Cooper's Contract?

[MadCardDisease]

It's industry practice for high draft picks not to have offset language. Mark Barron didn't have offset language drafted in the same place last year.

When I get a moment, I'll double-check Jurecki's assertion.

That appears to be changing this year. So far at least 3 of the top 10 have offset language in their contracts.

 

[TJ]

Have to be a pretty good free throw shooter to hit 80% in the NBA. Some shoot a lot less.

If you're an 80% FT shooter on that court, then 20% of the time your wife is pissed at you

 

[Mainstreet]

If you're an 80% FT shooter on that court, then 20% of the time your wife is pissed at you

 

[kerouac9]

That appears to be changing this year. So far at least 3 of the top 10 have offset language in their contracts.

FACT CHECK ON MIKE JURECKI:

Luke Joeckel: No offets
Dion Jordan: Offsets (although it's still a little sketchy)
Lane Johnson: Offset language
Ziggy Ansah: No Offset
Barkevious Mingo: Offset
Tavon Austin: No offset
D.J. Fluker: Offset

Yeah, so half. It's kind of dumb that this is a fight worth having.

 

[LDL]

FACT CHECK ON MIKE JURECKI:

Luke Joeckel: No offets
Dion Jordan: Offsets (although it's still a little sketchy)
Lane Johnson: Offset language
Ziggy Ansah: No Offset
Barkevious Mingo: Offset
Tavon Austin: No offset
D.J. Fluker: Offset

Yeah, so half. It's kind of dumb that this is a fight worth having.

Agree, this is a pretty dumb argument to have on both sides. Perform and you will get yours, don't perform and get what you deserve.

 

[kerouac9]

Agree, this is a pretty dumb argument to have on both sides. Perform and you will get yours, don't perform and get what you deserve.

Also, they're haggling over $800K four years from now. Is it really that big a deal?

 

[BigRedRage]

same boat with warmack

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ing-camp-begins-with-chance-warmack-unsigned/

 

[Darkside]

Also, they're haggling over $800K four years from now. Is it really that big a deal?

Agree. I don't know what's going on but I think this hurts Coop. Everything I read about him was his great character and work ethic and athletic ability, but this is, frankly, baffling to me. It also shows that he could be difficult to work with in the future when renegotiation comes up. I just don't think it looks good.

That being said, the NFLPA got destroyed during their last negotiation and agreement--especially the Vets (lot of short-term deals across the league for "paltry" money) and this could mainly be an indication of the NFLPA and the agents trying to use whatever leverage they still have left.

 

[PDXChris]

Jonathan Cooper ‏@TheUnderDog_64 1m
“@chancewarmack: Patience is an essence and a virtue. #norush” I feel you #Respect

UGG

 

[mwanamatapa]

The offset language impacts when the player receives his signing bonus money. No offset and he gets it all upfront, offset and the bonus money will be spread over the four years. Improves club's cash flow and if there is Hernandez type behavior, it's easier to fight to not pay the player if you haven't handed it over yet.

I think this is on Keim, he should have been proactive in this and negotiated in good faith and not left it until the last minute. I can't blame the player or agent they are just trying to get the best deal.

 

[FrustratedFan04]

The offset language impacts when the player receives his signing bonus money. No offset and he gets it all upfront, offset and the bonus money will be spread over the four years. Improves club's cash flow and if there is Hernandez type behavior, it's easier to fight to not pay the player if you haven't handed it over yet.

I think this is on Keim, he should have been proactive in this and negotiated in good faith and not left it until the last minute. I can't blame the player or agent they are just trying to get the best deal.

But you hold it against the team for trying to get the best deal?

 

[mwanamatapa]

But you hold it against the team for trying to get the best deal?

These clubs make so much money, which comes from the fans, directly or indirectly. No need to squeeze out every last drop.

 

[Bodha]

Stuff like this seriously chaps my ass, especially considering rookie contracts are slotted now.


I know he'll say "My representative is taking care of all that", but they need to put a boot on his throat and tell him to get his Rep in line and get this done.




Off topic - all this "Underdog" stuff Cooper identifies with is ridiculous. How are you an underdog? Youre prototype guard size with exceptional athletic ability. Youre the highest drafted Guard in decades. What makes you an underdog? Because you had a rough upbringing? Welcome to the NFL where thats virtually a requirement.

 

[az jam]

Get it done!

 

[BullheadCardFan]

FO needs to get this done ASAP.

Today it starts for real and any time missed will hurt him.

FO has made some really good and decisive moves this offseason so I am surprised this is taking so long.

 

[PDXChris]

Jurecki just did a great job of explaining the issue and it is not the money itself. It is about offset money if he is released. That means if he is cut after year 4 and signs with another team for 500K below what the Cardinals owe him, then the Cardinals only owe him 500K. Out of the 6 top 10 picks who have signed, three have it and three don't and Coopers agents wants Cooper to double dip if he is released and the Cardinals have never done a contract to allow that and are not going to bend this time.

The offset language impacts when the player receives his signing bonus money. No offset and he gets it all upfront, offset and the bonus money will be spread over the four years. Improves club's cash flow and if there is Hernandez type behavior, it's easier to fight to not pay the player if you haven't handed it over yet.

I think this is on Keim, he should have been proactive in this and negotiated in good faith and not left it until the last minute. I can't blame the player or agent they are just trying to get the best deal.

You post is incorrect. See my above post as Jurecki spend a good amount of time explaining this. Even K9, after his fact check did not disagree with it and as much crap as I gave him yesterday, if he agrees, there is a 99.9% chance it is correct on that alone. This is on the agent 100% as the Cardinals have never done this and never will just like half of the team who have already signed their top 10 pick.

 

[kerouac9]

You post is incorrect. See my above post as Jurecki spend a good amount of time explaining this. Even K9, after his fact check did not disagree with it and as much crap as I gave him yesterday, if he agrees, there is a 99.9% chance it is correct on that alone. This is on the agent 100% as the Cardinals have never done this and never will just like half of the team who have already signed their top 10 pick.

That's not true. Half the teams in the NFL DON'T have offset language. I can't say one way or the other whether Patrick Peterson (the last high pick the Cards had under the new CBA) had offset language. But this is a new issue for every team.

Again, this discussion is about $800K possibly having to be paid four years from now. $800K is nothing to the Arizona Cardinals, but it's quite a bit to a kid getting his first real job.

So who's being petty in this deal?

 

[PDXChris]

That's not true. Half the teams in the NFL DON'T have offset language. I can't say one way or the other whether Patrick Peterson (the last high pick the Cards had under the new CBA) had offset language. But this is a new issue for every team.

Again, this discussion is about $800K possibly having to be paid four years from now. $800K is nothing to the Arizona Cardinals, but it's quite a bit to a kid getting his first real job.

So who's being petty in this deal?

You make good points and are correct, but according to Jurecki, it has been Cardinal policy to do this with coaches for a very long time, so I should have been clear that when I said the Cardinals have always done this, it was usually with coaches in the past.

 

[kerouac9]

You make good points and are correct, but according to Jurecki, it has been Cardinal policy to do this with coaches for a very long time, so I should have been clear that when I said the Cardinals have always done this, it was usually with coaches in the past.

Coaches have a different CBA than the players do. Player contracts pretty consistently have offset language, although not always (Jake Delhomme's Carolina extension didn't have offset language).

I just don't find the "This is how we've always done things and that's not changing" argument very seriously. The industry practice is fairly clear (although that's changing), and the cost is quite minimal.

The Cards never did voidable years and escalators and never would. Until they did.

The Cards never provided injury waivers for OTAs and minicamps and never would. until they did.

 

[PDXChris]

Coaches have a different CBA than the players do. Player contracts pretty consistently have offset language, although not always (Jake Delhomme's Carolina extension didn't have offset language).

I just don't find the "This is how we've always done things and that's not changing" argument very seriously. The industry practice is fairly clear (although that's changing), and the cost is quite minimal.

The Cards never did voidable years and escalators and never would. Until they did.

The Cards never provided injury waivers for OTAs and minicamps and never would. until they did.

Quit making good points, you are making my head hurt.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

This is all about the Agents. If they don't do something to make it look like they are doing their job, they won't have any more clients. I'm sure they get additional money for themselves with the language. Makes me puke.

 

[mwanamatapa]

You post is incorrect. See my above post as Jurecki spend a good amount of time explaining this. Even K9, after his fact check did not disagree with it and as much crap as I gave him yesterday, if he agrees, there is a 99.9% chance it is correct on that alone. This is on the agent 100% as the Cardinals have never done this and never will just like half of the team who have already signed their top 10 pick.

The part of my post about believing that this is on Keim and not the agent or player, is my opinion. You may disagree with my opinion but that does not make my post incorrect.

The other part of the post relates to how much of the bonus money could be involved in offset language, depending on how the deal is structured. It in no way contradicts Jurecki's explanation as I was offering another aspect of what is involved in these types of negotiations.

This offset discussion started with Tannehill (New CBA ) as the Dolphins insisted on the language for him. This year, many teams are trying to get it in to set the precedent for the future high picks. As far as I know Peterson was fully guaranteed with no offset language.

 

[Quinn McCollum]

Kent Somers ‏@kentsomershttps://twitter.com/kentsomers/status/360907254247079936 #azcardinals aren't likely to budge on offset language with Cooper. No one in org has ever had that type of deal, I'm told

 

[az jam]

Kent Somers ‏@kentsomershttps://twitter.com/kentsomers/status/360907254247079936 #azcardinals aren't likely to budge on offset language with Cooper. No one in org has ever had that type of deal, I'm told

What really is the bottom line problem? Lots of posts, but what is the deal that the agent wants that is unprecedented?
Sorry but I'm confused on this.

 

[Quinn McCollum]

What really is the bottom line problem? Lots of posts, but what is the deal that the agent wants that is unprecedented?
Sorry but I'm confused on this.

In a nut shell the deal he wants would make sure he got all his money from his rookie contract even if he was cut early and if he was cut early it would let him go get another contract from another team why still getting the money from his rookie deal from Arizona.

That is my understanding of the deal. But that just what I have read. Can't say that is for sure what is going on.

I myself see this type of deal as a way to get off a team I did not want to play for but still get the money.