Complete Frustration

[PJ1]

Jesus man do you have a quote that Wiz is making all the decisions on draft day? I'm guessing not. So we can bet you assume Graves is calling all the shots then this upcoming April, right? What a straw man argument.

And It's not about being "less" concerned. It's about the evaluation. Maybe the Cardinals team doctors think the foot injury is more susceptiable to being reinjured and the Steelers aren't as worried about the wear and tear as he won't be playing as many snaps. Or maybe its something entirely different. It's not just black and white with these types of things.

I can show you half a dozen times in sports when one teams doctors' have evaluated a player one way, and another has signed/traded for him anyway.

Oh look heres one!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3917505

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4361334

AGAIN I AM NOT JUST PULLING THIS OUT OF THIN AIR. I AM TAKING THE INFORMATION FROM TWO DIFFERENT REPORTS.

I am not saying its the gospel but it sure sounds like it might have played a part as Foote never seemed to get an offer here and took a back up job 4 days later. You can admit those events are probably linked, right?

Believe what you like I guess.

You are dancing all over the place. You have nothing from the Cardinals that says they didn't sign Foote because of an injury. And the Steelers signing him with the guaranteed money they did casts a big doubt on any serious injury coming in to play. I'll take the Steelers signing as carrying more weight than your national reports. The signing is real and the reports you quote are speculative at best.

 

[perivolaki]

You are dancing all over the place. You have nothing from the Cardinals that says they didn't sign Foote because of an injury. And the Steelers signing him with the guaranteed money they did casts a big doubt on any serious injury coming in to play. I'll take the Steelers signing as carrying more weight than your national reports. The signing is real and the reports you quote are speculative at best.

I don't know if injury evaluation had manything to do with not offering Foote but I understand Finest's Point.

I've seen many teams evaluate injurys differently and two organizations come to almost opposite views on a players injury.

I guess thats why they always say to get a second opinion.

I think it is entirely possible that the Cards were uncomfortable with the risk vs. reward of a player with an injury while another team was not.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The bottom line is, we have major holes to fill, especially at the LB position. Relying on filling those positions through the draft, and being forced to draft for need is a loser move. I keep hearing about this "plan", and there is obviously time left. Unfortunately, with even the stopgap options at many of the positions we need no longer available, I'd love to know what this plan is.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

The bottom line is, we have major holes to fill, especially at the LB position. Relying on filling those positions through the draft, and being forced to draft for need is a loser move. I keep hearing about this "plan", and there is obviously time left. Unfortunately, with even the stopgap options at many of the positions we need no longer available, I'd love to know what this plan is.

 

[Assface]

The bottom line is, we have major holes to fill, especially at the LB position. Relying on filling those positions through the draft, and being forced to draft for need is a loser move. I keep hearing about this "plan", and there is obviously time left. Unfortunately, with even the stopgap options at many of the positions we need no longer available, I'd love to know what this plan is.

Getting players through the draft is what winning teams do, the loser move is spending money on other team's free agents because you're not good enough at drafting them yourself.

Here's a little exercise for everyone, list all of our best players and next to their name put whether they were acquired through free agency or the draft. FA is good for filling in some holes here and there but come on, people are getting upset over losing out of Larry Foote. Whoever we bring in to man the WILB spot is going to be nothing more than a placeholder for the first part of the season until whoever our high draft pick is takes over. In the 6 years that he's been a starter Foote has averaged 84 tackles, 3.3 Pdef and .5 int.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Getting players through the draft is what winning teams do, the loser move is spending money on other team's free agents because you're not good enough at drafting them yourself.

Here's a little exercise for everyone, list all of our best players and next to their name put whether they were acquired through free agency or the draft. FA is good for filling in some holes here and there but come on, people are getting upset over losing out of Larry Foote. Whoever we bring in to man the WILB spot is going to be nothing more than a placeholder for the first part of the season until whoever our high draft pick is takes over. In the 6 years that he's been a starter Foote has averaged 84 tackles, 3.3 Pdef and .5 int.

You completely missed my point. Of course drafting well is key to success, and the main reason the Cards have been good the last couple years.

Here's where the problem lies: It's one thing if the roster were loaded with young ILB or OLB that were ready to step in and start, but it isn't. Furthermore, we don't even have the Foote-Porter quality stop gaps that can at least hold down the position until the young players are ready to step in. With almost no options available in free agency, we'll be forced to either play a terrible starter like Paris, or force a rookie to start, which is a complete unknown.

Considering our defense was awful last year, and the only reason we didn't advance in the playoffs, I'd like to believe that there is a plan to adequately replace one of it's best players. Unfortunately, it hasn't seemed to materialize yet, and there seem to be few options available outside of depending on a rookie, a scary proposition.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm willing to bet if the Cards signed Foote, we'd never have heard about any injury concerns from last year.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I guess my question to you is, who do you think is of the mediocre quality band-aid that Foote would have been.

The box of band-aids:
Akin Ayodele
Angelo Crowell
Antonio Pierce
Jeff Ulbrich

I cannot honestly say that I am not frustrated with the non-activity in free agency that the Cardinals have shown.

There is a fine line between "smart business planning" and "cheap". When you are winning then you are a "smart business planner" and when you lose you are "cheap".

I am currently shocked that the Cardinals are going to go with Paris Lenon to play the WILB position this year. I can deal with the risk of relying on Gerald Hayes, and Reggie Walker at one position (we did it last year), but our ONLY WILB is Paris Lenon as of right now. Scary. Then again I am not sure putting Larry Foote's name into the blank spot would make me feel any better.

Right now the Cardinals look doomed to the fate of the 2008 Bengals. Good team, just no linebackers.

As for Joey Porter ? Eh. Porter would be great as a role player, ala Bertrand Berry, but would be counter productive if he took a lot of snaps and time away from our younger players at the position. But still a veteran presence with pass rushing ability would be nice.

What I would like to see the Cardinals do ? Take a flyer on Keith Bulluck. He has garnered no attention from any team (ala Darren Sharper last year). A one legged Bulluck is better than any Larry Foote or FA on the market. As Mitch stated, the Cardinals have the money, and the longer they hold out in the market the less talent will be there, and the less need for that money will be there too.

On a organizational level, the Cardinals cannot get too cute. Lets not spend $50 to save $5. The Cardinals lost big name talent, and have replaced said talent with nothing. It is a hard task to ask a Cardinal fan to be patient.

You cannot say: "Well, the team is re-building and in ____ time things will turn around."

Cardinals fan: "Well, we have been waiting. And every time we have heard this in the past, it was 10 or 20 year before we were even competitive again."

You cannot say: "Well look at the recent sucess we have had"

Cardinals fan: "Yeah, and the last time we had success the organization let all the talent walk out the door, the team pocketted the cash, and we sucked again for another 10 years. And even for the Cardinals, we especially sucked."

Finally you cannot even say "Well, the Cardinals can only......."

That is when the Cardinals fan just walks away saying "Same ol' Cardinals."

I still trust Whiz, I still think this team has talent, but I must say the Cardinals are on really thin ice right now. You are as strong as your weakest link, our linebacking core, both inside and outside is extremely weak. Which seems like a ludicris thing to even say, when you are considered a 3-4 team.

I think there is justifiable frustration at this point, but in the same vein I am a sucker and will hold out hope that "the plan" will come together at some point. But the Cardinals need to keep things in perspective. They are still not viewed as a powerhouse football program. The fair weather fans are a whole 2 years in, max. The economy sucks. etc., etc.

I don't think this organization can recover from a 1999 5 year slide into the bowels of the NFL again. I will not be able to bear watching the Anthony Clement's and Levar Wood's of the NFL world again.

 

[Buckybird]

Rugby, good stuff my man.

 

[Indiana Hoosier]

The one poster hit the nail on the head. We posters know nothing about what really goes on. We wait like all to hear it thru the news media.

 

[Mulli]

I don't see any benefit to getting so frustrated about things out of my control. And games don't even start for 3 months.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't see any benefit to getting so frustrated about things out of my control. And games don't even start for 3 months.

For no good reason.

 

[Mulli]

For no good reason.

Your governor called. He is taking away the internets unless you are rich and contribute to his campaign.

 

[az jam]

I think many of us are frustrated because the Cards lost key starters (Warner, Boldin, Rolle, Dansby) and made a big deal of bringing in Foote and Porter for interviews. The video interview is on the website. They are also $30 million under last year's cap. The fans expected (I did) a big signing announcement.
The Cards PR gave us high expectations. So we got Paris Lenon who is not even listed on the top LB free agent lists (Foote is).

I think the off season so far for the Cards has been a public relation disaster.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Your governor called. He is taking away the internets unless you are rich and contribute to his campaign.

Oh, that is low.

I am prepared:

You must be registered for see images

I can get online with these while waiting for the Sheriff of Nottingham to stop by and collect my taxes. I wonder if they are going to lift me by my ankles and shake me up and down looking for loose change.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[BW52]

I think many of us are frustrated because the Cards lost key starters (Warner, Boldin, Rolle, Dansby) and made a big deal of bringing in Foote and Porter for interviews. The video interview is on the website. They are also $30 million under last year's cap. The fans expected (I did) a big signing announcement.
The Cards PR gave us high expectations. So we got Paris Lenon who is not even listed on the top LB free agent lists (Foote is).

I think the off season so far for the Cards has been a public relation disaster.

I call BS.The Cards have replaced Rolle with Kerry Rhodes.Leinart will replace Warner.Breaston will replace Q and Lenon is a serviceable LB.I trust Graves and Whisenhunt and the offseason still has a long way to go.There is no sense in getting upset over a unfinished product IMO.

 

[JeffGollin]

We're still in the "fog of war" & don't know how things will work out (in terms of both strategies and outcomes).

In the foxhole, "losing it" is seldom helpful.

If things don't work out, there will be plenty of time to dissect what went wrong, what went right and what we might have done differently.

But right now, we're in the "thick of it." The only folks who'll benefit from our getting antsy are the manufacturers of Maalox.

That said - I'm guessing that - on paper - we will enter the next season less strong than we were when we ended last season. I'm not sure what we could have done that would have changed this (maybe nothing - maybe bleep happens) but then will be the time to hold the FO to account; not now.

 

[az jam]

I call BS.The Cards have replaced Rolle with Kerry Rhodes.Leinart will replace Warner.Breaston will replace Q and Lenon is a serviceable LB.I trust Graves and Whisenhunt and the offseason still has a long way to go.There is no sense in getting upset over a unfinished product IMO.

You missed my point. The frustration is making a big deal of bringing in players and not really getting them. You are also rationalizing the impact of losing key players in every place by listing a player of less value. The typical response is trusting Whis & Graves. The Bidwills call the shots and are ultra conservative on spending money. I'm not upset, just see the Cards in a rebuilding year. They will be dependent on the draft to fill holes, that takes time for players to develop. I'm glad they resigned Whisenhunt as he will rebuild the team but will be restricted by a frugal front office.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

....Meanwhile, the Cardinals were smart. They had their plan B in place, and were sure that they could acquire Paris Lenon to a deal under the $3.7M cutoff.

...Get real and have a plan. JMHO.

These two separate posts are within a couple of days of each other. You just seem to be all over the place.

This offseason is the death of us.

 

[Stout]

I call BS.The Cards have replaced Rolle with Kerry Rhodes.Leinart will replace Warner.Breaston will replace Q and Lenon is a serviceable LB.I trust Graves and Whisenhunt and the offseason still has a long way to go.There is no sense in getting upset over a unfinished product IMO.

So you're swallowing the baloney that RG is dishing out on Lenon, eh? Before Foote signed, the team's inside reporter said that Lenon was being looked at as nothing more than a depth/ST player. That's all he's talented enough to be anyway. Suddenly we didn't sign Foote, and RG talks Lenon up a bit, so now you buy it? Not me. If Lenon is our starting WILB, our defense will be amongst the worst in the league.

Other than that, I agree. Rhodes is better than Rolle, IMO. Leinart will have to step up, although it will be no easy task for him. Granted it is hard to see Q go, but Breaston is the guy we need opposite of Fitz going forward.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You missed my point, Shane. The CARDINALS should set the parameters, not the FAs, BEFORE any visit.

That way, there's a visit and a deal pending a physical.

Look at the Bills, they hopped on ILB Andra Davis and had him signed. There was a mutual understanding of what the parameters were.

Define parameters?

1) Who says general parameters were not discussed and understood before Porter's visit?

2) Who says that Bills did or did not discuss the parameters of a deal with Davis' reps before arriving in Buffalo?

 

[Cardiac]

The box of band-aids:
Akin Ayodele
Angelo Crowell
Antonio Pierce
Jeff Ulbrich

I cannot honestly say that I am not frustrated with the non-activity in free agency that the Cardinals have shown.

There is a fine line between "smart business planning" and "cheap". When you are winning then you are a "smart business planner" and when you lose you are "cheap".

I am currently shocked that the Cardinals are going to go with Paris Lenon to play the WILB position this year. I can deal with the risk of relying on Gerald Hayes, and Reggie Walker at one position (we did it last year), but our ONLY WILB is Paris Lenon as of right now. Scary. Then again I am not sure putting Larry Foote's name into the blank spot would make me feel any better.

Right now the Cardinals look doomed to the fate of the 2008 Bengals. Good team, just no linebackers.

As for Joey Porter ? Eh. Porter would be great as a role player, ala Bertrand Berry, but would be counter productive if he took a lot of snaps and time away from our younger players at the position. But still a veteran presence with pass rushing ability would be nice.

What I would like to see the Cardinals do ? Take a flyer on Keith Bulluck. He has garnered no attention from any team (ala Darren Sharper last year). A one legged Bulluck is better than any Larry Foote or FA on the market. As Mitch stated, the Cardinals have the money, and the longer they hold out in the market the less talent will be there, and the less need for that money will be there too.

On a organizational level, the Cardinals cannot get too cute. Lets not spend $50 to save $5. The Cardinals lost big name talent, and have replaced said talent with nothing. It is a hard task to ask a Cardinal fan to be patient.

You cannot say: "Well, the team is re-building and in ____ time things will turn around."

Cardinals fan: "Well, we have been waiting. And every time we have heard this in the past, it was 10 or 20 year before we were even competitive again."

You cannot say: "Well look at the recent sucess we have had"

Cardinals fan: "Yeah, and the last time we had success the organization let all the talent walk out the door, the team pocketted the cash, and we sucked again for another 10 years. And even for the Cardinals, we especially sucked."

Finally you cannot even say "Well, the Cardinals can only......."

That is when the Cardinals fan just walks away saying "Same ol' Cardinals."

I still trust Whiz, I still think this team has talent, but I must say the Cardinals are on really thin ice right now. You are as strong as your weakest link, our linebacking core, both inside and outside is extremely weak. Which seems like a ludicris thing to even say, when you are considered a 3-4 team.

I think there is justifiable frustration at this point, but in the same vein I am a sucker and will hold out hope that "the plan" will come together at some point. But the Cardinals need to keep things in perspective. They are still not viewed as a powerhouse football program. The fair weather fans are a whole 2 years in, max. The economy sucks. etc., etc.

I don't think this organization can recover from a 1999 5 year slide into the bowels of the NFL again. I will not be able to bear watching the Anthony Clement's and Levar Wood's of the NFL world again.

A lot of GREAT points. I'm not as close to the ledge as you sound but I understand the concerns.

My Dream offseason this is not. I think most of us think that with Warner retiring that the D had to be improved dramatically for us to be a good playoff caliber team.

The LBers are a huge question mark at this point. Foote and Porter reteamed with Haggens was a feel good wish. I forgot who posted it but from a PR standpoint the Cards FO screwed this up.

This is my mantra and I share it with anyone who is stressing over this FA period.

Whis is not an idiot and would not have re-signed just for the Cards to suck.

 

[Catfish]

Just like the rest of the posters on this board, I do not have the answers to why we have chosen to pass on the better FA ILB's that were available early on in this FA period. I believe we can all assume that the Cardinals had a plan to address this situatiion. Maybe the plan was to sign a less attractive FA like Foote to be a temporary stop-gap at ILB, and to have him contribute in grooming his replacement.

I do not believe that we needed to work him out to determine what he has left in the tank. The video on his recent play can tell us that. I do believe that it makes sense that they would give him a physical, but I doubt that an injury problem kept us from signing him, as the Steelers were more than willing to plug him into their roster.

To me, that boils down to an interview with him, and how he reacted to what the Cards wished to do with him. Maybe he was adamant about length of contract, or of helping to groom his replacement, or of the peceived value of his presence to our team. Any of those could have become a sticking point to either side of the equasion. Actually, any of them could have also rightfully led the team to decide not to pay what he was asking or to give in to more years than they perceived his value to be worth. Most of all, they should have been able to determine how he would fit into our locker room, and team chemistry. I can only trust that these were the valid reasons we did not sign him, or offer him more.

We have been successful in signing a certain type of personality to this team. The fact that both Porter and Foote have rings, might have led to them coming off as more arrogant than we were willing to accept. If so, then we were probably correct in passing on them, as that is what we let go when we lost both Rolle and Dansby.

Now, we have suddenly dropped out of the Whitehurst hunt, and have signed Derek Anderson to be our back-up QB. This leaves us with an extra 3rd round pick. Maybe they will revisit the RFA's available to fill either the ILB or OLB slot that we are missing. Maybe the logical next step is, (since we were not successful in getting a less costly player), that we use one of our extra picks to acquire a solid performer who is a fit with our team chemistry. Maybe THAT is the next logical step in free agency. We shall see.

Meanwhile, since we still have options left, I would like to believe that will at least look at them to see if we can't make a 'fit' for our club. Barring that, we leave the sollution to draft not one, but two ILB's, and an OLB (pass rusher), to fill the voids. This is tantamount to putting us into the position of choosing correctly on each of this draft picks, which is very unlikely to happen in my opinion. The draft is just not that secure a science or art that we should rely on it to fill positions of need.

Right now, I can only hope that we intend to still use the FA period to fill our positions of need, so that we can go forward and use the draft to take BPA, and thus provide good talent to develop for the future, even if it means spending a draft pick or two to do so.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I call BS.The Cards have replaced Rolle with Kerry Rhodes.Leinart will replace Warner.Breaston will replace Q and Lenon is a serviceable LB.

you had me until this last line... in now way is Lenon serviceable for anything but special teams. Dude wasn't good enough for the Lions, then was demoted on the Rams and is now older and going to have to learn a new position. If he's our answer at LBer, we're in big trouble.

I trust Graves and Whisenhunt and the offseason still has a long way to go.There is no sense in getting upset over a unfinished product IMO.

the problem with the "there's a long way to go/unfinished product" argument is it doesn't take into account that even if you gave them 5, 6 or 7 months, there's not much left out there to finish the unfinished product.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

If Cards do not sign Porter it signals to me that they screwed up... I expected both FOOTE AND PORTER, could live with just Porter, and will be disgusted without both/either.

Our LB Core will be a joke and that is Just plain dumb...