was clear from the outset that he wasn't going to be able to compete, and you'd turn off the TV in the first quarter.

Palmer's good enough to keep you hanging around for 3.5 quarters before he drops a dagger right in your heart by making a terrible error while still giving 25+ points to your fantasy team and looking good on the stat sheet.

I guess you feel more comfortable with Warner knowing for sure that he can win in January. I think it's too soon to start really having that conversation. What we can say is that the narrative that Palmer went into a cocoon for 9 weeks at the beginning of 2013 and emerged a changed quarterback capable of throws 4:1 TD:INT ratios probably wasn't a real thing.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

But that's the point of my thread, they were right in them, in a position to win. Ball in QB's hands both times. And Palmer made bad decisions BOTH times. And that's the bulk of his history.

I'm not saying he's bad. I'm not saying he's mediocre. I'm not even saying he's not, perhaps, the second best QB we've ever had in the desert (discounting Lomax's brief appearance). But I am saying I can't call him good until I see the balls to finish a game when it's riding on his decision making ability.

That's not his history with the Cardinals. I went back and looked and the only two times CP has failed to get the job done are these last 2 times.

Year 1:
Palmer led the Cards from 7 down with less than 4 minutes left at TB to win 13-10. A TD pass to Fitz with 3:12 left and the Feely kicked game winner as time expired.

Loss 23-20 in season finale. However, with 1:45 and 1 TO, Palmer took the Cards 74 yards in 1:16 for the game tying FG. Too bad Dawson kicked a 56 yarder for SF at the end.

Threw a 31 yard TD to Floyd with 2:13 left to beat SB bound Seattle 17-10 in week 15.

Those were really the only games where CP realistically had make or break drives at/near the end of the game. Other games were blowouts, Cards had big leads and held on, or no real chance of win/loss on the line at the end.

I already mentioned last year's 2 big plays that were game winners.

Agreed, he's failed to convert this year but he's 5-2 overall in those situations as a Cardinal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's not his history with the Cardinals. I went back and looked and the only two times CP has failed to get the job done are these last 2 times.

Year 1:
Palmer led the Cards from 7 down with less than 4 minutes left at TB to win 13-10. A TD pass to Fitz with 3:12 left and the Feely kicked game winner as time expired.

Loss 23-20 in season finale. However, with 1:45 and 1 TO, Palmer took the Cards 74 yards in 1:16 for the game tying FG. Too bad Dawson kicked a 56 yarder for SF at the end.

Threw a 31 yard TD to Floyd with 2:13 left to beat SB bound Seattle 17-10 in week 15.

Those were really the only games where CP realistically had make or break drives at/near the end of the game. Other games were blowouts, Cards had big leads and held on, or no real chance of win/loss on the line at the end.

I already mentioned last year's 2 big plays that were game winners.

Agreed, he's failed to convert this year but he's 5-2 overall in those situations as a Cardinal.

wrong. Palmer had a chance to lead us back against the Eagles in 2013 when we were down 24-21 and did nothing with the ball, including an AWFUL pass at the feet of Andre Roberts who had no one within 30 yards of him on 2nd down. He blew it there.

and in game 1 against the Rams, we were tied late in the 4th, when Palmer had the ball, starting at the 45 yard line and again, did nothing with it, airmailing a wide-open Ellington on a wheel-route that would have won gotten us AT LEAST to FG range, if not scored a TD outright and won the game.

That brings him to 5-4. A little above average... which is what Palmer pretty much is.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

wrong. Palmer had a chance to lead us back against the Eagles in 2013 when we were down 24-21 and did nothing with the ball, including an AWFUL pass at the feet of Andre Roberts who had no one within 30 yards of him on 2nd down. He blew it there.

and in game 1 against the Rams, we were tied late in the 4th, when Palmer had the ball, starting at the 45 yard line and again, did nothing with it, airmailing a wide-open Ellington on a wheel-route that would have won gotten us AT LEAST to FG range, if not scored a TD outright and won the game.

That brings him to 5-4. A little above average... which is what Palmer pretty much is.

I missed the Eagles game, you're right there.

The Rams game is different. They had an 11 point lead starting the 4th. They got the ball back at the 20 with 40 seconds left and no timeouts after Zeurlein hit a FG. They were never in a comeback situation. They started their 4th quarter drives at the 12, 20, and 33 and were never trailing until 40 seconds remained.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Rigth and the silver lining if there is one... The Cardinals were in both of those games with a chance to win even though being 0-7 in the turnover battle. So it's not all doom and gloom at this point.

But they didn't win. We find ourselves in that position again, what's going to happen? Looks like a loss. And games against good teams are going to be closer to these two than the other four.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I missed the Eagles game, you're right there.

The Rams game is different. They had an 11 point lead starting the 4th. They got the ball back at the 20 with 40 seconds left and no timeouts after Zeurlein hit a FG. They were never in a comeback situation. They started their 4th quarter drives at the 12, 20, and 33 and were never trailing until 40 seconds remained.

wait... it has to be a comeback situation? Why not just a game-winning drive situation? The game was tied with under 5 minutes left and we had the ball and Palmer didn't get it done, throwing an awful pass to a wide-open streaking Ellington. We punt and the Rams go down and beat us. And even with 40 seconds left, only down 3, Palmer again did NOTHING. He had a chance to win the game with a drive with under 5 minutes and blew it and then did nothing with the ball again with 40 seconds left. Not sure how that doesn't count at failing to get the job done.

 

[kerouac9]

It's almost like games decided by a TD or less are a 50/50 proposition. That can't be right. It's about heart and nonsense.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

wait... it has to be a comeback situation? Why not just a game-winning drive situation? The game was tied with under 5 minutes left and we had the ball and Palmer didn't get it done, throwing an awful pass to a wide-open streaking Ellington. We punt and the Rams go down and beat us. And even with 40 seconds left, only down 3, Palmer again did NOTHING. He had a chance to win the game with a drive with under 5 minutes and blew it and then did nothing with the ball again with 40 seconds left. Not sure how that doesn't count at failing to get the job done.

I guess if you want to blame Palmer for blowing an 11 point fourth quarter lead and doing nothing with 40 seconds left, and no TO(hence I said realistically earlier) then so be it.

 

[kerouac9]

I guess if you want to blame Palmer for blowing an 11 point fourth quarter lead and doing nothing with 40 seconds left, and no TO(hence I said realistically earlier) then so be it.

I dunno. That game was a long time ago, but this drive chart from the entire 4th quarter isn't, like, hugely confidence-inspiring:

8 4 12:56 CRD 12 5 2:18 10 Fumble View Drive »
9 4 9:04 CRD 20 8 3:49 26 Punt View Drive »
10 4 3:10 CRD 33 3 1:25 8 Punt View Drive »
11 4 0:40 CRD 20 3 0:40 23 End of Game View Drive »