Coach 'Em Up

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
There are a number of young players on the Cardinals' roster who could be key contributors to the team's success. BA and his staff are typically not the patient types---they stress accountability, daily work ethic and the team chemistry factors. In short, players have to have game and be game every day.

QB Matt Barkley: Steve Keim hates to give up draft picks---even 7th rounders. Thus it says something that Keim traded for Barkley and kept Barkley when he could have released him and gotten the 7th pick back. At first glance, it would not appear that Barkley is a photo-typical BA type of QB in that Barkley is not 6'4", nor does he possess a power arm. However, Barkley's potential strengths are his football IQ, his self-confidence and his accuracy.

Bottom line: By coaching Barkley up to be the #2, the Cardinals can save up to $4M on the cap by not having to sign a veteran #2.

RB Marion Grice: Grice has all the physical traits the Cardinals covet at the RB position. He's got good size, speed, flexibility and versatility (BA has lined him up in the slot at times). From day one in TC last year, Grice was hampered by nagging leg injuries. If Grice comes to camp in great shape and stays healthy, he could make quite a splash this year.

Bottom line: Having Grice step up, the Cardinals wouldn't need to spend the cap space on a UFA RB or have to spend a draft pick on a RB.

TE Gerald Christian: Christian was looking very solid before his injury. BA loves his versatility---as he can be used as an H-back, FB and is very good on STs.

Bottom line: Coaching Christian up would improve STs, situational offense and would save the Cardinals an extra roster spot if he can be the FB.

G/T Earl Watford: Watford is a good, versatile offensive lineman and is quite possibly the most under-rated player on the roster. He did a very respectable job starting at RT when Massie was suspended. Watford has all the physical attributes to be a solid starter at guard or right tackle.

Bottom line: While the Cardinals would be wise to add another versatile G/T option for solidifying their depth on the offensive line, they shouldn't have to overpay for one with Watford already in place. Signing him to an extension before he hits free agency may be very wise.

WR/PR Jaxson Shipley: While Shipley isn't a burner, his excellent hands and quick feet give the Cardinals a legitimate chain mover from the slot and a shifty, make-you-miss punt returner.

Bottom line: It may be tempting to add a FA punt returner---but with Shipley in the fold, cap money could be wisely spent elsewhere. And let's face it, Patrick Peterson should be save for special occasions as a punt returner.

NT Xavier Williams: Had a very good TC. Was added to roster and was solid in the NT rotation. Has talent.

Bottom line: could he be the starter at NT? This would allow the Cardinals to slide Rodney Gunter over to LDE.

DT Ed Stinson: Stinson has shown some positive flashes, but he has yet to provide consistent production in the DT rotation. What was most encouraging down the stretch last year was seeing Stinson become more slippery in the pass rush. This could be a big year for him if he is motivated.

Botton line: With Frostee Rucker and Corey Redding getting older, a young buck like Stinson has an opportunity to make a move up the depth chart this year.

DE Josh Mauro: Mauro was a key contributor in some games the past two years, but he's had to battle through injuries and inconsistency.

Bottom line: Mauro's aggressive style and strength at the point of attack is just what the coaches want, if he could provide it more regularly.

LB Alani Fua: Here is a young player who has very similar traits to Karlos Dansby in terms of size, range, blitzing and pass coverage ability.

Bottom line: Fua could be a key player in the Cardinals' defense once he gets more experience and reps.

OLBs Kareem Martin, Shaq Riddick, Zach Wagenmann, Tristan Okpalaugo. All of these rushers have length and potential.

Bottom line: it should be very interesting to see if any of the rushers in this group emerge. Bill Parcels always says, "Potential means you haven't done anything yet." Curiously, BA has stated that he doesn't think that the Cardinals are going to be able to solve their pass rush through free agency. Steve Keim said recently that the top pass rushers in FA may be too pricey. Thus, if they are correct, the Cardinals' blueprint for the top of the draft is becoming very clear.

CB Asa Jackson: Jackson has good, strong natural ability and having played some already, he knows where the bar has been set and what the challenges are.

Bottom line: signing Jackson might have been yet another of Steve Keim's coups and if Jackson can be the #3 or #4 CB, it could give the Cardinals a chance to develop a rookie draft pick or Cariel Brooks in due time.

S D.J. Swearinger: Swearinger played well when he filled in for Rashad Johnson. He is a big hitter who takes the romance pout of the TE seam pass or the quick run up the middle (see James Starks). He needs to be developed as a cover safety and needs to become better versed in the nuance of the defense.

Bottom line: with good coaching and some vows of confidence, Swearinger could allow the team to play younger and tougher at the safety spots, while saving some cap money in the process.

Other Potential Surprises:

RB Kerwynn Williams---the second time was not quite the charm for the tenacious KW, but what about the third?

TE Ifeanyi Momah---was having a good camp before injury.

C Taylor Boggs---has received raves from past teammates. Very physical.

G John Fullington---was injured in the pre-season, but he was earning the favor of the coaches.

G Antoine McClain---Clemson big-boy who could be a factor in the running game.

T Rob Crisp---agile swing tackle who needs to mature.

T John Wetzel---BC boy who is a sturdy RT. He excels in the run game.

DT Pierre Olsen---Hurricane with good size and feet.

LB Gabe Martin---got the late season call up and is held in high favor by the coaches for his STs play and his quick feet at LB.

OLB Mike Reilly---has some speed and agility off the edge.

CB Cariel Brooks---can he build on good first TC?

CB Joel Wilkerson---an Australian rugby project with good size, speed and athleticism.

CB/S Shaun Prater---another Steve Keim sleeper? Lacks ideal length, but this Hawkeye really gets after it.
 
Last edited:

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
13,579
Reaction score
24,569
Marion Grice looks average at best every time I see him step on the field.
 

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
64,759
Reaction score
31,193
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
Good read

We do have some young talent and if some of them can be coached up and provide depth or even start it takes the pressure off getting FA's and allowing us to draft different positions.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
18,821
Reaction score
17,290
Location
Modesto, California
Neither of those backs appear to be a solution to spelling DJ,...and I am becoming less and less enamored of Ellington as a RB,...a receiver , but not so much as a RB...

IMO, we need to take a serious look at a new back in the draft who can give breaks to DJ without forcing us to change our offense while he is in. That back is...

Jordan Howard.....RB.....Indiana

6'1"....230 lbs

some scouts have compared him to Arian Foster.... but he is really close to a David Johnson clone....he runs with power...DELIVERS the blow...falls forward....he can catch,...and pick up the blitz when in protection.... the biggest weakness I see in him is he needs to improve his technique when blocking as he gets bulled over at times...but learning to set his base better will eliminate that issue.............DJ also had pass protection issues when he was drafted.
This is a guy we should be able to get in the fourth round who can show on field benefits right away.

https://youtu.be/w9WMcCVEtIc

that is his game against Michigan...not a highlight reel,..just every carry from one game against a big school
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
I like this thread.

Out of the list above, the following players I think have promise.

Gerald Christian, TE - There was a lot of talk about Christian becoming an H-Back type for the offense, and then the best thing that could have happened to this kid happened. He got hurt and but immediately on I.R. The numbers on him were 6'3" and about 245lbs out of college. Get this kid in the weight room and get him to about 255lbs or 260lbs, and you have another TE that fits the mold of this offense.


Earl Watford, G/T - I think we have seen all we are going to get out of Watford. Watford could have started on this line about 5 years ago, and now he is sticking to the roster for versatility reasons. I do not think Watford is going to be the start the Cardinals want, but he is great depth. That being said, you never know who the Cardinals will bring in these days, so his spot is not guaranteed by any means.

*SIDENOTE* - My goodness the expectations of the Cardinals offensive line have never been higher. In all seriousness, the coaching staff, and even the fans of this team are critical of players who would have been the best player on the offensive line 5 years ago. That is a good thing, but still quite a jump in expectations.


Xiaver Williams, NT - Looked very powerful last preseason. He gets a good push, and uses his hands way better than one would expect. His feet are in concrete tho, but really, we are talking about the backup NT, so if he can keep the point of attack from being pushed into the linebackers, he is better than most backups in the NFL.


Ed Stinson, DE - I would have rather it happened at another time, and not the NFC Championship game, but the fact Stinson was very upset about the Panthers game and butted heads with Campbell and coaches shows two things: 1. He cares, and 2. He is confident enough that he feels he can be someone who says how its gotta go out on the field, and not be told. Again, horrible time to do it, but Stinson has shown he is a competitor and his confidence is hitting all time highs. I was impressed with Stinson's growth last year. He was a bubble guy in the preseason and by year's end he was played very well for the Cardinals. There is a chance he may continue to improve, but he may have plateau'ed for this team. Which is fine, he is the kind of depth player you want.


Kareem Martin, OLB - Still only 24 years old, and learning the OLBer position. A bigger Sam Acho comes to mind, not to mention Martin plays special teams. I really didn't understand the infatuation with Martin, but at the end of this year I saw what the coaches we banking on happening. This kid is a really, really good athlete. He just has to be a better football player, and I think the "light" went on last year. He will be really interesting next season.


D.J. Swearinger, DB - This is "my guy" for the preseason. You can have your Tony Jefferson, I will take Swearinger. Some where in the infinite land of the interwebs, there is a story about Mr. Swearinger talking about getting cut and sitting around waiting for a call to play football agian. He got humbled, and scared. By the time he got to the Cardinals he realized his fortune, and played like it. I just hope he keeps that mindset, because I thought for a guy that came in and just starting playing right away, he played well, and made plays on defense. For someone that has been in the league a few years, usually the players are what they are after a couple years in the league. Mentally I think Swearinger will take his game to another level next year. Everyone is worried about the safety position, and I think he is going to fill in somewhere next year and produce.


That is about all I can see really providing anything going into next season. I am sure a few will prove me wrong, but I just do not see what they will bring to the table. The Canadian pass rusher, and the Australian rules rugby player a good stories, but finding another Cameron Wake is very unlikely, and Mr. Wilkerson is going to have a really hard time making a transition from his sport to football. That style of rugby is WAY different than any type of football, so he will have a long way to go. My hope is they let him show off his punting skill, and maybe bring something to the team in that regard.

Good post!
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Neither of those backs appear to be a solution to spelling DJ,...and I am becoming less and less enamored of Ellington as a RB,...a receiver , but not so much as a RB...

IMO, we need to take a serious look at a new back in the draft who can give breaks to DJ without forcing us to change our offense while he is in. That back is...

Jordan Howard.....RB.....Indiana

6'1"....230 lbs

some scouts have compared him to Arian Foster.... but he is really close to a David Johnson clone....he runs with power...DELIVERS the blow...falls forward....he can catch,...and pick up the blitz when in protection.... the biggest weakness I see in him is he needs to improve his technique when blocking as he gets bulled over at times...but learning to set his base better will eliminate that issue.............DJ also had pass protection issues when he was drafted.
This is a guy we should be able to get in the fourth round who can show on field benefits right away.

https://youtu.be/w9WMcCVEtIc

that is his game against Michigan...not a highlight reel,..just every carry from one game against a big school

Great call on Jordan Howard, oaken1. I had recently watched this game tape and came away even more impressed than I was while watching him at various points this season. The only thing i disagree with is where he will go in the draft, especially if he keeps drawing David Johnson comparisons. I would be surprised if he makes it to the Cardinals when they pick in the 3rd round. Plus, if he runs a 4.4 40 or lower at the Combine, he will be, imo, a top 60 pick.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I like this thread.

Out of the list above, the following players I think have promise.

Gerald Christian, TE - There was a lot of talk about Christian becoming an H-Back type for the offense, and then the best thing that could have happened to this kid happened. He got hurt and but immediately on I.R. The numbers on him were 6'3" and about 245lbs out of college. Get this kid in the weight room and get him to about 255lbs or 260lbs, and you have another TE that fits the mold of this offense.


Earl Watford, G/T - I think we have seen all we are going to get out of Watford. Watford could have started on this line about 5 years ago, and now he is sticking to the roster for versatility reasons. I do not think Watford is going to be the start the Cardinals want, but he is great depth. That being said, you never know who the Cardinals will bring in these days, so his spot is not guaranteed by any means.

*SIDENOTE* - My goodness the expectations of the Cardinals offensive line have never been higher. In all seriousness, the coaching staff, and even the fans of this team are critical of players who would have been the best player on the offensive line 5 years ago. That is a good thing, but still quite a jump in expectations.


Xiaver Williams, NT - Looked very powerful last preseason. He gets a good push, and uses his hands way better than one would expect. His feet are in concrete tho, but really, we are talking about the backup NT, so if he can keep the point of attack from being pushed into the linebackers, he is better than most backups in the NFL.


Ed Stinson, DE - I would have rather it happened at another time, and not the NFC Championship game, but the fact Stinson was very upset about the Panthers game and butted heads with Campbell and coaches shows two things: 1. He cares, and 2. He is confident enough that he feels he can be someone who says how its gotta go out on the field, and not be told. Again, horrible time to do it, but Stinson has shown he is a competitor and his confidence is hitting all time highs. I was impressed with Stinson's growth last year. He was a bubble guy in the preseason and by year's end he was played very well for the Cardinals. There is a chance he may continue to improve, but he may have plateau'ed for this team. Which is fine, he is the kind of depth player you want.


Kareem Martin, OLB - Still only 24 years old, and learning the OLBer position. A bigger Sam Acho comes to mind, not to mention Martin plays special teams. I really didn't understand the infatuation with Martin, but at the end of this year I saw what the coaches we banking on happening. This kid is a really, really good athlete. He just has to be a better football player, and I think the "light" went on last year. He will be really interesting next season.


D.J. Swearinger, DB - This is "my guy" for the preseason. You can have your Tony Jefferson, I will take Swearinger. Some where in the infinite land of the interwebs, there is a story about Mr. Swearinger talking about getting cut and sitting around waiting for a call to play football agian. He got humbled, and scared. By the time he got to the Cardinals he realized his fortune, and played like it. I just hope he keeps that mindset, because I thought for a guy that came in and just starting playing right away, he played well, and made plays on defense. For someone that has been in the league a few years, usually the players are what they are after a couple years in the league. Mentally I think Swearinger will take his game to another level next year. Everyone is worried about the safety position, and I think he is going to fill in somewhere next year and produce.


That is about all I can see really providing anything going into next season. I am sure a few will prove me wrong, but I just do not see what they will bring to the table. The Canadian pass rusher, and the Australian rules rugby player a good stories, but finding another Cameron Wake is very unlikely, and Mr. Wilkerson is going to have a really hard time making a transition from his sport to football. That style of rugby is WAY different than any type of football, so he will have a long way to go. My hope is they let him show off his punting skill, and maybe bring something to the team in that regard.

Good post!

I agree with you, Rugby, about Gerald Christian, Earl Watford, Xavier Wiliiams and D.J. Swearinger (although I would take Tony Jefferson over him any day---but thankfully Jefferson plays SS and Swearinger plays FS so there's a need for both). Good comments!

The two who concern me the most are Stinson and Martin because thus far they haven't played and reacted fast enough for our defense. They are both strong at the point of attack, Stinson more so than Martin, but they seem to lack the quick feet tit takes to close the deal consistently on plays in the NFL.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
I agree with you, Rugby, about Gerald Christian, Earl Watford, Xavier Wiliiams and D.J. Swearinger (although I would take Tony Jefferson over him any day---but thankfully Jefferson plays SS and Swearinger plays FS so there's a need for both). Good comments!

The two who concern me the most are Stinson and Martin because thus far they haven't played and reacted fast enough for our defense. They are both strong at the point of attack, Stinson more so than Martin, but they seem to lack the quick feet tit takes to close the deal consistently on plays in the NFL.

Agreed.

I think Stinson is going to improve because of his mental game could improve.

When it comes to Martin, I think the kid is thinking WAY too much, and not just read/reacting. I think his feet are plenty quick enough.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
18,821
Reaction score
17,290
Location
Modesto, California
Great call on Jordan Howard, oaken1. I had recently watched this game tape and came away even more impressed than I was while watching him at various points this season. The only thing i disagree with is where he will go in the draft, especially if he keeps drawing David Johnson comparisons. I would be surprised if he makes it to the Cardinals when they pick in the 3rd round. Plus, if he runs a 4.4 40 or lower at the Combine, he will be, imo, a top 60 pick.


I would not be against drafting him sooner....a couple of scouts have him rated as the second best back in the draft behind Elliot.

normally Keim likes to trade back and get more picks, but the way this draft looks compared to our needs I would much prefer to see the team trade up and come away with multiple picks in the second and third rounds.

would love to see us come away from the draft with something like...

Vernon Butler...NT....

Carl Nassib.....DE...

Scooby Wright....LB...

Jordan Howard...RB...

Graham Glasgow....C...
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I would not be against drafting him sooner....a couple of scouts have him rated as the second best back in the draft behind Elliot.

normally Keim likes to trade back and get more picks, but the way this draft looks compared to our needs I would much prefer to see the team trade up and come away with multiple picks in the second and third rounds.

would love to see us come away from the draft with something like...

Vernon Butler...NT....

Carl Nassib.....DE...

Scooby Wright....LB...

Jordan Howard...RB...

Graham Glasgow....C...

That would be a splendid draft. Butler may not be available at #29...but if Keim were to trade down from #29 and add another 3rd rounder, all 4 of the other players are within reach. My one concern is there still isn't a legit edge rusher among these picks.

How about this:

Trade down from #29 into the 2nd round to add another 3rd round pick:

2A. OLB Kamalei Correa, Boise St.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

2B. DE Carl Nassib, Penn. St.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

3A. RB Jordan Howard, Indiana

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

3B. ILB Scooby Wright, Arizona St.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

4. Graham Glasgow, C, Michigan

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 
Last edited by a moderator:

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
18,821
Reaction score
17,290
Location
Modesto, California
That would be a splendid draft. Butler may not be available at #29...but if Keim were to trade down from #29 and add another 3rd rounder, all 4 of the other players are within reach.


Pretty sure if Butler does not make it to the end of round one then a guy like,...Kevin Dodd will be there

I just have a feeling we will see an early run on LB's and there is only one DT/NT considered a top 20 talent for the most part..when you add in the annual run on overdrafted OT's I am pretty sure Butler can make it to 29
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Sticking with a trade down and the formula of:

1. Edge Rusher
2. Inside Rusher
3. Skill Player on Offense
4. Good Tackler
5. Center

Here's another mock:

2A. OLB Leonard Floyd, Georgia

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

2B. DE/DT Adolphus Washington, Ohio St.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

3A. RB Davontae Booker, Utah

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

3B. S Miles Killebrew, Southern Utah

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

4. C Evan Boehm, Missouri

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 
Last edited by a moderator:

AZCrazy

ASFN Lifer
Joined
May 18, 2014
Posts
3,984
Reaction score
2,562
I would not be against drafting him sooner....a couple of scouts have him rated as the second best back in the draft behind Elliot.

normally Keim likes to trade back and get more picks, but the way this draft looks compared to our needs I would much prefer to see the team trade up and come away with multiple picks in the second and third rounds.

would love to see us come away from the draft with something like...

Vernon Butler...NT....

Carl Nassib.....DE...

Scooby Wright....LB...

Jordan Howard...RB...

Graham Glasgow....C...

Your dream looks a lot like mine. Make it so.
 

b8rtm8nn

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Posts
3,385
Reaction score
1,677
Location
Tucson
When it comes to Martin, I think the kid is thinking WAY too much, and not just read/reacting. I think his feet are plenty quick enough.

He just transitioned to OLB this year from the DLine, and I think that decision was made during training camp, so he was essentially a rookie in terms of knowing the nuances of his position. He did OK, will be interested to see if he makes a big jump this year. I agree that athletically, he is good enough and probably a better fit for LB than the DLine given how we play our defense.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,524
Reaction score
16,774
Location
San Antonio, Texas
I do not see us fixing any of our pass rushing woes by drafting number 29 and thinking we are going to get a rookie to change anything, or any of the current players are going to make some big leap because if they had elite passing rushing skills one of them would have shown it already in at least a few dominant plays... we are going to have to get at least one high priced pass rusher in free agency :)
 

Catfish

Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Posts
4,551
Reaction score
64
Great read Mitch. I believe that this thread of yours really shows the depth and breadth of the mind of Steve Keim in his scouting and signing of potential players. He has combined matching the potential, with a can-do character, and a want-to mind set in these players, and now what needs to happen is a 'build-em-up', 'coach-em-up', daily regimen so that their special attributes can be exploited, and their faults, diminished. We have the perfect coaching staff in this league to accomplish just that. We also have the perfect blend of veteran players on the field with which to show how to accomplish what is needed.

If you combine this organization's ability to accomplish this, with Keim's agility in using the draft, then we may see a new philosophy of moving to acquire much needed 'key' starters, such as an 'elite' pass rusher, which this team has lacked for some time now. I look to see more trade involvement in the draft, allowing us to move up for an occasional 'key' specimen player like a pass rusher that this defense can be built around. Having numbers of multi-talented and veteran young players on this roster could help immensely with making the numbers work for such a trade. Now that we are drafting late in the rounds, this my be the new look of our drafting program for the future, (at least with regard to acquiring that special player needed, every few years in order to solidify an offense, or a defensive unit).

As much as this roster has been improved in the past three years, I believe that we are just seeing the beginning of what this roster could become in the future, while maintaining versatile and talented role players to complement the 'elite' players that units are built around. I am very excited to see what is yet to come.
 

AZCrazy

ASFN Lifer
Joined
May 18, 2014
Posts
3,984
Reaction score
2,562
We definitely are in agreement that our defensive front 7 is the glaring weak link on the team. Yet over the last year or two we've taken in a very large haul of young talent on the DL and at LB positions. A lot, actually.

How much faith do you have that one or some of them will develop further into notable and reliable talent? Very few people come into the league and dominate in their first year. Could these guys be on the verge?

Adding more rookies to the mix may not solve the problem quite as quickly as we all would like. Plus it may interfere with the development of Stinson, Gunter, Mauro, Martin, Golden, Riddick, Fua and the like. The real dice that have to be rolled in this offseason is on whether some of these guys are worth giving major reps to in order to develop, and to pick just which ones they are.

Two big name free agents (love how it's possible to say that now and mean it) and a full draft of BPA should do us well.
 

82CardsGrad

7 x 70
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Posts
36,478
Reaction score
8,637
Location
Scottsdale
Good post Mitch... but for the life of me, I'll never understand your fascination with Grice.
As someone who watched him play here at ASU, and then struggle during his brief NFL career, I have never viewed him as a NFL-caliber talent... He is marginal at his very best. He is a career practice squad guy who might see a NFL stadium every now and then due to injuries. There is not one aspect of his skill-set that suggests he should be playing on Sundays. Speed, quickness, hands, making tacklers miss, blitz pickups... He is marginal at best in all of those facets. Not one does he excel in.
 

pinetopred

Registered
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
756
Reaction score
215
Personally I don't think Golden gets enough credit for how well he played as a rookie. It's been said many times but it's very true rookies usually don't impact the passrush very much at best you get glimpses of future potential. And that's why I think Golden has a chance to take a bigger step forward then most he was able to get some qb pressure with very few technical moves and counter moves all things it takes time to develop. I know the argument is he physically limited so his ceiling isn't very high, but he already has the one thing you can't teach motor
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
18,821
Reaction score
17,290
Location
Modesto, California
I do not see us fixing any of our pass rushing woes by drafting number 29 and thinking we are going to get a rookie to change anything, or any of the current players are going to make some big leap because if they had elite passing rushing skills one of them would have shown it already in at least a few dominant plays... we are going to have to get at least one high priced pass rusher in free agency :)



and yet, a high priced pass rusher may fail here if we do not have big men in the middle eating up blockers...
football is the ultimate team sport...how well one guy does affects how well the next guy does..
we didn't get to see much of Peters,...not sure if he drastically improves that situation or not upon his return.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Good post Mitch... but for the life of me, I'll never understand your fascination with Grice.
As someone who watched him play here at ASU, and then struggle during his brief NFL career, I have never viewed him as a NFL-caliber talent... He is marginal at his very best. He is a career practice squad guy who might see a NFL stadium every now and then due to injuries. There is not one aspect of his skill-set that suggests he should be playing on Sundays. Speed, quickness, hands, making tacklers miss, blitz pickups... He is marginal at best in all of those facets. Not one does he excel in.

BA has spoken highly of Grice---the coaches feel he has the requisite talent to be a solid #3 RB. What I have liked about him in the limited action he has seen with the Cardinals is that he is tough in the red zone, can take a hit and still score and he's got some decent receiving skills.

Will he make the Cardinals' roster? I would say he is still a long shot---so, after all, you make be correct. He needs a big camp.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
We definitely are in agreement that our defensive front 7 is the glaring weak link on the team. Yet over the last year or two we've taken in a very large haul of young talent on the DL and at LB positions. A lot, actually.

How much faith do you have that one or some of them will develop further into notable and reliable talent? Very few people come into the league and dominate in their first year. Could these guys be on the verge?

Adding more rookies to the mix may not solve the problem quite as quickly as we all would like. Plus it may interfere with the development of Stinson, Gunter, Mauro, Martin, Golden, Riddick, Fua and the like. The real dice that have to be rolled in this offseason is on whether some of these guys are worth giving major reps to in order to develop, and to pick just which ones they are.

Two big name free agents (love how it's possible to say that now and mean it) and a full draft of BPA should do us well.

I like your plan of two big name free agents and a BPA draft, AZCrazy. What two big name free agents are you hoping for?
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Great read Mitch. I believe that this thread of yours really shows the depth and breadth of the mind of Steve Keim in his scouting and signing of potential players. He has combined matching the potential, with a can-do character, and a want-to mind set in these players, and now what needs to happen is a 'build-em-up', 'coach-em-up', daily regimen so that their special attributes can be exploited, and their faults, diminished. We have the perfect coaching staff in this league to accomplish just that. We also have the perfect blend of veteran players on the field with which to show how to accomplish what is needed.

If you combine this organization's ability to accomplish this, with Keim's agility in using the draft, then we may see a new philosophy of moving to acquire much needed 'key' starters, such as an 'elite' pass rusher, which this team has lacked for some time now. I look to see more trade involvement in the draft, allowing us to move up for an occasional 'key' specimen player like a pass rusher that this defense can be built around. Having numbers of multi-talented and veteran young players on this roster could help immensely with making the numbers work for such a trade. Now that we are drafting late in the rounds, this my be the new look of our drafting program for the future, (at least with regard to acquiring that special player needed, every few years in order to solidify an offense, or a defensive unit).

As much as this roster has been improved in the past three years, I believe that we are just seeing the beginning of what this roster could become in the future, while maintaining versatile and talented role players to complement the 'elite' players that units are built around. I am very excited to see what is yet to come.

Thus far, Catfish, you have it right when you laud Steve Keim for showing a strong ability to create solid depth. The big question is, will some of the younger depth players make a charge up the depth chart so that Keim doesn't have to be drafting the same positions over and over?

What concerns me is the current philosophy on defense---Keim has done a better job of adding run stuffers than signing pass rushers and speed guys on the edge who can chase QBs like Newton and Wilson down. Thus, it should be interesting to see what can happen if and when Keim adds a speed element on the edges in in the middle of the nickel (SILB, FS).
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Personally I don't think Golden gets enough credit for how well he played as a rookie. It's been said many times but it's very true rookies usually don't impact the passrush very much at best you get glimpses of future potential. And that's why I think Golden has a chance to take a bigger step forward then most he was able to get some qb pressure with very few technical moves and counter moves all things it takes time to develop. I know the argument is he physically limited so his ceiling isn't very high, but he already has the one thing you can't teach motor

Golden is a stellar fit at SOLB, pinetopred. We now need to add speed opposite him and up the middle (save for Bucannon, who is also a stellar fit at WILB).
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
559,256
Posts
5,462,346
Members
6,337
Latest member
rattle
Top