Culpepper to Cardinals??

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Is moklerman beginning to remind anyone of a certain Shaun King fan who graced our boards last year?

 

[joeshmo]

but I also believe the o-line and rb's are better (right now) there too.

I wouldnt be to fast in saying that. Their Interior of their oline is a complete shambles worse then ours maybe: LG - Chris Lewinski???, C - Melvin Fowler???, RG Adam Goldberg???. Their RT - Rosenthal is having a bad bad year, and the only guy playing anything of worth is Bryant McKinnie.

We also have a better D. And we have a bad OL and Run Game this year, we dont know what we will have next year.

 

[CaptTurbo]

The other thing is a guy like him might help you in recruiting free agents, might I say because I don't really know what the perception around the league is about him, saying he's going to fine teammates may not sit too well around the league. But on talent I think it's easier to convince Joe Right guard to sign with us we have Culpepper, than sign with us we have McCown and Warner.

Very good point. I think he would help in recruitment as well.

But the important question is, what would his price tag be to keep?

 

[moklerman]

I wouldnt be to fast in saying that. Their Interior of their oline is a complete shambles

I realize they're not particularly good but there are very few, if any examples of o-line's that are playing worse than Arizona's right now. As bad as Minnesota's situation is, they are still able to rush the ball a little bit and have scored rushing td's (I think). Both units are poor but I think Minnesota has the edge.

We also have a better D. And we have a bad OL and Run Game this year, we dont know what we will have next year.

No, from year to year you never know which team will be the surprise parity team of the year but has Dennis Green given you reason to expect the o-line and running game to miraculously improve next year?

Is moklerman beginning to remind anyone of a certain Shaun King fan who graced our boards last year?

I'm assuming you're referring to my support of Kurt Warner. I'd hardly call being optimistic about a qb regaining his form comparable to arguing Shaun King will magically become an NFL starter for some reason.

but here he'd have Boldin and Fitz we've already seen proof that they can make the QB look better

Please elaborate on that. I can't think of which qb you're referring to. As far as I can remember they haven't made McCown, King, Navarre or Warner put up numbers better than they usually do.

The other thing is a guy like him might help you in recruiting free agents

This is a good point and I'll go the next step and say that Culpepper would put fans in the seats, too. But, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how good he might be. It's obvious that at least a few fans would be thrilled with him but I get the impression that they are grasping for a savior instead of focusing on the real problems the team has. Someone posted earlier that the Card's should get Culpepper and then just fix the line. Sure sounds simple doesn't it?

 

[john h]

While I make no judegments on the subject, you sure seem to give a lot of excuses for Culpepper. Most of which applies to the Cardinals equally well.

I guess it comes down to simple perceptions. You believe we suck and they don't just because we are the Cardinals.

Cullpepper has a long history of success. We know what he can do and he is only 29. Considered one of the best QB's in the NFL. Has had a bad start this year but like Arnold "I will be back"!

 

[john h]

Have you been in a cave every NFL season prior to this one...? He is still an 4 time Pro Bowl QB. No doubt losing Randy, Linehan, and even Matt Birk has hurt but Tice is an absolute idiot. Amazingly he is a worse coach than Martz. Who would have thunk it possible....?

Comparing Josh McCown to Daunte is the kind of things drunk Cards fans at Maloneys on University do after one to many pitchers.........

You got that 100% right brother about Cullpepper. I would trade my first round pick in an instant for him and give him a VW.

 

[john h]

It's funny because it has nothing to do with C-Pep, and just the over-active glands of a serious Josh fan.

Josh is NOT Brett Favre. He may be the best QB on this roster, but PLEASE people, let's not get carried away. C-Pep is a MONSTER improvement over Joshua Christ Superstar.

See, this is the kind of garbage that makes me seethe over Josh fans. Sure, he's had some good games and I've given him his props, but when people start downing JoshAid so heavily that they'd rather have him over a proven QB like Daunte and actually try to make arguments that back up their misguided point of view that I *almost* wish failure for the guy...not for him, nor the team, but for his fans. It's like if a Suns fan said that Casey Jacobsen is the next coming of Larry Bird...and as much as I hate LB and the Celtics, the blasphemy of that statement should speak for itself.

What amazes me is the fervor with which people defend Josh McCown. One would think he is the brother of many people. I do not dislike this guy. He may be a personable nice young man. I just look at his play and make my decision that he is good, bad, or has potential. It seems many people are emotionally tied to this guy for some strange reason. I could understand the Plummer affiliation because he was a local hero. Josh has a cool name but beyond that I have just not seen anything on the field to suggest he is our long term answer. I would really like to be wrong and eat crow as I am first and foremost a Cardinal fan. If McCown does some big turn around I will sing his praises. I am not emotionally tied to any player (at least on this team) and just call it like I see it. Josh is what he is. No more and no less.

 

[john h]

Culpepper signed a large contract extension in the off season. He is not going to be traded as I believe the Vikes would take a big time salary hit and the existing contract would also be much more than the Cards have ever paid.
Bottom line is I don't see this happening.

They are not idiots in MN and I do not see them even consider trading him unless they have some super secret QB we do not know about.

 

[joeshmo]

I realize they're not particularly good but there are very few, if any examples of o-line's that are playing worse than Arizona's right now. As bad as Minnesota's situation is, they are still able to rush the ball a little bit and have scored rushing td's (I think). Both units are poor but I think Minnesota has the edge.

Then you havent watched them play. They and Houston are the worst olines in the NFL. Yes worse then ours, easily. Especially in the pass blocking department. We have allowed 19 sacks Minny has allowed 29 sacks. They are also the most penalized, yes more so then our OL. Plus they have only allowed 1 rushing TD and 3.9 YPC, compared to us and knowing they have a much better stable of RB's then we do, they are about par with our OL in the run blocking department. So yes I can easily say that Minny and Houston have worse off OL then we do.

 

[john h]

Putting money into the equation, I'm with you. On pure talent I don't think there's a question. But dollar for dollar what you get I could be persuaded that Josh is a better option, but only New Josh, not Old Josh that was on display today.

We should get the best QB available and forget about the money. We will never be a winner with the QB's we have been trotting out there. Great and very good QB's all make big money or will very quick. There is no such thing a great bargain basement QB.

 

[joeshmo]

but has Dennis Green given you reason to expect the o-line and running game to miraculously improve next year?

Miraculously improve into a powerhouse, heck no, nice use of a complete extreme though. But with another year of drafting and FA, improvement without a doubt.

 

[john h]

I concur.

Why can't we get a young, super QB on this team? I am tired of all the has beens.

Personally I think it involves the money and the owners do not want to spend it. I do not remember the last 1st round QB we took?? I think we took Lomax in round 2. Where did we draft Plummer?

 

[john h]

I think you're off-base on what it would take to get Culpepper. One 2nd rounder and McCown should do it.

If they're looking to trade him, they're motivated.

I also think it would take two 1st rounders and a throw in.

 

[Russ Smith]

No, from year to year you never know which team will be the surprise parity team of the year but has Dennis Green given you reason to expect the o-line and running game to miraculously improve next year?

No but it is safe to say that Green has already purged the OL of every guy he has a personal dislike for with Kendall and LJ gone, and every inherited guy he recognized as sucking (AC and Spikes). so it's reasonable to assume OL moves next year will be UPGRADES, not cuts for the sake of cutting.

Green may even have to cut guys HE personally chose, like Oliver Ross, or move him to guard.

If this OL isn't markedly better next year Green shouldn't be allowed to coach year 3(barring massive injuries of course) because you can't keep saying it's your #1 priority and not making it better. But I do think Green will make it better, and hopefully Tice will get fired and Green will hire Tice to coach the OL. Like Martz is a good OC but a lousy coach, Tice is a good OL coach but a lousy head coach.

 

[Russ Smith]

Personally I think it involves the money and the owners do not want to spend it. I do not remember the last 1st round QB we took?? I think we took Lomax in round 2. Where did we draft Plummer?

Plummer was a 2nd rounder. The last first rounder technically was Stouffer, we took Rosenbach in supplemental so he cost us a first rounder too.

That said how did we save a dime by drafting Fitz over Ben? We could have got Ben cheaper by trading the pick, moving down, and taking Ben later.

That move had nothing to do with money it was all about Green and Fitz.

 

[john h]

Culpepper in cardinal red would be a dream come true! How can anyone pass that up??



If True

He is also probably a better runner than anyone on our team.

 

[CaptTurbo]

He is also probably a better runner than anyone on our team.

Also built like a LB. Dont have to worry about him getting broken on a blitz.

I was never a big Culpepper fan. But compared to what we have and the situation with the line and RB that we have he seems ideal.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

What amazes me is the fervor with which people defend Josh McCown. One would think he is the brother of many people. I do not dislike this guy. He may be a personable nice young man. I just look at his play and make my decision that he is good, bad, or has potential. It seems many people are emotionally tied to this guy for some strange reason. I could understand the Plummer affiliation because he was a local hero. Josh has a cool name but beyond that I have just not seen anything on the field to suggest he is our long term answer. I would really like to be wrong and eat crow as I am first and foremost a Cardinal fan. If McCown does some big turn around I will sing his praises. I am not emotionally tied to any player (at least on this team) and just call it like I see it. Josh is what he is. No more and no less.

Well said, i don't get it either.How can anyone compare Josh to Culpepper. Can you imagine if we called Minny and offered Josh straight up for Daunte? I think we would all be able to hear the phone slamming down.

Most of all, i would just like to see what the offense and WR's could be with a legitimate starting,stud-type QB,like Culpepper at the helm. Their true potential won't be realized until we get one and neither Josh or Warner is going to be that type of guy. That's why i was, and still am, so pissed we passed on Leftwich. You don't get a chance at top-tier QB very often and we passsed on one because of hope that Josh would develop.I hope we don't make the same mistake if Culpepper actually becomes available.

 

[john h]

I'm not arguing what might or might not happen, just what I might do. It's obvious Denny will go that extra mile to acquire "his" guys (Fitzgerald), so it's very possible that Arizona might get Culpepper if he's available. I just don't think it's going to solve anything in terms of wins or even necessarily longevity at the qb position for Arizona if they do.

Fitz and Boldin are really good but Moss is on a level all his own. All the jump balls that padded Culpepper's stat's in his time with Moss have instantly disappeared with Moss gone and McCown's jump balls to Fitz and Boldin haven't produced any real success to this point so substituting Culpepper for McCown doesn't seem like as much of a no-brainer to me as it does to others.

I am no big fan personally of Randy Moss but that sucker can sure catch the ball and run and is perhaps the best WR I have ever seen in 60 years. Our receivers are very good but Moss is in a league of his own.

 

[clif]

While I think the likelihood of this happening is pretty slim.. I think it would add instant credibility to the Cards going into next year. The first year in the new stadium with a pro bowl QB would sell alot of tickets IMO. You think the buzz was high this year.. imagine Culpepper throwing to Fitz and Boldin in the new stadium on a Monday night game!!!! :drool:

 

[blindseyed]

While I think the likelihood of this happening is pretty slim.. I think it would add instant credibility to the Cards going into next year. The first year in the new stadium with a pro bowl QB would sell alot of tickets IMO. You think the buzz was high this year.. imagine Culpepper throwing to Fitz and Boldin in the new stadium on a Monday night game!!!! :drool:

With even a slight improvement to the O-line along with Duante we'd be so much better. I think it's slim too but...it would be cool

 

[Russ Smith]

While I think the likelihood of this happening is pretty slim.. I think it would add instant credibility to the Cards going into next year. The first year in the new stadium with a pro bowl QB would sell alot of tickets IMO. You think the buzz was high this year.. imagine Culpepper throwing to Fitz and Boldin in the new stadium on a Monday night game!!!! :drool:

Yep, completely agree he'd give us instant credibility.

It's unlikely but with an ownership change, a coaching change, and all the off field problems, it's possible. Maybe Daunte should start acting like a jerk just to force the Vikings into trading him to us .

 

[blindseyed]

What amazes me is the fervor with which people defend Josh McCown. One would think he is the brother of many people. I do not dislike this guy. He may be a personable nice young man. I just look at his play and make my decision that he is good, bad, or has potential. It seems many people are emotionally tied to this guy for some strange reason. I could understand the Plummer affiliation because he was a local hero. Josh has a cool name but beyond that I have just not seen anything on the field to suggest he is our long term answer. I would really like to be wrong and eat crow as I am first and foremost a Cardinal fan. If McCown does some big turn around I will sing his praises. I am not emotionally tied to any player (at least on this team) and just call it like I see it. Josh is what he is. No more and no less.

It's a no brainer if a deal can be done (alhtough I wouldn't get my hopes up). To even think Josh can compare to Duante , one would have to bath in Koolaid. If ya step outside of the Card camp here and look at it from an unbiased fan view, there's not one person who wouldn't do it. Money aside that is, I'm just saying IF it could be worked.

 

[conraddobler]

What amazes me is the fervor with which people defend Josh McCown. One would think he is the brother of many people. I do not dislike this guy. He may be a personable nice young man. I just look at his play and make my decision that he is good, bad, or has potential. It seems many people are emotionally tied to this guy for some strange reason. I could understand the Plummer affiliation because he was a local hero. Josh has a cool name but beyond that I have just not seen anything on the field to suggest he is our long term answer. I would really like to be wrong and eat crow as I am first and foremost a Cardinal fan. If McCown does some big turn around I will sing his praises. I am not emotionally tied to any player (at least on this team) and just call it like I see it. Josh is what he is. No more and no less.

If people would pay attention then you'd notice most of us defend some of the critisim of him, not him personally.

I think a lot of people tend to write him off as sucky and that he's going to stay that way.

What a lot of us are saying is that there are reasons beyond just him why any QB would have problems in this offense.

I never have claimed he's great now, or even that I know he will be. However some posts go like this.

We threw for 100 yards so Josh sucks.

Well that day he did, we won the game but he still sucked, however saying he always will and the team has nothing to do with it just ticks me off at least.

He's made a bunch of mistakes and he's made some great plays. It's pretty standard for a guy with about a year of starts under his belt.

But if you want to belittle those of us saying that go ahead, I personally don't care but I'm going to mention what I think of your point of view every now and then just the same.

 

[moklerman]

A guy that size will likely have knee problems if his weight isn't held in check.

Sometimes irony can be scary.