Chiefs Release Breaston

[Totally_Red]

That is really the Jeopardy answer in the form of a question.

 

[Chopper0080]

Just kind of a quibble, but I think that the Cards did a fine job drafting and developing replacements for Breaston (Andre Roberts), Branch (David Carter), and Antonio Smith (Calais Campbell), not to mention Karlos Dansby (Daryl Washington). Where they've failed is in finding the key positions that any NFL team needs to be successful: Quarterback, Pass Rusher, Left tackle.

The Cards have even been okay at drafting and holding on to cornerbacks, which would be the 4th item on my list. They even got a fine running back (not in the sense of "fine dining" as much as when your wife says that your Valentine's Day gift was "fine") in Tim Hightower, but then proceeded to sit on their balls by drafting Ryan Williams and deciding that he was going to be an upgrade immediately.

That is fair.

 

[Duckjake]

Just kind of a quibble, but I think that the Cards did a fine job drafting and developing replacements for Breaston (Andre Roberts), Branch (David Carter), and Antonio Smith (Calais Campbell), not to mention Karlos Dansby (Daryl Washington). Where they've failed is in finding the key positions that any NFL team needs to be successful: Quarterback, Pass Rusher, Left tackle.

The Cards have even been okay at drafting and holding on to cornerbacks, which would be the 4th item on my list. They even got a fine running back (not in the sense of "fine dining" as much as when your wife says that your Valentine's Day gift was "fine") in Tim Hightower, but then proceeded to sit on their balls by drafting Ryan Williams and deciding that he was going to be an upgrade immediately.

Another problem is that because of free agency and the salary cap teams have to use draft picks to replace guys that still have several productive years left which keeps them from improving in other areas.

Sure the replacements turned out very well but wouldn't you rather have had Breaston AND someone like NaVarro Bowman or Shawn Lauvao instead of Aaron Roberts?

 

[kerouac9]

Another problem is that because of free agency and the salary cap teams have to use draft picks to replace guys that still have several productive years left which keeps them from improving in other areas.

Sure the replacements turned out very well but wouldn't you rather have had Breaston AND someone like NaVarro Bowman or Shawn Lauvao instead of Aaron Roberts?

I dunno. That was just a different time in the NFL. There was a much bigger pot to spread around. I don't blame Breaston for going where the Chiefs paid him more money, and I don't blame the Cards for not going out of their budget for a replaceable player.

Breaston couldn't return punts anymore, and he wasn't a high-quality starter, and his knee was viewed as a ticking time bomb.

In the new CBA, you can get a guy like that for much cheaper. I think you could've gotten Breaston a couple years ago for what Early Doucet is on right now.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Another problem is that because of free agency and the salary cap teams have to use draft picks to replace guys that still have several productive years left which keeps them from improving in other areas.

Sure the replacements turned out very well but wouldn't you rather have had Breaston AND someone like NaVarro Bowman or Shawn Lauvao instead of Aaron Roberts?

Roberts has been just as productive as Breaston. However instead of paying Breaston $4M a year we got Roberts for about $600K. That's $3.4M a year that we used to lock up players like Campbell and Washington.

 

[Stout]

Roberts has been just as productive as Breaston. However instead of paying Breaston $4M a year we got Roberts for about $600K. That's $3.4M a year that we used to lock up players like Campbell and Washington.

Right, but his point is, we didn't just replace him and save money. We also had to waste a draft pick on a lateral talent move.

 

[kerouac9]

Right, but his point is, we didn't just replace him and save money. We also had to waste a draft pick on a lateral talent move.

$3.4M per year > 3rd round draft pick.

 

[Duckjake]

Roberts has been just as productive as Breaston. However instead of paying Breaston $4M a year we got Roberts for about $600K. That's $3.4M a year that we used to lock up players like Campbell and Washington.

As I said, because of free agency and salary cap considerations teams are having to replace players after the end of their rookie contracts. Without those considerations the Cards could have had Steve Breaston and another productive player.

Some teams are better than others at managing that and so are able to keep more players into their second contract which enables them to use the draft to improve the overall roster not just fill holes.

The Cardinals haven't been good at it. That's why they are reportedly having cap problems after going 18-30 the last 3 seasons and have had only 3 winning seasons since the start of free agency.

Of course this time next year Roberts will be leaving as a free agent and posters will be saying he wasn't that good anyway and not worth the money and the Cardinals were smart to draft Floyd to replace Roberts.

Same for Doucet. Though with him people are already saying he's isn't very good.

 

[Duckjake]

$3.4M per year > 3rd round draft pick.

Not to a team that had $19 million to pay Kevin Kolb and $5 million for Adam Snyder and $7.5 million for Daryn Colledge. And of course there's Stewart Bradley.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Not to a team that had $19 million to pay Kevin Kolb and $5 million for Adam Snyder and $7.5 million for Daryn Colledge. And of course there's Stewart Bradley.

What you are talking about here is striking out in Free Agency which is a completely different issue.

What we are talking about in this thread is Breaston receiving a contract that far exceeded his worth. Yes the Cardinals had to replace him but it was the smart move.

 

[Duckjake]

What you are talking about here is striking out in Free Agency which is a completely different issue.

What we are talking about in this thread is Breaston receiving a contract that far exceeded his worth. Yes the Cardinals had to replace him but it was the smart move.

No, but that's a good try at a spin. Money is money. The salary cap doesn't care whether its signing someone else's free agents or your own guys.

So $3.4 million in cap savings isn't greater than a talented football player to a team that habitually spent money on other teams cast offs but wouldn't spend it to keep their own guys and finishes 5-11 every year because they don't have enough talent and have too much roster turnover.

 

[MadCardDisease]

And let me just say that I really like Steve Breaston. He is a super nice guy. Breaston lived across the street from one of my daughters classmates and got to talk to him once. Very friendly and I'm glad he got his payday from the Chiefs.

I just don't think it would have been the right decision for the Cardinals to pay him that much money. Unfortunetly the NFL is a business and sometimes you have to let good people go.

 

[MadCardDisease]

So $3.4 million is cap savings isn't greater than a talented football player to a team that habitually spent money on other teams cast offs but wouldn't spend it to keep their own guys and finishes 5-11 every year because they don't have enough talent and have too much roster turnover.

The Cardinals ended up getting more for way less money. It's a smart business move. There is a reason he is no longer playing for the Chiefs. That reason is he isn't nearly worth what they paid him.

 

[kerouac9]

Not to a team that had $19 million to pay Kevin Kolb and $5 million for Adam Snyder and $7.5 million for Daryn Colledge. And of course there's Stewart Bradley.

What you are talking about here is striking out in Free Agency which is a completely different issue.

What we are talking about in this thread is Breaston receiving a contract that far exceeded his worth. Yes the Cardinals had to replace him but it was the smart move.

Free agency is the result of failures in the draft. The Cards had to pay $12.5M combined for Colledge and Snyder because they couldn't manage Deuce Lutui or Reggie Wells and couldn't develop Herman Johnson, Trevor Canfield, or Brandon Keith.

Cards had to pay $25 million to Kevin Kolb because they couldn't develop Matt Leinart or John Skelton.

Cards had to pay $25 million to Stewart Bradley because they couldn't develop Buster Davis.

Teams that can keep their best players around and develop their mid- to late-round draft picks into solid starters don't have to dip into free agency. Steve Keim the Super Scout can find wide receivers, runningbacks who fumble, and DBs from tiny colleges, but can't locate quarterbacks, offensive linemen or rush linebackers.

So, I'm pretty excited about Keim's promotion.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Free agency is the result of failures in the draft. The Cards had to pay $12.5M combined for Colledge and Snyder because they couldn't manage Deuce Lutui or Reggie Wells and couldn't develop Herman Johnson, Trevor Canfield, or Brandon Keith.

Cards had to pay $25 million to Kevin Kolb because they couldn't develop Matt Leinart or John Skelton.

Cards had to pay $25 million to Stewart Bradley because they couldn't develop Buster Davis.

Teams that can keep their best players around and develop their mid- to late-round draft picks into solid starters don't have to dip into free agency. Steve Keim the Super Scout can find wide receivers, runningbacks who fumble, and DBs from tiny colleges, but can't locate quarterbacks, offensive linemen or rush linebackers.

So, I'm pretty excited about Keim's promotion.

I agree for the most part.

However the bolded part I'm not so sure about. How many OLinemen, QBs and rush LBs did the Cards select early in the draft? If I recall correctly those positions were pertty much ignored with early round draft picks over the last several years. Which was a mistake IMO.

We don't know how Keim graded the QBs, OL, pass rushers, RBs, WRs, etc so it's impossible to grade him on that.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Cards had to pay $25 million to Stewart Bradley because they couldn't develop Buster Davis.

To be fair, I don't think anyone can develop Buster Davis.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree for the most part.

However the bolded part I'm not so sure about. How many OLinemen, QBs and rush LBs did the Cards select early in the draft? If I recall correctly those positions were pertty much ignored with early round draft picks over the last several years. Which was a mistake IMO.

We don't know how Keim graded the QBs, OL, pass rushers, RBs, WRs, etc so it's impossible to grade him on that.

That's a false equivalency. You expect that your high draft picks are going to be better than your late ones, earlier. Were there no linemen to take in the first four rounds of the last five drafts? Of course there were. But we didn't grade them as highly as we did the redundant skill position players that we ended up drafting.

Keim was a part of that grading process, and deserves criticism for it.

 

[Duckjake]

The Cardinals ended up getting more for way less money. It's a smart business move. There is a reason he is no longer playing for the Chiefs. That reason is he isn't nearly worth what they paid him.

So what does that have to do with $3.4 million in cap savings being worth more than a 3rd round draft pick to a team like the Arizona Cardinals?

Anyway the Cardinals have been making these smart business moves for 20 years. Not overpaying for the guys they have but overpaying for other teams cast offs instead of keeping their own guys and using draft picks to improve the positions they're filling by overpaying for cast offs.

 

[JeffGollin]

At Random...

It's misleading to point out WR's we drafted and claim that they represented the "cost" of releasing Breaston. In the 2 or 3 years since then, we've had roughly 20 draft picks and "you have to draft somebody." (i.e. If we picked at random, it figures that at least a couple of those picks would be WR's anyway).

Interesting comment about Keim being good at drafting unsung CB's but sucking at evaluating QB's etc. etc. It makes me wonder:

Did Wiz give Rod & Steve parameters as to the kinds of QB's, RB's and OL he wanted them to acquire to fit his system? Or was it up to the FO to set the standards and shop to meet those standards?

 

[kerouac9]

It's misleading to point out WR's we drafted and claim that they represented the "cost" of releasing Breaston. In the 2 or 3 years since then, we've had roughly 20 draft picks and "you have to draft somebody." (i.e. If we picked at random, it figures that at least a couple of those picks would be WR's anyway).

Interesting comment about Keim being good at drafting unsung CB's but sucking at evaluating QB's etc. etc. It makes me wonder:

Did Wiz give Rod & Steve parameters as to the kinds of QB's, RB's and OL he wanted them to acquire to fit his system? Or was it up to the FO to set the standards and shop to meet those standards?

The discussion from Hardy Drive was always that the coaching staff describes the kinds of players that they want for the position, and then the scouts look for those kinds of players.

The same information came out before the Senior Bowl, when Arians was introducing his staff to the media.

 

[MadCardDisease]

That's a false equivalency. You expect that your high draft picks are going to be better than your late ones, earlier. Were there no linemen to take in the first four rounds of the last five drafts? Of course there were. But we didn't grade them as highly as we did the redundant skill position players that we ended up drafting.

Keim was a part of that grading process, and deserves criticism for it.

We don't know what went on behind the scenes on draft day in the Cardinals War room. At the end of the day Whiz and Graves had the final say. We have no idea who Keim was pushing for. For all we know Keim might have been pimping moving up to get Vernon Gholston as our future pass rusher. We just don't know.

What we do know is that Michael Bidwill was there in the draft room. He knows what went down. Obviously he was impressed enough with Keim to hand him the reins.

 

[MadCardDisease]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9027866/steve-breaston-decides-regenokine-knee-procedure

Not a good sign for Breaston.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9027866/steve-breaston-decides-regenokine-knee-procedure

Not a good sign for Breaston.

How so? Article says he's not having procedure...MRI not alarming...medically cleared to play.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[GatorAZ]

Man he disappeared for a couple years.

 

[MadCardDisease]

How so? Article says he's not having procedure...MRI not alarming...medically cleared to play.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

This is not a good thing for a WR:

knee inflammation and early arthritic symptoms