Cleaning House

[MadCardDisease]

How does keeping or cutting Wells affect the long-term future of the Cards? Is he taking carries away from Ryan Williams at 2.4 YPC?

Cutting Wells freed up money to spend elsewhere. Money that will be spent on the future.

 

[kerouac9]

Cutting Wells freed up money to spend elsewhere. Money that will be spent on the future.

Only 2013 money. Wells is a free agent in 2014. Plenty of other money around to get if we want to play competitive football this year. Same with Gay.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Only 2013 money. Wells is a free agent in 2014. Plenty of other money around to get if we want to play competitive football this year. Same with Gay.

That's where we disagree.

I don't see either Gay or Wells as making the Cardinals competitive. I think both are easily replacable for what they brought to the Cardinals.

 

[kerouac9]

That's where we disagree.

I don't see either Gay or Wells as making the Cardinals competitive. I think both are easily replacable for what they brought to the Cardinals.

Then replace them before you cut them. Greg Toler is gone already, and whomever replaces Beanie in 2013 is going to cost either more money or a draft pick we could have used somewhere else.

So, if we replace these players with third-day draft picks and undrafted free agents, are you going to be happy because the Cards offset the salary buyouts of Grimm and Whisenhunt?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Then replace them before you cut them. Greg Toler is gone already, and whomever replaces Beanie in 2013 is going to cost either more money or a draft pick we could have used somewhere else.

So, if we replace these players with third-day draft picks and undrafted free agents, are you going to be happy because the Cards offset the salary buyouts of Grimm and Whisenhunt?

Whoever replaces Beanie doesn't have to cost that much more than he was scheduled to make this year. It all depends on how the Cardinals structure the contract and the ammount of the signing bonus. For example, Joe Flacco is averaging about $20 per year. However his base salary for the first year is only $1M.

I'll be happy if the Cardinals are able to cut the fat now and put us in a position to be competitive in the future. Yes it means that 2013 will be a year of transition and there will be growing pains of having a younger team on the field.

 

[Duckjake]

Ill give it a shot.

The team under Whisenhunt and company was steadily regressing and at a rapid pace. They tied ridiculous contracts to older and injured players which ate up valuable space.

This new regime is cutting ties with all the bad investments Graves and Whisenhunt made. This year will be painful, in fact it may rival the worst seasons in terms of wins and losses in years, if not all time.

That said players are now back on board. No one is clamoring to leave. Players are being re-signed and a tremendous amount of coaching ability has been brought on board. If you're going to clean house, then clean house. This is what the Cardinals will do and each year they should get better and better.

There is a lot to be optimistic for, it's just going to be a tough road to hoe for a year or two.

Aren't three of the worst investments, Kolb, Snyder, and Colledge, still on the team?

The Cardinals cleaned house between the 2009 and 2010 seasons and look what that got us. I sure hope these new guys do a better job.

 

[kerouac9]

Whoever replaces Beanie doesn't have to cost that much more than he was scheduled to make this year. It all depends on how the Cardinals structure the contract and the ammount of the signing bonus. For example, Joe Flacco is averaging about $20 per year. However his base salary for the first year is only $1M.

I'll be happy if the Cardinals are able to cut the fat now and put us in a position to be competitive in the future. Yes it means that 2013 will be a year of transition and there will be growing pains of having a younger team on the field.

Then you're talking about carrying forward costs into the future, as we're happily doing with Daryn Colledge and the dead money created by Stewart Bradley's contract and possibly Kevin Kolb's. So do you want this team to improve for the future, or do you just want to get rid of Beanie Wells?

It can be the latter answer, just don't pretend that it helps the Cards' on-field performance in 2013 or cap situation in 2014 and going forward.

What is the fat? Beanie Wells on a one-year deal is "the fat"? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Are you sure we're going to have a "younger team on the field"? Because we've so far been connected to two 29-year-old special teamers.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Then you're talking about carrying forward costs into the future, as we're happily doing with Daryn Colledge and the dead money created by Stewart Bradley's contract and possibly Kevin Kolb's. So do you want this team to improve for the future, or do you just want to get rid of Beanie Wells?

It can be the latter answer, just don't pretend that it helps the Cards' on-field performance in 2013 or cap situation in 2014 and going forward.

What is the fat? Beanie Wells on a one-year deal is "the fat"? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Are you sure we're going to have a "younger team on the field"? Because we've so far been connected to two 29-year-old special teamers.

I'd like to see Colledge gone as well as Snyder. However cutting them now saves Nothing on the Cap now. Might as well wait and see if we draft a G to replace one of them before cutting them.

The Cardinals had very little money to work with this offseason. They had to look at every player to find money. Unreliable players like Wells were expendable.

Kolb is the next to go IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

I'd like to see Colledge gone as well as Snyder. However cutting them now saves Nothing on the Cap now. Might as well wait and see if we draft a G to replace one of them before cutting them.

The Cardinals had very little money to work with this offseason. They had to look at every player to find money. Unreliable players like Wells were expendable.

Kolb is the next to go IMO.

Cards could've freed up twice as much space as they "saved" by cutting Gay and Wells by just releasing Kolb. What are they spending the money on besides offsetting Grimm and Whis's salaries?

They have plenty of money to work with in a talent-poor free agent market. Cutting Stewart Bradley along essentially got them under the cap. Are you going to criticize the front office if they don't deploy the capital they've built up by releasing two starters, or is releasing Gay and Beanie simply a moral good?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Cards could've freed up twice as much space as they "saved" by cutting Gay and Wells by just releasing Kolb. What are they spending the money on besides offsetting Grimm and Whis's salaries?

They have plenty of money to work with in a talent-poor free agent market. Cutting Stewart Bradley along essentially got them under the cap. Are you going to criticize the front office if they don't deploy the capital they've built up by releasing two starters, or is releasing Gay and Beanie simply a moral good?

They don't have as much money to spend as you think. Remember they still need about $6M to sign rookies.

 

[kerouac9]

They don't have as much money to spend as you think. Remember they still need about $6M to sign rookies.

I've played this game before. They don't even need that much, because until training camp is over, only the Top 3 picks will really count against the salary cap, everyone else will just kick another minimum-salary player off the accounting under the Rule of 52.

They don't need to sign the rookies until late July. It's March, and we don't have a starting running back.

Nice try, though.

 

[CardsFan88]

The way I felt with Wells was he was cheap and if there was any hope for the future with him, he'd have this final cheap year to show it.

Now, if we have plans to sign some guys and move forward I'm fine with this move. But I do think it would be better to have the new guy under contract or in the building at least before we start cutting players like him.

Guys like Wells and Gay were cheap. If we wanted to move on, fine, but imo it would have been best to have that bird in the hand, because right now the bush is heading to Detroit.

Again I don't know why we release Gay when we hadn't signed Toler. Had we signed him, then you release Gay.

But now we released these small cap hit guys and don't have replacements.

Perhaps we will, but at this point we haven't, and there's a chance we miss out on Bush and/or Mendenhall.

If you've decided to cut those guys IF you find someone to spend it on, it's the same thing AS cutting the guys, EXCEPT, if the guys you found get scooped up somewhere else, you aren't left out in the lurch.

Because we can cut those guys in five minutes.

Though for a team with great pass coverage against great passing teams last year, we're now without our 2nd and 3rd CB, not to mention ADub.

Personally I was hoping with a new man in the front office, that perhaps we'd figure things like this out. Sucks to see we haven't.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I've played this game before. They don't even need that much, because until training camp is over, only the Top 3 picks will really count against the salary cap, everyone else will just kick another minimum-salary player off the accounting under the Rule of 52.

They don't need to sign the rookies until late July. It's March, and we don't have a starting running back.

Nice try, though

We didn't have a starting running back last September either. I think it's about time we go out and get one.

OK $4M going to the rookie pool. That money eventually needs to come from somewhere.

 

[kerouac9]

We didn't have a starting running back last September either. I think it's about time we go out and get one.

OK $4M going to the rookie pool. That money eventually needs to come from somewhere.

And we save $6M from cutting Kevin Kolb and $4M from releasing Stewart Bradley. We'd have $6M more left to play with, and we'd have a 1000 yard, 10 TD rusher and a starting cornerback still on the roster, with cap space opening up for 2014.

Now... well, at least we offset the contracts of Whis and Grimm.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Again I don't know why we release Gay when we hadn't signed Toler. Had we signed him, then you release Gay.

But now we released these small cap hit guys and don't have replacements.

Gay was not a small cap hit. He was due to make over $3M this year.

 

[kerouac9]

Gay was not a small cap hit. He was due to make over $3M this year.

Only if he's on the roster in Week 1. If you cut him at the end of training camp, the cap result is exactly the same.

Now we're needing a starting cornerback. Want to bet that we spend more than $3M on one?

 

[MadCardDisease]

And we save $6M from cutting Kevin Kolb and $4M from releasing Stewart Bradley. We'd have $6M more left to play with, and we'd have a 1000 yard, 10 TD rusher and a starting cornerback still on the roster, with cap space opening up for 2014.

Now... well, at least we offset the contracts of Whis and Grimm.

Hey I'm all for cutting Kolb. He's been at the top of my list of cuts. He'll be gone before his bonus is due on Saturday. Assuming he doesn't take a massive pay cut.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Only if he's on the roster in Week 1. If you cut him at the end of training camp, the cap result is exactly the same.

Now we're needing a starting cornerback. Want to bet that we spend more than $3M on one?

He was due a roster bonus so you save that by cutting him before it was due.

I still don't understand why people think Gay was some sort of superstar. He just signed a $1M contract to play this year. Obviously he was highly sought after.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Aren't three of the worst investments, Kolb, Snyder, and Colledge, still on the team?

The Cardinals cleaned house between the 2009 and 2010 seasons and look what that got us. I sure hope these new guys do a better job.

+1

That offensive line is full of bad moves.

 

[Dr. Jones]

To me, being positive about this team is too much work. Being negative (realistic) is far less work.

#nohomer

Exactly. The miracle of Kurt Warner can only have an effect for so long. Before and after that.... The Cards have earned nothing. We have given them the stadium, given them the sellouts, and they continue to have the same anemic approach in the FO.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Jesus K9!!! Stop making so much sense!!!

 

[kerouac9]

Gay was due a $250K roster bonus "sometime in the spring." That's well worth the opportunity cost of holding on to a starting cornerback until you can get another one.

The Cards were tight up against the cap, but not "we can't afford $250K for some roster assurance against Greg Toler leaving" tight.

 

[JeffGollin]

I don't mind these moves if it points us in the right direction. If this team gets a bunch of young talent and starts moving forward, i.e. like the 49ers did, then I'm all for it. If they get rid of talent and fill gaps with garbage like they did post 1998 then I don't want any part of it so here's hoping they do the right thing and get good, young talent.

Gay was due a $250K roster bonus "sometime in the spring." That's well worth the opportunity cost of holding on to a starting cornerback until you can get another one.

The Cards were tight up against the cap, but not "we can't afford $250K for some roster assurance against Greg Toler leaving" tight.

I'm guessing they felt Fleming was equal-to or better-than Gay as "Toler insurance." Unfortunately, we have suddenly become CB-poor in a passing-rich league.

 

[Heucrazy]

Gay was down right awful last year. I think the wailing and gnashing of teeth over him being cut is just an excuse to complain, which shocks me because there are plenty of other reasons to complain about this team.

 

[Duckjake]

Gay was down right awful last year. I think the wailing and gnashing of teeth over him being cut is just an excuse to complain, which shocks me because there are plenty of other reasons to complain about this team.

"Gay was awful, Toler was awful, Wilson was old....." Yet somehow the Cardinals managed to have the 5th ranked pass defense in the NFL. So how do they respond to that lofty ranking? Release half the starting secondary and lose another CB to free agency. (And maybe Money Mike too )

But they'll do what they always do, go to CBrental.com and bring in another guy or two for one year. Meanwhile Rashod Johnson needs to step up.