Coro: Suns lock down frye 5/30m

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If the market is $30M/5yr for Frye, then you don't pay it. Let him walk, sign a hungry scrub for a fifth the cost, and win 42 games instead of 46.

It's unbelievable that this franchise will pay $30 million to Frye in order to be a #7 seed instead of a lottery team, but wouldn't pay $8 million plus some luxury tax to Kurt Thomas to be a title contender instead of a playoff also-ran. Think about that for a moment.

exactly, penny wise/pound foolish.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not sure why Frye gets the hate he gets. He did what was asked of him and presumably they think he can do more. Like with Diaw, I was opposed to paying so much, but Diaw did fine in Charlotte.

it's not hate. i don't hate having frye on this squad. and i appreciate what he brought to the team this past season. but rather, i think this is a bad deal. just b/c i think it's a bad deal doesn't mean that i'm hating on frye. good for him for getting his cash. bad for the suns for tying up $6M/year for a limited player until he reaches age 32. everyone here gets that, right? we'll be paying a limited 32 year old $6M under a new CBA that's likely MORE constricting.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I can't believe all the Frye hate here. This isn't a horrible contract, IMO, it's just a mildly bad contract and the NBA is full of those. I think Sarver made this move for the wrong reason though. I think it was solely to try and stem the panic that is sure to arise when Amare walks away without compensation (or at least fair compensation).

I think we're in for some tough times but it won't be caused by the Frye signing. The loss of Amare and the decline of Nash and Hill will render us lottery bound fairly soon (this upcoming season probably, the next season almost definitely). The only reason I hate the Frye signing is that it's evidence that Sarver will probably try to put a band-aid on the gushing wound that is the Suns. It's time to let this team die gracefully.

Steve

i agree, this contract isn't necessarily an albatross. but i don't think anyone's arguing that. rather, it's further evidence of bad decisionmaking and likely of bad decisionmaking yet to come. one of these bad contracts is a little harmful. but you compound that with similar bad contract after similar bad contract and the next thing you know you've got a team populated purely of dragics, lopezes, dudleys, and multiple fryes. that team is terrific from a chemistry and roleplaying perspective, but ain't winning *****.

also, just b/c the league is full of bad contracts doesn't absolve a team from having one. usually the bad contracts are realized after the fact, not before as this case seems to be . . .

 

[Mainstreet]

it's not hate. i don't hate having frye on this squad. and i appreciate what he brought to the team this past season. but rather, i think this is a bad deal. just b/c i think it's a bad deal doesn't mean that i'm hating on frye. good for him for getting his cash. bad for the suns for tying up $6M/year for a limited player until he reaches age 32. everyone here gets that, right? we'll be paying a limited 32 year old $6M under a new CBA that's likely MORE constricting.

He'll be an expiring contract his fifth year.

Seriously, the Suns had to pay market value or risk losing both Amare and Frye for nothing. I like what Frye brings to the Suns, although he is certainly not a bruiser but he can spread the court. I believe he was worth 20-25M. However, even players like Gooden and Amir Johnson were getting fat contracts. I think a better argument could be made that Amare is not worth the money he will likely receive.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think he is worth it. I thought the absolute max I'd give the guy is 5 year/25 million. I just think that in the scheme of things this is a fairly small issue. We're heading into hard times and the Frye contract is just a minor hiccup. Losing Amare for nothing plus having an owner that thinks he's a decision maker and an injury prone point guard and a roster filled with complementary players worries me a lot more than Frye's 30 million.

Steve

so you don't like the signing, you just hate it less than other issues, so that makes it palatable to you?

that's like saying "i don't like having to drink sweat, but it's not as bad as eating poop, which i also have to do, so i'm good with it."

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He'll be an expiring contract his fifth year.

Seriously, the Suns had to pay market value or risk losing both Amare and Frye for nothing. I like what Frye brings to the Suns although he is certainly not a bruiser. I believe he was worth 20-25M. However, even players like Gooden and Amir Johnson were getting fat contracts. I think a better argument could be made that Amare is not worth the money he will likely receive.

i agree on the amare thing.

but on your other argument, it's a sheep mentality. well, if everyone else is doing it, it can't be wrong, or that bad. WRONG! it's people in this world with foresight that tend to cut against the grain when they see foolish actions that succeed. take a peek at warren buffett. when he saw everyone panicking in 2008 during the market decline what did he do? he wasn't selling and getting outta the market into cash like the sheep. he saw opportunity and was buying. he said something to the effect of, "when other people are scared, i see opportunity. when other's get greedy, i get scared." the signing of all those players to silly contracts smacks of the league being panicked. and what the phoenix sheep do? seemingly (imo) panicked too and joined the flock instead of sitting back, having foresight, and making a shrewd decision that will place them in a better position in the future. hell, the spurs are doing BACKFLIPS that rj opted out of his silly contract. and you don't see them diving into the market. smart ownership. buffett-type ownership. championships.

 

[elindholm]

that's like saying "i don't like having to drink sweat, but it's not as bad as eating poop, which i also have to do, so i'm good with it."

Ladies and gentlemen, your Phoenix Suns!

 

[Mainstreet]

i agree on the amare thing.

but on your other argument, it's a sheep mentality. well, if everyone else is doing it, it can't be wrong, or that bad. WRONG! it's people in this world with foresight that tend to cut against the grain when they see foolish actions that succeed. take a peek at warren buffett. when he saw everyone panicking in 2008 during the market decline what did he do? he wasn't selling and getting outta the market into cash like the sheep. he saw opportunity and was buying. he said something to the effect of, "when other people are scared, i see opportunity. when other's get greedy, i get scared." the signing of all those players to silly contracts smacks of the league being panicked. and what the phoenix sheep do? seemingly (imo) panicked too and joined the flock instead of sitting back, having foresight, and making a shrewd decision that will place them in a better position in the future. hell, the spurs are doing BACKFLIPS that rj opted out of his silly contract. and you don't see them diving into the market. smart ownership. buffett-type ownership. championships.

IMO, the Suns overpaid a max of 10M over 5 years. I can live with that. This is why I am not upset. Now if you didn't want to keep Frye to begin with, I can see your frustration.

 

[AzStevenCal]

so you don't like the signing, you just hate it less than other issues, so that makes it palatable to you?

Nah, that's not the case. I don't like the deal but I hate it less than most of you. I'm bothered (like you) more for the reason they made this deal than the fact they made this deal. We have a weak front office and this is probably not the last stupid decision they'll make this year.

I also think that even if you consider Frye overpaid at his previous salary this deal is far from our biggest concern. And I'm not even saying we shouldn't be complaining about the deal but I do think the "sky is falling because we signed Frye" kind of comments that have popped up here are a bit much. The sky really is falling but Frye's contract isn't the reason.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

So who is the injury prone PG? It can't be Nash if you look at his record of games played.

You are right, I am wrong. That guy who had back, stomach and hip problems only sat out one game so therefore he's not injury prone. It doesn't matter that he killed us in 20 or 30 games that he played injured because, hey, he was on the court. Sorry about the sarcasm, my AC went out yesterday and Sarver still owns the Suns.

Steve

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

IMO, the Suns overpaid a max of 10M over 5 years. I can live with that. This is why I am not upset. Now if you didn't want to keep Frye to begin with, I can see your frustration.

lol, by your very definition you bracket the suns' offense. you explicitly use the word "overpay." by definition that's a bad signing. no business wants to enter into a contract where they "overpay," it's terrible business. and yeah, it may be okay for just one contract, you can weather it. but this team routinely does that, which means they're doing business by always overpaying, or always entering into bad contracts. bad business. no championships.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nah, that's not the case. I don't like the deal but I hate it less than most of you. I'm bothered (like you) more for the reason they made this deal than the fact they made this deal. We have a weak front office and this is probably not the last stupid decision they'll make this year.

I also think that even if you consider Frye overpaid at his previous salary this deal is far from our biggest concern. And I'm not even saying we shouldn't be complaining about the deal but I do think the "sky is falling because we signed Frye" kind of comments that have popped up here are a bit much. The sky really is falling but Frye's contract isn't the reason.

Steve

i think slin is the only chicken little around here. the rest are just saying they don't like the contract. they may be saying the sky is falling, but not b/c of this contract alone, but rather, b/c it's a foreshadowing of things to come. if this piece of the sky falls (frye's bad contract) and it's followed by other poor decisions, then individually they don't make the sky fall, but collectively they cause it to collapse. you have to view each piece in the potential aggregate. a million tiny mistakes are each individually tiny mistakes, but collectively they could ruin anything.

 

[Sunburn]

Everything Ouchie says. He pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the matter but expresses it more articulately.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I can't believe all the Frye hate here. This isn't a horrible contract, IMO, it's just a mildly bad contract and the NBA is full of those. I think Sarver made this move for the wrong reason though. I think it was solely to try and stem the panic that is sure to arise when Amare walks away without compensation (or at least fair compensation).

I think we're in for some tough times but it won't be caused by the Frye signing. The loss of Amare and the decline of Nash and Hill will render us lottery bound fairly soon (this upcoming season probably, the next season almost definitely). The only reason I hate the Frye signing is that it's evidence that Sarver will probably try to put a band-aid on the gushing wound that is the Suns. It's time to let this team die gracefully.

Steve

I agree with you. Frye is a 7 footer that can defend better than Amare and has an outside shot. Lopez will get more inside burn now. Frye is a fit with this team.

Here is what is happening. Frye was signed to replace Amare. He is all offense with slightly better D, and actually rebounds about as well lately.

Warrick was signed to replace Frye.

Lopez will become our primary interior scorer. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. If we can get a TE for Amare, that become powerful. We can use that to take salaries and picks off of teams. An 18m TE is as powerful a tool in rebuilding as having a poor season and better picks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lopez will become our primary interior scorer.

though i cannot argue with you, this is disastrous.

 

[tobiazz]

Here is what is happening. Frye was signed to replace Amare. He is all offense with slightly better D, and actually rebounds about as well lately.

Warrick was signed to replace Frye.

 

[Cheesebeef]

we're going to be fighting for the 8 seed for as long as Nash plays. Yucky.

 

[AzStevenCal]

we're going to be fighting for the 8 seed for as long as Nash plays. Yucky.

Well, aren't you the optimist. I say we're more likely to be fighting for the 10th spot. Yucky plus 2.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, aren't you the optimist. I say we're more likely to be fighting for the 10th spot. Yucky plus 2.

Steve

it'll be the same difference... 10-8 spot is really what I meant.

which means one of two things. next summer I either get to watch us lose AGAIN to the Lakers as a the 8 seed or we get a completely non-impact late lotto pick in the lottery.

oye.

i wish they'd just let the era officially end and we could begin rebuilding.

 

[AzStevenCal]

i wish they'd just let the era officially end and we could begin rebuilding.

Not me. I wish they'd just let the era officially end and we could begin rebuilding. And, I wish they'd just let the era officially end and we could begin rebuilding. Plus, I wish they'd just let the era officially end and we could begin rebuilding. Also, I wish they'd just let the era officially end and we could begin rebuilding. Additionally, I wish they'd just let the era officially end and we could begin rebuilding. Not to mention, ......

Steve

 

[SunsTzu]

i wish they'd just let the era officially end and we could begin rebuilding.

The funny part is they'll have to give up assets to unload the most recent signings should they go into rebuild mode.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The funny part is they'll have to give up assets to unload the most recent signings should they go into rebuild mode.

hilarious.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The funny part is they'll have to give up assets to unload the most recent signings should they go into rebuild mode.

That's really not a problem. You just package them with Goran and 2 unprotected 1st round picks and Utah or someone like that will be glad to take them off our hands.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

lol, by your very definition you bracket the suns' offense. you explicitly use the word "overpay." by definition that's a bad signing. no business wants to enter into a contract where they "overpay," it's terrible business. and yeah, it may be okay for just one contract, you can weather it. but this team routinely does that, which means they're doing business by always overpaying, or always entering into bad contracts. bad business. no championships.

I used the word "overpaid " as to what I think a players value is actually worth. However, "market value" is what one has to pay buy a product. I complain about prices most times I go shopping, but this is what you have to pay if you want the product. I can complain to the manager but it usually doesn't change the outcome. I don't view Frye as a bad contract, just more expensive that what I would have liked to have seen paid. Again, if you didn't want the Suns to keep Frye then I understand your stance. The market said Frye was worth 5 years, 30M.

 

[elindholm]

I complain about prices most times I go shopping, but this is what you have to pay if you want the product. I can complain to the manager but it usually doesn't change the outcome.

So you head into the supermarket thinking, "I want some steak." Then you see that the steak is $15 per pound. You think, "Gee, I wanted steak, but not that much. I'll get by with chicken instead for a third the price." Problem solved.

The problem with this analogy is that Frye is not exactly steak-quality.