Complete Frustration

[Buckybird]

Joey Porters worst days are better than everyone but Hayes best days IMO

how can you compare the 2? They do play differant positions.

 

[Buckybird]

I think the problem deep down still lies with the Bidwills turning Graves and Whisenhunt away from going for the better FA players and towards those that are cheaper and more often then not far lower quality players. For us to compete at the level we are at now we need to spend the money to get the quality we need to replace the quality we lost as you are not gonna be able to strike with every draft to fill holes. We cant get by every year picking up the remaining scraps in the FA market and hoping to fix our problems in the draft.

While I agree with you will still have issues to a degree with Mr B, winning on a consistant basis isn't achieved thru signing a bunch of expensive free agents. Watch how the Redskins & Cowpies do business comapared to the Steelers, Pats, Colts & Iggles.

 

[Cheesebeef]

In retrospect Foote looks to have been injured more seriously then any of us thought, otherwise it makes no sense why he would have gone to be a backup in Pitt. Thats why he didn't sign.

this has absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever. We don't even know if we offered him a contract and until we see the numbers for what Paris Lenon got, we'll have no idea if we just went with the cheaper guy and are using injury as an excuse after the fact.

 

[Cheesebeef]

While I agree with you will still have issues to a degree with Mr B, winning on a consistant basis isn't achieved thru signing a bunch of expensive free agents. Watch how the Redskins & Cowpies do business comapared to the Steelers, Pats, Colts & Iggles.

the Eagles and Pats have consistently made big money signings/trades. Why do people keep bringing them up in these conversations is a mystery to me. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but over the last 6 years, the Cowboys have had a much better winning percentage than the Cards, not to mention 3 Super Bowl Rings in the 90's.

 

[Heucrazy]

The " Let's vent " commercials are Coors light not Bud.

 

[Shane]

this has absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever. We don't even know if we offered him a contract and until we see the numbers for what Paris Lenon got, we'll have no idea if we just went with the cheaper guy and are using injury as an excuse after the fact.

There you go again assuming again that we only signed lenon because we didn't sign Foote. We have been told outright they were interested in both. Why the sour grapes?

 

[Cheesebeef]

There you go again assuming again that we only signed lenon because we didn't sign Foote. We have been told outright they were interested in both. Why the sour grapes?

I'm not assuming anything, "and until we see the numbers for what Paris Lenon got, we'll have no idea if we just went with the cheaper guy and are using injury as an excuse after the fact." The word until is pretty much a dead giveaway there.

and sorry shane, I just don't swallow everything Rod Graves says. If we go out an sign another ILB (like apparently was the plan to sign both Foote and Lenon) then you'll be right, but I don't really see that happening. When it does, I'll man up and say I'm wrong, but until then, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Shane]

I'm not assuming anything, "and until we see the numbers for what Paris Lenon got, we'll have no idea if we just went with the cheaper guy and are using injury as an excuse after the fact." The word until is pretty much a dead giveaway there.

and sorry shane, I just don't swallow everything Rod Graves says. If we go out an sign another ILB (like apparently was the plan to sign both Foote and Lenon) then you'll be right, but I don't really see that happening. When it does, I'll man up and say I'm wrong, but until then, I'll believe it when I see it.

Lenons #s in no way shape or form no matter what they are will prove or disprove you theory that "we just went cheap" you will just believe what you want. No way lenons # would be as high as footes no matter what he is almost 3 years older and doesn't have the "name recognition" foote does. That's what makes it perfectly feasable that we wanted both IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Lenons #s in no way shape or form no matter what they are will prove or disprove you theory that "we just went cheap" you will just believe what you want.

they would if we don't sign anyone else comparable to Foote, wouldn't it?

No way lenons # would be as high as footes no matter what he is almost 3 years older and doesn't have the "name recognition" foote does. That's what makes it perfectly feasable that we wanted both IMO.

Well, if we go after someone else of Foote's ilk, you'll be right. Knowing what I know about this team and how they operate, after reading what they've said, I find that to be dubious. But if they do, then I said, I'll be happy to say I was wrong. Problem is, who the hell is out that is even a mediocre LBer at this point who could be a band-aid like Foote could?

 

[ReddBird]

Mostly, I'm frustrated that it's not draft day. I want me some football!

 

[Monty]

While I agree with you will still have issues to a degree with Mr B, winning on a consistant basis isn't achieved thru signing a bunch of expensive free agents. Watch how the Redskins & Cowpies do business comapared to the Steelers, Pats, Colts & Iggles.

Im not suggesting wholescale FA signings but im advocating for us to go for the top talent without the approach that we cant afford them. Im saying that we should look to fill holes in our team by targeting the quality players available in the FA market without always arguing that they cost too much. Well guess what top quality costs more then the mediocre players we go for and if we are gonna compete we need to sometimes spend top dollar to get that quality.

To be fair the Graves i think his conservativeness in the FA market is not entirely his own doing as he is hamstrung by the Bidwills but he also seems to be a very passive guy that doesnt strike when the iron is hot as he is just too reluctant to go for what he thinks is right. Im saying it seems that way as i do not claim to know the inner goings on of the Cardinals FO.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

this has absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever. We don't even know if we offered him a contract and until we see the numbers for what Paris Lenon got, we'll have no idea if we just went with the cheaper guy and are using injury as an excuse after the fact.

Looks like we are just destined to disagree this week I guess.

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...cy-Fluid/6925edc6-ca1d-4d6b-b929-36d4d9dc7a08

There was also some issue with the health of Foote’s foot – an injury that cut short his 2009 season with a couple of games remaining.

So when you take into account that we do physicals on the visits, he did in fact injure his foot to end his season in Detroit, said he was never offered, said he preferred to play here and was pretty damn adamant about it, would have been a starter here opposed to a backup, and likely would have gotten similar money here you take the cross section of common sense and logic and put two and two together.

Notice they also made a big to do in the Detroit Free Press article about Foote signing " if he passes a physical" which is true in every FA scenario, yet rarely so pronounced you see more to his injury then we initially realized.

Here's Urban pointing it out from the article...

The article I linked to above said Foote could sign with the Steelers if he passes a physical. Well, yeah. He could. He also might not.

Sounds like there is reason to think Foote is more injured then we thought. Or maybe its just a big consipiracy and Urban is a mouth piece of the team and trying to make the Cardinals look good after the fact....

The Dark Side is strong with this one

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EDIT: More Ammo

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/15594/differing-views-on-footes-injury

 

[CardinalChris]

Why should the team have to rush into a decision? If the guy is a marquee free agent, sure, but at this point we are to role players. I think they want to see what talent they already have in place at OLB before an offer. And since he had no other visits, I say why panic.

 

[Shane]

they would if we don't sign anyone else comparable to Foote, wouldn't it?



Well, if we go after someone else of Foote's ilk, you'll be right. Knowing what I know about this team and how they operate, after reading what they've said, I find that to be dubious. But if they do, then I said, I'll be happy to say I was wrong. Problem is, who the hell is out that is even a mediocre LBer at this point who could be a band-aid like Foote could?

Who do you consider of = Ilk in IYO? That would appease you?

 

[overseascardfan]

Right now I am thinking ARZ should just forget Porter and keep all their picks and shore up the D that way. That also means give up chasing Whitehurst which would cost us a third. Sign Derek Anderson or Daunte Culpepper and be done with it. I know I've said I've done my last mock but since it looks like we might not sign anyone here is my last mock.

#1 ILB Sean Weatherspoon - Starts from Day 1, no other options.
#2 DT Terrence Cody - Lott needs to tone up that flabby body.
#3 DE / OLB Jermaine Cunningham - Arguably FLA's best DE this year.
#3 CB Donovan Warren - Despite Combine, still a solid CB.
#4 ILB Micah Johnson - Another solid ILB.
#6 QB Levi Brown - Third stringer who rids us of BSP.

 

[Assface]

Right now I am thinking ARZ should just forget Porter and keep all their picks and shore up the D that way. That also means give up chasing Whitehurst which would cost us a third. Sign Derek Anderson or Daunte Culpepper and be done with it. I know I've said I've done my last mock but since it looks like we might not sign anyone here is my last mock.

#1 ILB Sean Weatherspoon - Starts from Day 1, no other options.
#2 DT Terrence Cody - Lott needs to tone up that flabby body.
#3 DE / OLB Jermaine Cunningham - Arguably FLA's best DE this year.
#3 CB Donovan Warren - Despite Combine, still a solid CB.
#4 ILB Micah Johnson - Another solid ILB.
#6 QB Levi Brown - Third stringer who rids us of BSP.

I don't think Cody makes it to our second pick but I would love to see our draft go like that. If Weatherspoon and McLain are both off the board I'd like to go Cody in the first and pick a WILB in the second.

Of the QB prospects in this draft I like Levi Brown the best to be the backup here because he can use his athleticism to make plays if he has to come in mid-game. Since the starter usually gets almost all the reps in practice it's nice to have a guy who can hold down the fort without needing a full week of reps. I don't see him being a starter down the road but he'd be a great long term backup.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sounds like there is reason to think Foote is more injured then we thought. Or maybe its just a big consipiracy and Urban is a mouth piece of the team and trying to make the Cardinals look good after the fact....

Yeah.. here's the problem with debating something with you. You throw the "big conspiracy" thing in there to immediately take a civil disagreement and intimate that I'm crazy, which is just bad form. It's not a big conspiracy to believe that a team's employee (which is what Urban is) would spin their miss-step in it's favor. He's the liason to the fans... it's his JOB to make the Cardinals look good no matter what they do. That's what employees of teams usually do if they like their jobs.

And considering that we haven't heard anything about Foote failing a physical from the Steelers, this injury which was NEVER mentioned by the Cardinals or Urban before seems like an excuse to me and nothing more.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Who do you consider of = Ilk in IYO? That would appease you?

unfortunately, pretty much no one. The cupboard was already pretty bare and once Andra Davis went off the board, our passive approach hurt us once again here. There were other options earlier in FA (Fujita for one), but our passive approach to FA hurt us.

We didn't go early, we whiffed on the mid and now we're stuck with the Paris Lenon-esque drek of the league at the position.

I guess my question to you is, who do you think is of the mediocre quality band-aid that Foote would have been.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Porter to visit Redskins

1. Former Dolphins linebacker Joey Porter, who visited the Cardinals last week, is scheduled to visit the Washington Redskins on Thursday. 4 minutes ago via UberTwitter

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

 

[PJ1]

Yeah.. here's the problem with debating something with you. You throw the "big conspiracy" thing in there to immediately take a civil disagreement and intimate that I'm crazy, which is just bad form. It's not a big conspiracy to believe that a team's employee (which is what Urban is) would spin their miss-step in it's favor. He's the liason to the fans... it's his JOB to make the Cardinals look good no matter what they do. That's what employees of teams usually do if they like their jobs.

And considering that we haven't heard anything about Foote failing a physical from the Steelers, this injury which was NEVER mentioned by the Cardinals or Urban before seems like an excuse to me and nothing more.

Amazing to me that some assume the Steelers would sign him if he had an injury issue that caused us to not even make an offer. Is it that the inept Steelers organization that has never won a thing over the years doesn't know what they are doing?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Yeah.. here's the problem with debating something with you. You throw the "big conspiracy" thing in there to immediately take a civil disagreement and intimate that I'm crazy, which is just bad form. It's not a big conspiracy to believe that a team's employee (which is what Urban is) would spin their miss-step in it's favor. He's the liason to the fans... it's his JOB to make the Cardinals look good no matter what they do. That's what employees of teams usually do if they like their jobs.

And considering that we haven't heard anything about Foote failing a physical from the Steelers, this injury which was NEVER mentioned by the Cardinals or Urban before seems like an excuse to me and nothing more.

I wasn't trying to intimate you are crazy cheese. My point is that you look at most things Cardinals from a skewed negative perspective, always assuming the FO is screwing up one way or the other.

And maybe I am too far skewed the other way in that I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. But that hasn't always been the case with me. It's Whisenhunt and its getting cliche at this point but I trust he has a TON of say in what goes on, and if we don't even same to offer the guy and its reported we didn't like the injury report, I tend to believe it.

That's all. I never meant to intimate you are crazy. Quite the contrary, i like your perpective on many Suns and Cards related topics.

I do think you are a negative nelly from time to time though

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Amazing to me that some assume the Steelers would sign him if he had an injury issue that caused us to not even make an offer. Is it that the inept Steelers organization that has never won a thing over the years doesn't know what they are doing?

Believe what you want but I cited two articles (one local and one national) to make my point so its not like I am just pulling stuff out of thin air.

And teams have different doctors, requirements for health, and most importantly less risk (Foote would be a back up in Pitt) when they evaluate these decisions.

And that last sentence is pretty silly. Like the two are mutually exclusive or something. Differing opinions by two different doctors happens every day.

 

[PJ1]

Believe what you want but I cited two articles (one local and one national) to make my point so its not like I am just pulling stuff out of thin air.

And teams have different doctors, requirements for health, and most importantly less risk (Foote would be a back up in Pitt) when they evaluate these decisions.

And that last sentence is pretty silly. Like the two are mutually exclusive or something. Differing opinions by two different doctors happens every day.

So you have a quote from our team doctor and Graves as to the results of the physical?

And saying Pitt would be less concerned about the injury because Foote will be a backup is a real good one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you have a quote from our team doctor and Graves as to the results of the physical?

And saying Pitt would be less concerned about the injury because Foote will be a backup is a real good one.

yeah, I gotta wonder why Pitt would give this guy 4 million dollars guaranteed if he was indeed injured.

and we all know that national articles depend on local articles/beat writers and go from there.

bottom line, there's no evidence whatsoever that Foote has injury problems. All we have is speculation from the mouth piece of the team that just whiffed on getting him. Not exactly something to hang your hat on.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

So you have a quote from our team doctor and Graves as to the results of the physical?

And saying Pitt would be less concerned about the injury because Foote will be a backup is a real good one.

Jesus man do you have a quote that Wiz is making all the decisions on draft day? I'm guessing not. So we can bet you assume Graves is calling all the shots then this upcoming April, right? What a straw man argument.

And It's not about being "less" concerned. It's about the evaluation. Maybe the Cardinals team doctors think the foot injury is more susceptiable to being reinjured and the Steelers aren't as worried about the wear and tear as he won't be playing as many snaps. Or maybe its something entirely different. It's not just black and white with these types of things.

I can show you half a dozen times in sports when one teams doctors' have evaluated a player one way, and another has signed/traded for him anyway.

Oh look heres one!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3917505

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4361334

AGAIN I AM NOT JUST PULLING THIS OUT OF THIN AIR. I AM TAKING THE INFORMATION FROM TWO DIFFERENT REPORTS.

I am not saying its the gospel but it sure sounds like it might have played a part as Foote never seemed to get an offer here and took a back up job 4 days later. You can admit those events are probably linked, right?

Believe what you like I guess.