Chriss and Knight traded

[Errntknght]

I'm not reading this trade as opening the way for an established PG - I take it to mean that Igor would rather go with the guys we have other than BK. You guys may well be reading it right...

 

[devilalum]

I'm not reading this trade as opening the way for an established PG - I take it to mean that Igor would rather go with the guys we have other than BK. You guys may well be reading it right...

They obviously did not have another deal in place for a point guard. BK and Chriss were both anchors, and not in the good way. I'm willing to buy the addition by subtraction theory. The PG problem is basically the same as it was before the trade.

 

[elindholm]

If you read my post you'll see I wrote "knight in a Phoenix Suns uniform"

Sorry, my mistake. I was confused about the timing of the injury that Smith was referring to.

 

[Folster]

For those harping on giving up on Chriss, I think we need to remember how hard it is to get the draft right. Philly missed on Okafor, and Noel with higher picks than Chriss. They traded away both for peantus once they realized their mistake.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For those harping on giving up on Chriss, I think we need to remember how hard it is to get the draft right. Philly missed on Okafor, and Noel with higher picks than Chriss. They traded away both for peantus once they realized their mistake.

I usually agree with this but Chriss is a different story IMO. There is just no way they did more than watch his highlights. I'm by no means a basketball scout. And I only watched a handful of his games. But his tendency to just stand there while the game was still live and just stare at an opposing player or the ball, the hoop, the refs etc. every time something went wrong was evident in each game I watched. The problems I saw should have kept him from going in the first round not just the lottery.

He's a gifted athlete so gambling on him doesn't bother me but the price we paid to draft a very high risk project makes no sense to me. It's bad enough we drafted a Euro player practically sight unseen but we had plenty of chances to get it right with Chriss. I don't know whether the fault lies with our scouting department, Ryan or Sarver but it is a concern IMO.

 

[TJ]

Sleeper: if Phoenix can’t land one of the big names, it should see if it could pry TJ McConnell from Philly.

 

[Chaplin]

it didn't just come back by magic though Chap. the #10 pick came back to us at the expense of ANOTHER two first round picks.

And isn't hindsight how you're supposed to judge someone's job performance? By looking what they did behind the time you currently sit?

Because as you know doing this futile exercise is just a convenient way for pessimists to continue to bash the team. There have been bad moves, yes. What else is there to discuss.

I was simply pointing out that if you are going to be comprehensive, you have to also mention that the #10 came back to us. The narrative isn’t complete of you don’t.

 

[Hoop Head]

Apparently Knight had surgery on his knee recently and there was a chance he wouldn't be available for the start of training camp. Knowing that this trade makes a lot more sense. I'm a little surprised that news wasn't talked about more but that surgery was mentioned by Gambo a few days ago, and reported before the trade was announced.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[devilalum]

Apparently Knight had surgery on his knee recently and there was a chance he wouldn't be available for the start of training camp. Knowing that this trade makes a lot more sense. I'm a little surprised that news wasn't talked about more but that surgery was mentioned by Gambo a few days ago, and reported before the trade was announced.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I’m gonna stop saying bad things about BK. I will say that I am ecstatic about him not being a Phoenix Suns any longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Raze]

Because as you know doing this futile exercise is just a convenient way for pessimists to continue to bash the team. There have been bad moves, yes. What else is there to discuss.

I was simply pointing out that if you are going to be comprehensive, you have to also mention that the #10 came back to us. The narrative isn’t complete of you don’t.

And that's fair. To be honest I thought about culminating the Miami pick and the #16 into the equation, but thought the better of it as I was trying to make my point more concise.

That said, those who don't learn from their history are doomed to repeat it. McD has a terrible history on trades. He often falls prey to selling low and buying high. And he just did it again. You can't argue that both Chriss and Knight are at their all time low value. That's just bad for our franchise. To make matters worse, we're all expecting McD to fix the PG issue by enacting another trade. Doesn't that seem unwise to place our hope on a man to make a trade when he has a long history of botching them?

You said "this futile exercise is just a convenient way for pessimists to continue to bash the team." It would only seem logical you were referring to me since you had previously quoted me so let me address this.

I absolutely love McD in drafts. Time and time again I've taken heat here for supporting him. He's had a couple of misses, but nothing even close to tragic. His hits FAR outweigh his misses. I have a whole write up on him and his picks which I won't bore you with. But I try to be very fair when I post. And I feel I've been incredibly fair with McD. He's a great drafter (top 5). He's an awful tradesman (bottom 5). He's a fairly good contract negotiator (Top 15).

I certainly don't feel pessimistic towards this team: quite the contrary. In my estimation, we just had the best draft in our franchises's history (that is, before any prospect has played a game).

I won't apologize for calling McD out when he's performing poorly, and I won't back down on my praise of him when he does a good job. Just trying to be fair.

 

[SirStefan32]

I do think McD has boxed himself into a corner now and while I think he will get a point guard (and a good one at that), he will end up having to overpay.

 

[devilalum]

I do think McD has boxed himself into a corner now and while I think he will get a point guard (and a good one at that), he will end up having to overpay.

He does this over and over. They bad mouth players for weeks then put them on the block. They create a void that is obvious to everyone then try and find a player to fill it. The Suns never seem to be operating from a position of power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JCSunsfan]

He does this over and over. They bad mouth players for weeks then put them on the block. They create a void that is obvious to everyone then try and find a player to fill it. The Suns never seem to be operating from a position of power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sigh. "for weeks" exaggeration to try to prove a point. Said one thing in a stressed moment about Bledsoe. It was repeated by fans and in the press for weeks, but he did not do it for weeks. I just hate it when people do not speak the truth in order to make a case. You could have made your point without being inaccurate like that.

All you had to say was "he bad mouthed a player and then tried to trade him."

 

[Hoop Head]

Sigh. "for weeks" exaggeration to try to prove a point. Said one thing in a stressed moment about Bledsoe. It was repeated by fans and in the press for weeks, but he did not do it for weeks. I just hate it when people do not speak the truth in order to make a case. You could have made your point without being inaccurate like that.

All you had to say was "he bad mouthed a player and then tried to trade him."

How long did the Markieff saga drag on for? How about the 3 headed PG mess? Bledsoe isn't the first player that's been moved because of a bad relationship with the team. This has happened before and in Bledsoe's case, it was reported he asked for an extension or trade before the season and came out playing awful, visibly dogging it while on the floor and he was benched for how long before a trade actually manifested? Bledsoe's public comments didn't help but it was McD's response that killed any chance of repairing the relationship. Bledsoe quickly backpedaled in the press about his "I don't want to be here" tweet but at that point McD was already airing dirty laundry to the press about the failed extension and how Bledsoe wanted traded before the season started.

 

[Mainstreet]

Apparently Knight had surgery on his knee recently and there was a chance he wouldn't be available for the start of training camp. Knowing that this trade makes a lot more sense. I'm a little surprised that news wasn't talked about more but that surgery was mentioned by Gambo a few days ago, and reported before the trade was announced.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

The earliest I've seen news about this new surgery on Knight is the above tweet posted by Gambo on 8-31-18. The one you just put up.

As near as I can tell, Adrian Wojnarowski broke the news about the trade.

I'm a bit confused about the part of your post that says, "that surgery was mentioned by Gambo a few days ago, and reported before the trade was announced."

I didn't see anything about it earlier.

 

[Hoop Head]

The earliest I've seen news about this new surgery on Knight is the above tweet posted by Gambo on 8-31-18. The one you just put up.

As near as I can tell, Adrian Wojnarowski broke the news about the trade.

I'm a bit confused about the part of your post that says, "that surgery was mentioned by Gambo a few days ago, and reported before the trade was announced."

I didn't see anything about it earlier.

Looking at Gambo's timeline I didn't see anything about Knight being traded before that tweet about the surgery. Looking at it closer he mentions we acquired Anderson and Melton but still didn't say Knight was being shipped out, only that the Suns didn't lose anyone they really liked. He didn't mention Knight by name until after he posted about the surgery. So I got confused trying to piece the timeline together based on Gambo's feed.

 

[Mainstreet]

Looking at Gambo's timeline I didn't see anything about Knight being traded before that tweet about the surgery. Looking at it closer he mentions we acquired Anderson and Melton but still didn't say Knight was being shipped out, only that the Suns didn't lose anyone they really liked. He didn't mention Knight by name until after he posted about the surgery. So I got confused trying to piece the timeline together based on Gambo's feed.

I was only trying to find out if there was some advance notice of Knight's surgery (from Gambo or really anyone) days before Wojnarowski broke the news. Apparently not. I think we can agree, local coverage of the Suns has slipped since Bordow left azcentral.

 

[JCSunsfan]

How long did the Markieff saga drag on for? How about the 3 headed PG mess? Bledsoe isn't the first player that's been moved because of a bad relationship with the team. This has happened before and in Bledsoe's case, it was reported he asked for an extension or trade before the season and came out playing awful, visibly dogging it while on the floor and he was benched for how long before a trade actually manifested? Bledsoe's public comments didn't help but it was McD's response that killed any chance of repairing the relationship. Bledsoe quickly backpedaled in the press about his "I don't want to be here" tweet but at that point McD was already airing dirty laundry to the press about the failed extension and how Bledsoe wanted traded before the season started.

But the GM did not "bad mouth him for weeks" it took a lot of time to trade him, but the GM was not speaking negatively that whole time. Did you read what I said or are you just switching on purpose and without regard?

 

[Hoop Head]

But the GM did not "bad mouth him for weeks" it took a lot of time to trade him, but the GM was not speaking negatively that whole time. Did you read what I said or are you just switching on purpose and without regard?

Yes, I read what you said but I don't agree with it. You accused @devilalum of exaggerating things to prove his point but it has happened in more than one instance and none of those times were over very quick with McD only speaking out against the player once.

McD spoke out negatively towards Bledsoe and that situation drug out for a few weeks. During that time, McD was open about how he felt, throwing Bledsoe under the bus and Rich Paul. He didn't just speak out once like you seemed to imply. He spoke out initially about Bledsoe's tweets and said they would meet with Bledsoe to discuss things. After that he elaborated a little more after the meeting and he brought Rich Paul into it by saying Bledsoe was getting bad advice and started talking about how Bledsoe wanted an extension before the season started or he wanted traded and the Suns had been trying to trade him but he wasn't doing his part of playing through it while they sought a trade. Then they told Bledsoe to stay at home and wait for a trade. A bit of time passed before he was traded but McD didn't shy away from speaking negatively about Bledsoe or Rich Paul during that time.

He had similar issues that lasted a little while with Dragic and Markieff also. Bledsoe wasn't the first player that had a public dispute with McD about wanting out. I don't even know if you can call it a real dispute since McD seemed to be the one doing the majority of talking in all of those instances. Those players let their requests for trade be known to the public and that's when McD started throwing verbal jabs at them. He never seemed to stop jabbing at them after they were dealt either. I think he stopped the quickest with Bledsoe but that's only because he learned a little bit from the previous times he'd held grudges against players and spoke out against them to the press.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have zero problems with the way Ryan handled the Bledsoe situation. And there is a huge difference between telling the truth and speaking negatively. Bledsoe sandbagged this team and his teammates BEFORE declaring publicly that he wanted out (and then lying about getting his hair done). That's unforgivable IMO and I'm glad that Ryan wasn't too cowardly to call him and Rich Paul out for that situation. And letting us know that it was all because we were unwilling to give him a huge early contract was important IMO.

He really screwed up with the twins. He absolutely should have given them a heads up prior to making the deal but the subsequent problems were all on the brothers. Crawling into the gutter with Dragic to exchange childish insults was truly embarrassing. But I don't equate the Bledsoe situation to either of the previous problems.

 

[devilalum]

These guys were both a huge distraction from the task at hand. The Suns have a lot of talented young players, no need to keep guys that can't or won't accept their role in the organization and contribute in a positive way.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The more I consider this trade, the more I like it..

I have been a proponent of trading either Chriss or Bender. We needed to commit to one or the other. While drafting both of them might have been questionable, there is merit in bringing in multiple players for a position of need and then choosing the one who succeeds. So, they committed to Bender. I am ok with that. I would have chosen Bender as well.

I have been saying that we should give BK the opportunity to show that he can be a real pg, but that the window should be very brief. It looks like Igor decided already. OK fine. Its better to not have him here than trying to bring him off the bench behind Shaq or another pg that we sign or trade for. If Knight is not our starter, he needed to go pronto.

Ryno is OK. He is a big who is a shooter. The fact that we can cut him next summer with no more commitment than we had to BK makes it an OK deal. He plays with a swagger that we want Bender to have, so he will be Bender's mentor for a year.

Melton is a player that has been really turning heads since summer league. He has been considered lottery level talent by some.

https://hoopshabit.com/2018/07/15/houston-rockets-deanthony-melton-turns-heads-summer-league/,
https://www.lockedonjazz.net/draft/deanthony-melton-nba-draft-breakdown/

So we trade a prospect (who is looking like a bust) in a position where we have other prospects (Holmes, Bender) for a prospect at a position of need (who is looking good so far).

It would still be nice to get a starting pg.

 

[Chaplin]

My only real problem with this deal actually has nothing to do with the deal itself. It's that EVERYONE is already assuming that Ryan Anderson will be our starting Power Forward. I'm sorry, I just don't see how that helps us, either in wins or in youth development. Ariza? Fine. Booker? Of course. But the starting lineup doesn't need Ryan Anderson, a no-defense big that couldn't get minutes in the playoffs for a Mike D'Antoni coached team. Ryno and TJ off the bench? Ok, I like that, but I'd rather have a player like Bender starting at PF so that you at least have someone that has a better chance at defensively covering up for Ayton's mistakes down low. And that is assuming Ariza starts at SF.

But ideally, Ariza starts at PF with JJ at SF and we go that route. That gives dynamic scoring across the board and decent to strong defense amongst 2 positions, and maybe 3 if - gulp - Shaq Harrison starts at PG.

And technically, you could run that lineup for only 8-10 minutes a night and all other lineups will be dictated by who has the hot hand.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This is a good trade on 2k19. Two 73 rated players for a 76.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

My only real problem with this deal actually has nothing to do with the deal itself. It's that EVERYONE is already assuming that Ryan Anderson will be our starting Power Forward. I'm sorry, I just don't see how that helps us, either in wins or in youth development. Ariza? Fine. Booker? Of course. But the starting lineup doesn't need Ryan Anderson, a no-defense big that couldn't get minutes in the playoffs for a Mike D'Antoni coached team. Ryno and TJ off the bench? Ok, I like that, but I'd rather have a player like Bender starting at PF so that you at least have someone that has a better chance at defensively covering up for Ayton's mistakes down low. And that is assuming Ariza starts at SF.

But ideally, Ariza starts at PF with JJ at SF and we go that route. That gives dynamic scoring across the board and decent to strong defense amongst 2 positions, and maybe 3 if - gulp - Shaq Harrison starts at PG.

And technically, you could run that lineup for only 8-10 minutes a night and all other lineups will be dictated by who has the hot hand.

I am going to bet that Bender, Jackson, Warren, and Anderson all will be playing for that starting role in preseason.

It's a pencil in for now