Crazy thought...don't make any trades

[elindholm]

Heh, good one capologist!

Chris_Sanders:

You really go for the throat when you don't agree with someone, to the point you trash their view entirely. I don't know if you intend that, but that is what I see.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I disagree with your characterization of the majority of my posts, but that's okay -- at least you're letting me know what the problem is.

If someone is reaching a conclusion based on faulty evidence, I will point out where I think the evidence is faulty, but it's not (usually) intended personally. But some people find that insulting. I don't mean to sound stubborn, but I'm not going to change the way I discuss things. I don't think that any real exchange of understanding can take place unless people really think about why they believe what they do.

So, carry on! Now I'll know why I'm on your S-list, and that will make it easier.

 

[Chaplin]

You cant think of a reason to be happy about the Suns but you are insulted about the "sad self" comment? I'm MORE insulted that you can't think of any reasons to get so happy over? Ever hear of AMARE or MARION? What about the other numerous young talent we have? Cap space? Draft pick? ANYTHING??

IMO, he was referring to the "excessive negativity" that Chris was talking about. He never said he wasn't a Suns fan and negative about our chances in the future.

 

[capologist]

In fact, if we didn't disagree all the time, would this board be as crowded? Absolutely not, it'd just be a big bore.

BS. This site could be extremely active and fascinating without any disagreements whatsoever.

(Just trying to do my part...)

 

[Chaplin]

Heh, good one capologist!

Chris_Sanders:

You really go for the throat when you don't agree with someone, to the point you trash their view entirely. I don't know if you intend that, but that is what I see.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I disagree with your characterization of the majority of my posts, but that's okay -- at least you're letting me know what the problem is.

If someone is reaching a conclusion based on faulty evidence, I will point out where I think the evidence is faulty, but it's not (usually) intended personally. But some people find that insulting. I don't mean to sound stubborn, but I'm not going to change the way I discuss things. I don't think that any real exchange of understanding can take place unless people really think about why they believe what they do.

So, carry on! Now I'll know why I'm on your S-list, and that will make it easier.

Chris, Eric and I have frequently not gotten along on these boards. And it's gotten uncomfortable at times.

But just one thing. We both respect each other and at the end of the day, we respect each other's opinions. We are both 2 of the longest tenurred posters and yet have no worries about continuing in that capacity.

BTW, where is that actual moderator of this forum? Joe, where are you???

 

[elindholm]

Some of us get together now and then away from the board and I have been told that yes, the negativity does in fact turn people away.

I'm sure that's true. But sanitized happiness without frank discussion would turn other people away.

So the question is, which group do you want to keep? Those interested in the truth, or those interested in making one another feel good?

 

[Djaughe]

If it means anything to anyone - I like the thoughts put into this suns board as well as the hidden insights and the subscription articles.

Are some folks more knowledgeable than others...sure...Can some folks be a little less demeaning...absolutely. I'm sure everyone can agree with that without having to study every post looking for hidden messages.

 

[Chaz]

The Suns were horrible to start the season last year but I think they showed some very nice improvement with a coaching change and the focus being switched to different players (JJ and Amare).

What ever they do I hope they don't lose the momentum and chemistry they seemed to be developing at the end of the season. I want the Suns to win a championship I think everyone(here) does but I don't want to sell the farm to bring in the crop so to speak. I like the general makeup of the team as it is. They need some additions but I agree with Chris, now is the time to be patient, not the time blow it up or get the one addition to put them over the top. Right now I think the Suns have a great long term future I would not like to see them give that up for a short term run.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You cant think of a reason to be happy about the Suns but you are insulted about the "sad self" comment? I'm MORE insulted that you can't think of any reasons to get so happy over? Ever hear of AMARE or MARION? What about the other numerous young talent we have? Cap space? Draft pick? ANYTHING??

Amare who? Is he Italian? Come on man - If you ask anyone on this baord - I've been hugley optimistic about thwta this team COULD be next year if the right moves are made because we have a base - ah, forget it - you obviously didn't read the rest of my posts or are just looking for someone to dump on - dump away.

 

[pokerface]

Hey Chris, all kidding aside.

Why are you so down on me? For at least a year now, you've gone out of your way to put me down whenever finding the smallest window of opportunity. I'm trying to figure out why this is. I know we had a bit of an argument about Skiles years ago, with me saying that it was possible to get an impression of his personality by watching him coach and you saying (more or less) that it wasn't possible without getting to know him personally. Is it still that? I don't think I've done anything since then that should warrant such ire.

You're prior excessive Marion bashing didnt win me over none...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am just saying lets be a little more cool to each other.

I think everyone kinda jumped all over the "negativity" thing whereas I think, and correct me if I'm wrong here Chris - it's the attitudes towards each other is the thing the Skkorp and really everyone else is talking about - well unless you're Pokerface (I keed, I keed).

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Some of us get together now and then away from the board and I have been told that yes, the negativity does in fact turn people away.

I'm sure that's true. But sanitized happiness without frank discussion would turn other people away.

So the question is, which group do you want to keep? Those interested in the truth, or those interested in making one another feel good?

Again Eric I am not saying sanitized happiness. I am saying that we all need to understand that we are all fans and respect each other's opinions a little bit more.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're prior excessive Marion bashing didnt win me over none...

dude - are you just looking to pick fights right now? Slow day at work?

 

[elindholm]

You're prior excessive Marion bashing didnt win me over none...

I have not done any "excessive bashing" of Marion. Ever since he was prematurely offered a huge extension, I have questioned the wisdom of that decision. I've also said I think there's a good chance he'll be traded this summer. But I've never said he was a bad player, and I've certainly never attacked other posters personally for saying that he's a good player.

It just hasn't happened.

 

[Cheesebeef]

by the way guys - this thread had to be overtaken by our 5 year old versions of ourselves cause we all sound like a bunch of whining babies.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

by the way guys - this thread had to be overtaken by our 5 year old versions of ourselves cause we all sound like a bunch of whining babies.

True

Let's have a beer.

 

[elindholm]

I am saying that we all need to understand that we are all fans and respect each other's opinions a little bit more.

But which is more respectful if you disagree with someone?

1. Shrug and basically ignore them.
2. Challenge them to investigate why they hold the opinion that they do.

I consider (2) to be more respectful. There is no disrespect like being ignored. Taking these issues apart requires effort -- you think I (or anyone else) would bother to do that for someone that I don't respect? There are some people on this board I won't bother to disagree with, but that's because (sorry) they seem hopeless, so there's no point trying to engage them intellectually.

When another thoughtful poster responds to my posts, I take it as a compliment, even if they disagree. Apparently other people don't see it that way, but, in my opinion, they should.

 

[pokerface]

Boy...Instead of a few people posting a few more positives about the Suns they'd rather bash Chris for suggesting it.

Constant downers and Laker fans dont have automatic rights to this board. Last I understood this is a private board and the powers that be running it can do anything they want...suggest anything they want. This isnt a democracy....but like a Kingdom. We hope we have a pleasant/tolerant King but we are being ruled all the same! Instead of getting hurt feelings you best adjust some attitudes...or they might be hurting without this board to vent on.

 

[Chaplin]

pokerface, you are taking this all the wrong way, leading to exactly what Chris has been talking about.

The problem is not the request for more civility--in fact, most people on this thread have said it might be nice to lighten up a bit. What bothers a lot of us is the threat that there might be bannings down the line simply because there is some "negativity" and it doesn't attract new posters.

To me, that's wrong, and has no place, especially now when we're right in the middle of a tense and exciting period in Suns history.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am saying that we all need to understand that we are all fans and respect each other's opinions a little bit more.

But which is more respectful if you disagree with someone?

1. Shrug and basically ignore them.
2. Challenge them to investigate why they hold the opinion that they do.

I consider (2) to be more respectful. There is no disrespect like being ignored. Taking these issues apart requires effort -- you think I (or anyone else) would bother to do that for someone that I don't respect? There are some people on this board I won't bother to disagree with, but that's because (sorry) they seem hopeless, so there's no point trying to engage them intellectually.

When another thoughtful poster responds to my posts, I take it as a compliment, even if they disagree. Apparently other people don't see it that way, but, in my opinion, they should.

Hey I am all for #2 as long as it doesn't involve trying to make the other person look bad or feel dumb.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

pokerface, you are taking this all the wrong way, leading to exactly what Chris has been talking about.

The problem is not the request for more civility--in fact, most people on this thread have said it might be nice to lighten up a bit. What bothers a lot of us is the threat that there might be bannings down the line simply because there is some "negativity" and it doesn't attract new posters.

To me, that's wrong, and has no place, especially now when we're right in the middle of a tense and exciting period in Suns history.

Well I hope I clarified that a bit. No one is getting banned or anything like that. It is just relaying a request that the boards are not so negative. I wouldn't have even brought it up...except for the fact that the board has been REALLY negative lately and people are taking notice.

 

[Chaplin]

Well I hope I clarified that a bit. No one is getting banned or anything like that. It is just relaying a request that the boards are not so negative. I wouldn't have even brought it up...except for the fact that the board has been REALLY negative lately and people are taking notice.

I think it would help if you (or the moderator) quoted some examples, because I haven't seen it being so bad recently.

And for the record, I also am a moderator and I never heard anything about this.

 

[SweetD]

True

Let's have a beer.

Can I trade my beer for a center?

 

[elindholm]

Hey I am all for #2 as long as it doesn't involve trying to make the other person look bad or feel dumb.

Fair enough. Can you PM me a list of polite ways to say, "You have no idea what you're talking about"? Because, unfortunately, sometimes that is the case, and it's difficult to continue the discussion without, um, pointing that out.

When I make factual errors here, someone calls me on them. No big deal. I thank the other poster for the correction and issue a retraction. It doesn't make me feel dumb or worthless -- I made a mistake, and someone corrected it. Learn from it and move on.

Anyway, we've run this into the ground. Go ahead and take the last word with whatever you post in response to this.

 

[SweetD]

......

See look how well the ignore feature works I like.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Boy...Instead of a few people posting a few more positives about the Suns they'd rather bash Chris for suggesting it.

Constant downers and Laker fans dont have automatic rights to this board. Last I understood this is a private board and the powers that be running it can do anything they want...suggest anything they want. This isnt a democracy....but like a Kingdom. We hope we have a pleasant/tolerant King but we are being ruled all the same! Instead of getting hurt feelings you best adjust some attitudes...or they might be hurting without this board to vent on.

constant downers? Pokerface - i see you have 65 posts which means you're relatively new here - so before you go pinpointing who everyone is - maybe you need to spend a little more time here before you go attacking people or labeling them - because I personally don't remember to many "downers" here when we gave the Spurs everything they could handle or that entire season two years ago when we were all pleasantly surprised with that team - relax man and take a deep breath. The only person who is continuing to act in a manner opposite of ehat Chris is talking about is you right now. Chill out.