Cornerback at #8-My money is on Carlos Rogers (Auburn)

[Lomax to Green 84]

That is "if" we take a cornerback at #8 which is no guarantee. For months I have been trying to figure out why Rogers isn't considered as good or maybe even better than Antrelle Rolle or Pac Man Jones. Most draft experts always lump him in the other category after Rolle and Jones, but from the many games I saw of Auburn (didn't it seem like they were on every week on national tv?), Rogers is special.

Rogers has everything a scout or a draft expert would want. He is big (6' 0" and 200 lbs.), super fast (sub 4.45 speed), was a true shutdown corner in arguably the best conference in college football, and plays for a program that has a rep of developing NFL talent.

My main concern with Antrelle Rolle isn't his 40 time or that he isn't a great player. He sure seems to be. My concern is what I have seen when I have watched Miami games and I see a big corner who is going to get flagged a whole bunch with the NFL 5 yard rule. Rolle prides himself on being physical and abusing wide recievers. The NFL created those rules to combat the Patriots corners (particularly Ty Law). Rolle is often compared to Law in his style of play. Another concern is from what I read in USA Today's Sports Weekly last week. They did a full page article on Rolle and talked a bunch about Rolle going against the Bengals Chad Johnson during offseason workouts. Johnson was quoted in the article as saying that "Rolle will be very good covering the slot reciever and went on to say that he did ok covering Johnson." I read into that statement as saying that Johnson wasn't all to impressed with Rolle's pure cover skills but he didn't want to bash the kid and hurt his draft status. Covering the slot reciever is good, but do you invest a high first round pick on a guy who won't be covering the opposing teams top speed reciever? That statement kind of goes with what Miami had Rolle doing this past season: playing the slot reciever and blitzing. In essence being a hybrid nickle corner and safety instead of a true shutdown corner.

I won't cry if we take Rolle, but if it came down to Rogers or Rolle I would take Rogers. Auburn just had their Pro Day (March 21st), and accoring to Gil Brandt Rogers wowed the scouts in his drills.

 

[kerouac9]

Rogers would be a huge reach at the #8 spot, despite your scouting report.

I have the same concerns about Antrelle Rolle as you do (and Russ, as well); I think he's more suited to play safety. But you don't do a whole lot to combat the fact that Pac Man Jones is the best pure cornerback in this draft, and should be the #8 pick if he falls to us. I'm still not convinced that neither of the Auburn runningbacks will get to us, but if Jones falls, I think we'll take him.

If it's Rolle or a trade-down possibility to somewhere between 12 and 15, I'd take it. You could still get Rogers or a guy Heath Miller at that spot, and pick up a second-round pick to get another cornerback or a runningback.

OT: I think that the OG hysteria on this board is getting out of control. I haven't seen any indications that OG is a high priority for this front office. Maybe another second-day pick will be invested in one long-term, but I'm guessing that another veteran OG will shake out after June 1 that we can pick up to fill the void for another season.

 

[Russ Smith]

Rogers would be a huge reach at the #8 spot, despite your scouting report.

I have the same concerns about Antrelle Rolle as you do (and Russ, as well); I think he's more suited to play safety. But you don't do a whole lot to combat the fact that Pac Man Jones is the best pure cornerback in this draft, and should be the #8 pick if he falls to us. I'm still not convinced that neither of the Auburn runningbacks will get to us, but if Jones falls, I think we'll take him.

.

So you have concerns about my ability to play CB or I have the same concerns about Rolle that you do ?

I think Holian nailed my fears on Rolle, he's a great player, but look at how Miami used him, they used him to wreak havoc not to shutdown WR's. Now earlier in his career when Miami had essentially a first round pick at half of their defensive starter positions, Rolle often DID cover WR's man to man, like Fitz for example. But it's a lot easier to do that with Vince Wilfork, Sean Taylor, DJ Williams, Vilma et al around on the same defense. Miami's defense was still awfully talented this past year but not nearly as experienced and it impacted how much impact Rolle had.

Pacman I don't know he's a remarkable athlete but he gambles so much he's going to be a guy who takes his lumps early in his career. He IS a great return guy too and I guess he's done everything he can to solidify his draft spot but I think he's a classic example of how weak the top of this draft is.
I'm still not all that convinced he's any better than Justin Miller who is the same height, 10 pounds heavier, and had damn near identical 40 times and vertical leaps. Jones ran at pro day, Miller ran at the combine. Miller returns kicks too. Given people are expecting Miller to be there in round 2 and he's actually MORE experienced than Pacman I'm leery of using the 8th pick on Pacman.

That's why I'm so concerned with our current CB situation, the way they call it these days it's damn near impossible for ANY rookie CB to not get eaten alive early in his career, so relying on the draft to solve a starting CB position is a bit scary to me.

 

[Twist18]

Russ,
Do you really think that Miller will be there in the second? I don't see him lasting past the Patriots at the end of the first. I think we will be looking at CBs like Webster, Washington, and Browner.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ,
Do you really think that Miller will be there in the second? I don't see him lasting past the Patriots at the end of the first. I think we will be looking at CBs like Webster, Washington, and Browner.

I guess I should say a lot of mock drafts have him there in the 2nd.

Kiper's latest rating had Rolle, Rogers, Jones and Fabian Washington all rated ahead of Miller who he sees as a 2nd rounder. NFL draftcountdown has the same thing although they have Miller going 29th.

I think we should be looking at the guys you mentioned(not Webster he's too slow to take that high) but from alot the recent mocks I'm seeing Justin Miller
on many people's mocks is a 2nd rounder.

 

[Twist18]

I guess I should say a lot of mock drafts have him there in the 2nd.

Kiper's latest rating had Rolle, Rogers, Jones and Fabian Washington all rated ahead of Miller who he sees as a 2nd rounder. NFL draftcountdown has the same thing although they have Miller going 29th.

I think we should be looking at the guys you mentioned(not Webster he's too slow to take that high) but from alot the recent mocks I'm seeing Justin Miller
on many people's mocks is a 2nd rounder.

If he is there in the second, I wouldn't be opposed to acquiring a high second to grab him. He's a gamer.

 

[mdsisquo]

That is "if" we take a cornerback at #8 which is no guarantee. For months I have been trying to figure out why Rogers isn't considered as good or maybe even better than Antrelle Rolle or Pac Man Jones. Most draft experts always lump him in the other category after Rolle and Jones, but from the many games I saw of Auburn (didn't it seem like they were on every week on national tv?), Rogers is special.

Rogers has everything a scout or a draft expert would want. He is big (6' 0" and 200 lbs.), super fast (sub 4.45 speed), was a true shutdown corner in arguably the best conference in college football, and plays for a program that has a rep of developing NFL talent.

My main concern with Antrelle Rolle isn't his 40 time or that he isn't a great player. He sure seems to be. My concern is what I have seen when I have watched Miami games and I see a big corner who is going to get flagged a whole bunch with the NFL 5 yard rule. Rolle prides himself on being physical and abusing wide recievers. The NFL created those rules to combat the Patriots corners (particularly Ty Law). Rolle is often compared to Law in his style of play. Another concern is from what I read in USA Today's Sports Weekly last week. They did a full page article on Rolle and talked a bunch about Rolle going against the Bengals Chad Johnson during offseason workouts. Johnson was quoted in the article as saying that "Rolle will be very good covering the slot reciever and went on to say that he did ok covering Johnson." I read into that statement as saying that Johnson wasn't all to impressed with Rolle's pure cover skills but he didn't want to bash the kid and hurt his draft status. Covering the slot reciever is good, but do you invest a high first round pick on a guy who won't be covering the opposing teams top speed reciever? That statement kind of goes with what Miami had Rolle doing this past season: playing the slot reciever and blitzing. In essence being a hybrid nickle corner and safety instead of a true shutdown corner.

I won't cry if we take Rolle, but if it came down to Rogers or Rolle I would take Rogers. Auburn just had their Pro Day (March 21st), and accoring to Gil Brandt Rogers wowed the scouts in his drills.

Rogers is a good player by all means. However, he is not anywhere near being worth the #8 pick. He is, IMO, no better (skill wize, not potential-wize) than a late 1st or 2nd rounder. He has had two very sub-par years up until this year. And, he has lingering injury concerns. If we dicide to go RB, then give me Rolle or Pac man at #8.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think Rogers is underrated and could very well be the guy Dennis wants at #8.

But I also think we're getting into that period before the draft where we overanalyze good players right off our draft boards. Rolle's big, he's physical & he has the speed to cover top CB's. And he likes hitting people in run support.

That's a pretty good start.

I'd rather smooth some of the rough edges off a guy like Rolle than to try and make a slower guy faster, a shorter guy taller or a finesse guy more physical.

(Or try to turn a non-playmaker into a playmaker)

 

[Harry]

I think Rodgers would be an excellent choice at the 8. I do agree with Russ that CBs are gambles, but Rodgers has the tools, the attitude and his style fits well with the new rules. I think Rolle is a far bigger gamble. As for Miller, I have him going in round 1, though as I posted about Washington elsewhere, he is on this week's elevator.

 

[WildBB]

I think Rogers is underrated and could very well be the guy Dennis wants at #8.

But I also think we're getting into that period before the draft where we overanalyze good players right off our draft boards. Rolle's big, he's physical & he has the speed to cover top CB's. And he likes hitting people in run support.

That's a pretty good start.

I'd rather smooth some of the rough edges off a guy like Rolle than to try and make a slower guy faster, a shorter guy taller or a finesse guy more physical.

(Or try to turn a non-playmaker into a playmaker)

I couldn't agree more. This is a guy (Rolle) who would've been drafted top seven last year. We start making guys into more than they actually are.

As for the OG furor on this board. It makes sense if the two best ones are there in the 2nd round then it's BPA. I could live 1-CB 2-RB or visa versa though. No Biggie.

 

[ajcardfan]

I couldn't agree more. This is a guy (Rolle) who would've been drafted top seven last year. We start making guys into more than they actually are.

As for the OG furor on this board. It makes sense if the two best ones are there in the 2nd round then it's BPA. I could live 1-CB 2-RB or visa versa though. No Biggie.

I'm not so sure he would've gone in the top 7. I do think he probably would've been picked at #8 over DeAngelo Hall.

1. San Diego QB Eli Manning (traded to NY Giants) QB Mississippi
2. Oakland Robert Gallery OT Iowa
3. Arizona Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
4. New York Giants Phil Rivers (traded to San Diego) QB NC State
5. Washington Sean Taylor FS Miami
6. Cleveland (from Detroit) Kellen Winslow TE Miami
7. Detroit (from Cleveland) Roy Williams WR Texas
8. Atlanta DeAngelo Hall CB Virginia Tech

 

[slanidrac16]

I'm leary about guys who move up in the draft because of combine numbers. Justin Miller was ranked very high( and still is in many publications) and has done nothing to hurt himself.

Also, I think it's crazy to not take a guy at #8 because you think he is only worthy of a the 15th pick. It happens every year. A guy who is drafted 23rd outplays a guy who was drafted 11th.

I am convinced (at this point ) that we will take a cb with the 8th pick. There are just too many rb's available that will "fit" our scheme. I think Green will be happy to imploy the "three headed monster" at running back. What we lack at rb is speed unless you think Josh Scobey is the answer.

Arrington seems to fit that mold AND may be able to be an every down back either this year or in the near future. That brings up the same argument. Some people think Arrington won't be drafted until the 3rd round.

I'm going to need an oxygen tent on draft day if we don't take a rb by the second round.

 

[Toro]

I am sure the Dennis Green will sit down with Dansby and get the scoop on Rogers.

 

[sinsay]

take fabian washgtion

Take fabian in the second round and draft one of the big 3 rb's in the first round.If we have to draft a cb at 8 it better be rolle. He is the only cb worth that high of a pick the rest of them are equal talent wise.One my be faster one my be taller but there is no clear cut number 2 cb. As most people like pacman and others like rogers and some like miller.

 

[JeffGollin]

The Rule of Frequent "Out of the Blue" Mentions (FOBM)

I am hereby presenting a new rule regarding the draft: The FOBM Rule (Frequent "Out of the Blue" Mentions).

Harry has mentioned that he favors Carlos Rogers over Rolle. Holian has also posted similar sentiments about Rogers on this board. And, today, on the Cardinal official website, there's a feature on Rogers.

This despite Rogers generally being rated somewhere between #8 and #14 on most boards.

I've noticed when this sort of buzz occurs, it as often or not becomes a reality.

Personally, I'd be equally ecstatic with either Rolle or Rogers (because they're both big physical corners with most of the other attributes you want). Not because of logic, but, for the reason outlined above, I've just got this growing feeling it's gonna be Rogers.

 

[arizona_cards_11]

I just feel like the cb's in this draft aren't good enough to go top 8. Neither Rogers or Rolle are like a Champ Bailey, and have a sizeable downside. The one thing I can say about the cb position in this draft is that it is extremely deep.
There are no #1 guys, but you can pick up some amazing potential in the 2nd or 3rd round.

If Derrick Johnson would somehow fall down to the #8 spot, I say we take him.
There is less of a bust factor, and can you imagine Dansby and Johnson on the outside.

Also, we could also take Brandon Browner and turn him into a safety. His size and speed reminds me of Adrian Wilson in many ways.

 

[john h]

That is "if" we take a cornerback at #8 which is no guarantee. For months I have been trying to figure out why Rogers isn't considered as good or maybe even better than Antrelle Rolle or Pac Man Jones. Most draft experts always lump him in the other category after Rolle and Jones, but from the many games I saw of Auburn (didn't it seem like they were on every week on national tv?), Rogers is special.

Rogers has everything a scout or a draft expert would want. He is big (6' 0" and 200 lbs.), super fast (sub 4.45 speed), was a true shutdown corner in arguably the best conference in college football, and plays for a program that has a rep of developing NFL talent.

My main concern with Antrelle Rolle isn't his 40 time or that he isn't a great player. He sure seems to be. My concern is what I have seen when I have watched Miami games and I see a big corner who is going to get flagged a whole bunch with the NFL 5 yard rule. Rolle prides himself on being physical and abusing wide recievers. The NFL created those rules to combat the Patriots corners (particularly Ty Law). Rolle is often compared to Law in his style of play. Another concern is from what I read in USA Today's Sports Weekly last week. They did a full page article on Rolle and talked a bunch about Rolle going against the Bengals Chad Johnson during offseason workouts. Johnson was quoted in the article as saying that "Rolle will be very good covering the slot reciever and went on to say that he did ok covering Johnson." I read into that statement as saying that Johnson wasn't all to impressed with Rolle's pure cover skills but he didn't want to bash the kid and hurt his draft status. Covering the slot reciever is good, but do you invest a high first round pick on a guy who won't be covering the opposing teams top speed reciever? That statement kind of goes with what Miami had Rolle doing this past season: playing the slot reciever and blitzing. In essence being a hybrid nickle corner and safety instead of a true shutdown corner.

I won't cry if we take Rolle, but if it came down to Rogers or Rolle I would take Rogers. Auburn just had their Pro Day (March 21st), and accoring to Gil Brandt Rogers wowed the scouts in his drills.

I am still not of the opinion we take a CB at #8. Will a CB be a BPA at #8? If Green is truly a BPA and a CB is #15 on the BPA and a RB #8 or even the Texas LB I see both going before any DB. DB's to me are always risky more so than RB's or LB's. The Cards always seem to surprise us on draft day so I would not place a bet on any of them.

 

[john h]

I think Rogers is underrated and could very well be the guy Dennis wants at #8.

But I also think we're getting into that period before the draft where we overanalyze good players right off our draft boards. Rolle's big, he's physical & he has the speed to cover top CB's. And he likes hitting people in run support.

That's a pretty good start.

I'd rather smooth some of the rough edges off a guy like Rolle than to try and make a slower guy faster, a shorter guy taller or a finesse guy more physical.

(Or try to turn a non-playmaker into a playmaker)

Absent a RB at #8 I am starting to lean towards the Texas LB (Williams?) the more I read about him -if he is available. He will have a lot to do with helping with pass coverage. He sounds like a guy who could start immediately and make an impact. LB's seem easier to judge as to ability than a DB.

 

[john h]

I am hereby presenting a new rule regarding the draft: The FOBM Rule (Frequent "Out of the Blue" Mentions).

Harry has mentioned that he favors Carlos Rogers over Rolle. Holian has also posted similar sentiments about Rogers on this board. And, today, on the Cardinal official website, there's a feature on Rogers.

This despite Rogers generally being rated somewhere between #8 and #14 on most boards.

I've noticed when this sort of buzz occurs, it as often or not becomes a reality.

Personally, I'd be equally ecstatic with either Rolle or Rogers (because they're both big physical corners with most of the other attributes you want). Not because of logic, but, for the reason outlined above, I've just got this growing feeling it's gonna be Rogers.

With the new rules do we want a big physical corner or a very fast one. Seems with the new rules the CB pofile has changed.

 

[joeshmo]

With the new rules do we want a big physical corner or a very fast one. Seems with the new rules the CB pofile has changed.

Just a pet peeve of mine, but there are no new new rules, they are just being enforced.

Anyways, Big Physical corners are not any less effective becuase of the enforcement, they just have to make sure now to let go after 5 yards. The enforcement does not make Jamming at the line any less effective. The only thing the enforcement has done is to make CB's learn when to stop using the physical style(first 5 yards) and turning on the speed and agility style(after 5 yards). You cant have a CB that is good at one or the other anymore but one with skills in both, that is what the new rule enforcement has really done.

You want skills in both then pick Rogers at #8. He is physical, tall, and has the best hip swivel and agility out of any CB in the draft. He blew every other CB away in the 3 cone and shuttle drills at the combine, had the best time out of all of them and had a 4.44 official electronicl time 40 to go along with it.

Or we go with Rolle who will disrupt the heck out a WR's timing in the first 5 yards and even if Rolle cant keep up after the 5 yards using his speed alone there is now way the WR can make up for that lost timing with out our pass rush in the face of the QB.