CP not going to the ProBowl because ...

Chris_Sanders

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quoted as saying "going to let my finger heal."

WTF? everyone and their mama kept saying it was fine. :shrug:

It was never fine. I read an article where he adjusted his throwing motion for the Green Bay game and it was initially good but then he was incredibly sore the next day

So rather than risk him having muscle tear, they just had him tape it and play. The problem is if you have a muscle tear or a break in your fingers, using it repeatedly wouldn't help either.
 

Shaggy

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Then they should of played Stanton.

They didn't tell the whole story IMO and that IMO cut the heart out of the team. I know what they were doing but it was never going to work.

The medical reality of that injury should of told them so. What happened was always going to happen and faking it through a Super Bowl run was NOT going to happen.

So it was a horrible chicken poop decision that isn't reflective of manning up and just being honest.

I know why they tried to hide it from the world to protect the illusion they could win but then can you blame the team for not wanting to play out a manufactured story?

That and then still asking him to throw deep was not the best idea IMO.

The other teams knew and smelled blood. We were doomed when he hurt it.

In fact Stanton was our best chance that moment on. Either he rose to the occasion or we were toast like you just saw.

Now you just took 10 steps backwards IMO on telling it like it is and the whole team calls BS on you.

Really unnecessary when the truth would of solved the entire thing.

Like Palmer was going to sit the bench in a playoff game.
 
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DeAnna

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It was never fine. I read an article where he adjusted his throwing motion for the Green Bay game and it was initially good but then he was incredibly sore the next day

So rather than risk him having muscle tear, they just had him tape it and play. The problem is if you have a muscle tear or a break in your fingers, using it repeatedly wouldn't help either.

Then their credibility is shot because they kept blatanly lying about it. Stupid.
 

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Then their credibility is shot because they kept blatanly lying about it. Stupid.

Teams & coaches rarely tell the opponent the truth about how bad a player is hurt for obvious reasons. But if you wanna believe others it was a non factor. A sprinter with a bad hammy is as well ;) lol
 

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Then their credibility is shot because they kept blatanly lying about it. Stupid.

Belicheck does it every damn game. Even in preseason. All of the NHL does the same thing. You don't let your opponent know there is a problem, because it would enable the opponent to make a better game plan. Plus, a player might consider putting him out of the game if they could get a hold of that finger.

It was good coaching by Arians, and good following directions by Palmer, to downplay it as much as possible.
 

conraddobler

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Belicheck does it every damn game. Even in preseason. All of the NHL does the same thing. You don't let your opponent know there is a problem, because it would enable the opponent to make a better game plan. Plus, a player might consider putting him out of the game if they could get a hold of that finger.

It was good coaching by Arians, and good following directions by Palmer, to downplay it as much as possible.

I understand what you're saying and I agree with it.

What I mean is where he said Stanton is good enough to win a SB with. Um he doesn't mean that because well he doesn't.

That is typical BA bravado that risks making your team groan and discredit what you are saying.

I understand not telling anyone how bad his finger is if you're going to play him you have no choice but to say everything is fine.

I guess I question his logic on playing him with it. It was always a bluff that had no chance of not being called.
 

ajcardfan

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I understand what you're saying and I agree with it.

What I mean is where he said Stanton is good enough to win a SB with. Um he doesn't mean that because well he doesn't.

That is typical BA bravado that risks making your team groan and discredit what you are saying.

I understand not telling anyone how bad his finger is if you're going to play him you have no choice but to say everything is fine.

I guess I question his logic on playing him with it. It was always a bluff that had no chance of not being called.

i definitely wish we could go back in time and start Stanton considering how the game went. But, maybe Palmer still looked better than Stanton in practice, even with his bum finger. That would be something only the team and the coaches would know. If Stanton was throwing much better passes than Palmer last week.... then yeah, Arians made a decision with his heart rather than his head.
 
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DeAnna

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It's obvious the finger was a problem to anyone with eyes.

And obvious to all the opponents. Saying the opposite is going to convince them otherwise? Like they don't watch tape and come to the same conclusion?
Just makes them (including Bellichek) look stupid.
 

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Excuses excuses excuses.... everyone wants to believe the finger was the problem because it means Palmer will be a different QB next season when it heals up. News flash... it is not the finger. Roll tape on the games in this season pre-finger when Carson had bad games, at least to start, which coincidentally were some of the most hyped games (Steelers, Bengals, etc). The moment was so big he couldn't control his nerves. He was sailing balls like crazy. He himself admits he gets butterflies, which is understandable, but his negatively affect him, not positively. He needs to find a way to get mentally prepared for these games.

Palmer has always had the problem of being inconsistent and trying to force balls. He becomes a liability because he thinks he is the best player on the field, or at the very least doesn't understand you can't always be the hero, you can't make every play go your way.

When he understands to take what the D gives and consistently gives up on plays that aren't there is when he will become a consistent asset like top tier QBs and not someone you are always wondering "which Palmer will we see today?"

He played quite well throughout the regular season with some exceptions, but there were the same questions at times on which Palmer would show up because he had his share of bad games that we still won. When he played well he played smart. You saw him throw the ball away a fair amount and he also wasn't taking the low percentage big payoff plays at poor times. I'm sure he did throw a ball or two away, but I can't think of many times where he threw the ball away in the last few games. He started believing the hype that he was the best or one of the best in league so the chips would just fall his way, double or triple coverage be damned.

Palmer was always one of our biggest liabilities... if he had an OK game or better we would be in a position to win. If he didn't protect the ball, which has been a problem especially at key times (red zone!) along with pockets of inaccuracy, it was going to be a tough hill to climb.

This is what is crazy about this last game... if Palmer didn't put up huge numbers but just protected the ball the game would have been in reach, even with the less than stellar play everywhere else. The person who bears the most responsibility for the loss, or at the very least the score, is Palmer. It's simple math, you can't deny it. He could have throw the ball OB on any of those picks and the score would be wayyy different. Even if he took a knee on those the score would be way different.

If the finger was really a problem why did he keep looking to the medium long and long balls, and not take the open receivers on the short and intermediate routes? Simply put, he was on a big stage and wanted to prove he was a great QB instead of playing smart football, and it made him look like a clown. He wanted to have a huge highlight moment play instead of grinding it out and it cost us.

What also pisses me off is the whole "first X plays are scripted" crap. That is dumb. To say you have a select basket of plays to choose from at first is one thing, but that is the mentality that you can just outplay and impose your will and not play smart football and exploit the defense. I think the reason they do this is because they don't play so much based on defensive looks. BA is at ground level and can't see the field like a normal OC can so he calls the scripted plays because there is no real-time adjustment because he can't see the field like an OC can. Committing to plays regardless of what the defense is doing is no different than committing to throwing to a certain receiver regardless of the coverage. Palmer really needs to be audibling more if this is a trend that will continue IMO.

I get Palmer is competitive, but I think he is trying too hard. When he can set the ego or whatever it is that is driving him to think he is capable of putting the game on his back at any time and instead just learn to play a smart game and protect the ball above all else... that is when he will be able to live up to the big moments and play more consistently.
 

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I'm thinking some may underestimate Arians. In his first coaching gig at Temple he ran the wishbone when he had a strong mobile QB, next season he got a blazing fast back and ran the triple option, and when he finally had an accurate QB he ran an aerial downfield attack. This guy can adapt. He has shown the willingness and trust to use David Johnson early and often, and that should be our offensive centerpiece going forward.

Make no mistake, he will always take risks and chuck it downfield with Palmer, who is pretty good at it. But DJ can be our own Jamal Charles or Matt Forte, who can do it all and carry our offense. We won't become a run heavy team, that would be a waste with the WR talent we have. But having a dangerous ground game along with checkdown options to DJ will allow Palmer to be more of a game manager than up until now. And while the game manager label is widely considered negative, it will open up our offense in that not only the deep and intermediate stuff must be respected. Also the bombs downfield will work better with the underneath threat of DJ.

Bottom line to me is that Arians is the type of guy that adapts, and it will help Palmer in such games. Good thing is we have the personel in house for the most part, so the draft can be defense heavy. I don't see the decline most predict here. About 26 other teams would kill to have Palmer as QB, even more if he were younger, and 30 others have even more glaring needs overall. This loss hurts and is embarassing, but if somebody bounces back it's Arians.
 
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conraddobler

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Excuses excuses excuses.... everyone wants to believe the finger was the problem because it means Palmer will be a different QB next season when it heals up. News flash... it is not the finger. Roll tape on the games in this season pre-finger when Carson had bad games, at least to start, which coincidentally were some of the most hyped games (Steelers, Bengals, etc). The moment was so big he couldn't control his nerves. He was sailing balls like crazy. He himself admits he gets butterflies, which is understandable, but his negatively affect him, not positively. He needs to find a way to get mentally prepared for these games.

Palmer has always had the problem of being inconsistent and trying to force balls. He becomes a liability because he thinks he is the best player on the field, or at the very least doesn't understand you can't always be the hero, you can't make every play go your way.

When he understands to take what the D gives and consistently gives up on plays that aren't there is when he will become a consistent asset like top tier QBs and not someone you are always wondering "which Palmer will we see today?"

He played quite well throughout the regular season with some exceptions, but there were the same questions at times on which Palmer would show up because he had his share of bad games that we still won. When he played well he played smart. You saw him throw the ball away a fair amount and he also wasn't taking the low percentage big payoff plays at poor times. I'm sure he did throw a ball or two away, but I can't think of many times where he threw the ball away in the last few games. He started believing the hype that he was the best or one of the best in league so the chips would just fall his way, double or triple coverage be damned.

Palmer was always one of our biggest liabilities... if he had an OK game or better we would be in a position to win. If he didn't protect the ball, which has been a problem especially at key times (red zone!) along with pockets of inaccuracy, it was going to be a tough hill to climb.

This is what is crazy about this last game... if Palmer didn't put up huge numbers but just protected the ball the game would have been in reach, even with the less than stellar play everywhere else. The person who bears the most responsibility for the loss, or at the very least the score, is Palmer. It's simple math, you can't deny it. He could have throw the ball OB on any of those picks and the score would be wayyy different. Even if he took a knee on those the score would be way different.

If the finger was really a problem why did he keep looking to the medium long and long balls, and not take the open receivers on the short and intermediate routes? Simply put, he was on a big stage and wanted to prove he was a great QB instead of playing smart football, and it made him look like a clown. He wanted to have a huge highlight moment play instead of grinding it out and it cost us.

What also pisses me off is the whole "first X plays are scripted" crap. That is dumb. To say you have a select basket of plays to choose from at first is one thing, but that is the mentality that you can just outplay and impose your will and not play smart football and exploit the defense. I think the reason they do this is because they don't play so much based on defensive looks. BA is at ground level and can't see the field like a normal OC can so he calls the scripted plays because there is no real-time adjustment because he can't see the field like an OC can. Committing to plays regardless of what the defense is doing is no different than committing to throwing to a certain receiver regardless of the coverage. Palmer really needs to be audibling more if this is a trend that will continue IMO.

I get Palmer is competitive, but I think he is trying too hard. When he can set the ego or whatever it is that is driving him to think he is capable of putting the game on his back at any time and instead just learn to play a smart game and protect the ball above all else... that is when he will be able to live up to the big moments and play more consistently.

I think you make a lot of good points.

I prefer an OC in the booth for the reason you're mentioning although I think with the tablets and things the adjustment time frame is shorter there is still nothing like seeing the field yourself to know make quicker adjustments.

On your point about scripting plays I also agree.

We really don't know exactly what's said between the two of them to me though what that game called for was a better understanding all week between the two of them.

His deep throws weren't working and if the two of them were on the same page BA could of said it's alright don't force this we're going to have to take what they give us.

It's like a pitcher on the mound needs a visit from the catcher or something I kinda think there is a disconnect between the two.

BA has to know his players better. His QB was having a panic attack, heck his team was having a panic attack. Maybe BA isn't that soothing in that situation some guys are, some guys just chew ass, but whatever your team responds to do that.

In that specific situation it almost calls for a timeout just to tell everyone calm down it'll be alright just make the plays they give you don't force things. I know if we get back there and this starts again that's exactly what I'd do.
 
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Cheesebeef

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all those who think the finger completely screwed up, are a lot of the same people that believed the Seattle game meant absolutely nothing and wasn't indicative of anything and was a meaningless game. Does that now mean Arians was a complete and utter idiot playing what you believe to be an obviously injured Palmer in a meaningless game... or maybe, just maybe, were we actually were playing to win and just got destroyed? I mean, why play Palmer in that game if he was that jacked up?

again... that was a game where the Hags rested a BUNCH of starters and we rested NO ONE, even apparently our QB who y'all believe was really injured with his finger. Reality is, when the chips were down at the end of the season, this team looked like crap for three straight games. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 

conraddobler

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all those who think the finger completely screwed up, are a lot of the same people that believed the Seattle game meant absolutely nothing and wasn't indicative of anything and was a meaningless game. Does that now mean Arians was a complete and utter idiot playing what you believe to be an obviously injured Palmer in a meaningless game... or maybe, just maybe, were we actually were playing to win and just got destroyed? I mean, why play Palmer in that game if he was that jacked up?

again... that was a game where the Hags rested a BUNCH of starters and we rested NO ONE, even apparently our QB who y'all believe was really injured with his finger. Reality is, when the chips were down at the end of the season, this team looked like crap for three straight games. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


If you watch hockey the St. Louis Blues effort in the playoffs the last few years reminds me of our teams efforts. Blazing regular season get to the playoffs total disappearing act.

They finally blew up the roster because they couldn't fix that.

Now I have friends who watch all the time and I used to be an avid hockey fan but since the Blues have been so crappy and I lived in KC I kinda just quit caring so I get back to St. Louis all my buddies are dude the Blues are great then I'd sit down last year and the year before to watch and I was like ...um these guys have zero heart. All the guys were so mad at me for saying that you'd think I was insulting their mother but it was OBVIOUS. Playoff hockey is a war WAR I tell you it's a game of survivor you have to fight like a **** just to live through it. The players were just not doing that.

Then of course it was either fire the coach or get rid of the players and management sided with the coach. We need a few more warriors it seems.

BA is still a new HC the thing is playoff football is a war. Who do you want to go to war with?

I hear you I have reservations about some players too but most of them are stuck here so in that case BA better coach his ass off.
 
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SoCal Cardfan

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When I first clicked this thread, I thought for sure the answer was:

Because the offer was rescinded. :D



I kid!

There is only about 6 or 7 QB's I would take over Carson.
I wish his finger was 100% for that game, then we would know if he just choked under the pressure, If Carson had played his best game, it would still be hard to convince me we had a chance.....Our D had no answer for Cam, even before they were exhausted.
 

Cheesebeef

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those guys all use whatever excuse they can to get out of the Pro-Bowl. Rodger's officially bailed last week because his ego was bruised after not getting to recall the coin flip.

like I said...

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2016/01/26/of-seven-cards-pro-bowlers-only-two-to-play/

the idea that Palmer skipping the Pro Bowl is proof positive his finger was the real problem in the playoffs and against Seattle (even though he had a 66% completion rate and played well against the Packers) doesn't hold much weight to me.
 

ajcardfan

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like I said...

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2016/01/26/of-seven-cards-pro-bowlers-only-two-to-play/

the idea that Palmer skipping the Pro Bowl is proof positive his finger was the real problem in the playoffs and against Seattle (even though he had a 66% completion rate and played well against the Packers) doesn't hold much weight to me.

Hell, it's almost more surprising when players selected DO go than don't go to the Pro Bowl. The only player selected at QB who will be there is Wilson.
 

SoCal Cardfan

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I'm done pondering if Carson's finger was the main issue here, truth be told, even if he was 100 percent and played his best game, the defense and ST play all but guaranteed us a loss.

Cam could have taken the snap and retied his shoes.... before even scanning for a receiver on most plays
 

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