- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 39,376
- Reaction score
- 27,340
The pitch was barely off the plate and was nothing more than a pitcher missing his target.
D-Backs and Pirates Series Thread
- Thread starter AZ Native
- Start date
The pitch was barely off the plate and was nothing more than a pitcher missing his target.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Of course. That's the point. If a pitcher decides to come inside, he knows full well the risk he is taking and that if he hits the batter, there is a good possibility for retribution. Not always of course, as context and circumstances come into play.
In this case, the pitcher decided to come inside to the sole star player (Goldy) on the team, at a point in the game when the outcome was already decided. The pitcher also happens to pitch for the team that, not only leads the majors in hitting batters this year, but the team that took out another leading player of our team (Aaron Hill) last season.
Bottom line = this is baseball... the players and coaches know it and abide by it. So should you...
"So should you".
Oh geez zzz.
Oh geez zzz.
Last edited:
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Not to extend this debate, but... These two articles should slam the door:
1.) http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ball-star/article780077.html
CHICAGO Jeremy Guthrie apologized to Danny Valencia out on the diamond on Monday night. He apologized to him again inside the Royals dugout. After a 3-1 loss to the White Sox, Valencia sported a reddish bruise on his left hand, and Guthrie continued to lament his role in Valencia’s discomfort.
The situation unfolded in the first two innings. Guthrie opened the door for retaliation when he hit a pair of batters in the bottom of the first. The first collision occurred when Alexei Ramirez lunged over the plate. The second was a fastball Guthrie lost control of, which veered into Conor Gillaspie.
With two outs in the second, Chicago ace Chris Sale exacted revenge. He popped Valencia with a pitch upstairs. From his spot in the dugout, Guthrie understood the retaliation.
“It’s my fault that Danny got hit like that,” Guthrie said. “Their guy went out and did the right thing, in terms of the way you play the game. I wish he would have hit him lower in the body, and not put his hand and face at risk. But at the end of the day, their pitcher did the right thing.”
2.) http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-point-in-defense-of-tony-la-russa/
Let’s try a little thing. Let’s identify both inside fastballs and really inside fastballs. We’ll never be able to look at the data and figure out pitch intent, but we can at least look for clues, and if a team has a particularly high rate of really inside fastballs, we might conclude those weren’t accidents. This is all going to be somewhat arbitrary, but I’m going to classify inside fastballs as being fastballs at least half a foot from the center of the plate. I’m going to classify really inside fastballs as being fastballs at least a foot and a half from the center of the plate. That’s hit-by-pitch territory, of the intentional variety. Sometimes Chase Utley gets hit by borderline strikes but that’s just part of his skillset.
This year, the Diamondbacks rank in the middle of the pack in inside fastballs thrown. On average, by my specifications, 13% of inside fastballs are really inside fastballs. So, somewhat dangerous fastballs. The team with the highest rate of really inside fastballs / overall inside fastballs: the New York Yankees. The team with the lowest rate of really inside fastballs / overall inside fastballs, by a full percentage point: the Arizona Diamondbacks.
By that one measure, the Diamondbacks aren’t disproportionately putting hitters in danger. Hitters, of course, get hit by non-fastballs too, but people tend not to fret about those. This season Diamondbacks fastballs have hit 18 batters, fifth-fewest in the majors. There’s absolutely no question that Arizona has hit a few hitters intentionally. But there’s also absolutely no question that other teams have hit a few hitters intentionally, and the D-Backs don’t seem to be making a habit of this. They’re being closely monitored on account of the things they’ve said to the press, so every incident blows up, but then it’s not that their incidents are disproportionate in volume — it’s that the coverage is.
About the Pirates, specifically. La Russa talked about how their style lends itself to more hit-by-pitches, and it’s absolutely true. This year, the Pirates have thrown about 3,300 inside fastballs. That doesn’t just lead baseball — that leads baseball by just about 600. Unsurprisingly, the Pirates also lead baseball in hit-by-pitches by a wide margin, and while most of those hit-by-pitches are very much unintentional, the Pirates know that their style will cause batters to get hit more often than they would against another opponent. The Pirates are accepting, as a consequence, that they’re endangering opponents, and some players might get hurt. Paul Goldschmidt isn’t out for the year because the Pirates hit him on purpose, but Goldschmidt was at greater risk facing the Pirates than he would’ve been facing anybody else, and this kind of muddies the seemingly simple divide between intentional and accidental. Goldschmidt was hit by accident. McCutchen was hit on purpose. But overall, the Pirates hit players a lot more often than the Diamondbacks hit players, so while an intentional pitch from Arizona carries the greatest risk, the remaining pitches for Pittsburgh carry a greater risk.
1.) http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ball-star/article780077.html
CHICAGO Jeremy Guthrie apologized to Danny Valencia out on the diamond on Monday night. He apologized to him again inside the Royals dugout. After a 3-1 loss to the White Sox, Valencia sported a reddish bruise on his left hand, and Guthrie continued to lament his role in Valencia’s discomfort.
The situation unfolded in the first two innings. Guthrie opened the door for retaliation when he hit a pair of batters in the bottom of the first. The first collision occurred when Alexei Ramirez lunged over the plate. The second was a fastball Guthrie lost control of, which veered into Conor Gillaspie.
With two outs in the second, Chicago ace Chris Sale exacted revenge. He popped Valencia with a pitch upstairs. From his spot in the dugout, Guthrie understood the retaliation.
“It’s my fault that Danny got hit like that,” Guthrie said. “Their guy went out and did the right thing, in terms of the way you play the game. I wish he would have hit him lower in the body, and not put his hand and face at risk. But at the end of the day, their pitcher did the right thing.”
2.) http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-point-in-defense-of-tony-la-russa/
Let’s try a little thing. Let’s identify both inside fastballs and really inside fastballs. We’ll never be able to look at the data and figure out pitch intent, but we can at least look for clues, and if a team has a particularly high rate of really inside fastballs, we might conclude those weren’t accidents. This is all going to be somewhat arbitrary, but I’m going to classify inside fastballs as being fastballs at least half a foot from the center of the plate. I’m going to classify really inside fastballs as being fastballs at least a foot and a half from the center of the plate. That’s hit-by-pitch territory, of the intentional variety. Sometimes Chase Utley gets hit by borderline strikes but that’s just part of his skillset.
This year, the Diamondbacks rank in the middle of the pack in inside fastballs thrown. On average, by my specifications, 13% of inside fastballs are really inside fastballs. So, somewhat dangerous fastballs. The team with the highest rate of really inside fastballs / overall inside fastballs: the New York Yankees. The team with the lowest rate of really inside fastballs / overall inside fastballs, by a full percentage point: the Arizona Diamondbacks.
By that one measure, the Diamondbacks aren’t disproportionately putting hitters in danger. Hitters, of course, get hit by non-fastballs too, but people tend not to fret about those. This season Diamondbacks fastballs have hit 18 batters, fifth-fewest in the majors. There’s absolutely no question that Arizona has hit a few hitters intentionally. But there’s also absolutely no question that other teams have hit a few hitters intentionally, and the D-Backs don’t seem to be making a habit of this. They’re being closely monitored on account of the things they’ve said to the press, so every incident blows up, but then it’s not that their incidents are disproportionate in volume — it’s that the coverage is.
About the Pirates, specifically. La Russa talked about how their style lends itself to more hit-by-pitches, and it’s absolutely true. This year, the Pirates have thrown about 3,300 inside fastballs. That doesn’t just lead baseball — that leads baseball by just about 600. Unsurprisingly, the Pirates also lead baseball in hit-by-pitches by a wide margin, and while most of those hit-by-pitches are very much unintentional, the Pirates know that their style will cause batters to get hit more often than they would against another opponent. The Pirates are accepting, as a consequence, that they’re endangering opponents, and some players might get hurt. Paul Goldschmidt isn’t out for the year because the Pirates hit him on purpose, but Goldschmidt was at greater risk facing the Pirates than he would’ve been facing anybody else, and this kind of muddies the seemingly simple divide between intentional and accidental. Goldschmidt was hit by accident. McCutchen was hit on purpose. But overall, the Pirates hit players a lot more often than the Diamondbacks hit players, so while an intentional pitch from Arizona carries the greatest risk, the remaining pitches for Pittsburgh carry a greater risk.
I sense the D-Backs' current retaliation mode was set when Upton was leading the universe at getting intentionally hit. Neither Upton nor his teammates did anything about it then, but there was all kinds of talk about doing something about it. Now that he's gone, they finally have the cajones to retaliate.
In baseball, it's not dirty if you win. It's downright admirable. If you lose, it's pathetic and reckless.
In baseball, it's not dirty if you win. It's downright admirable. If you lose, it's pathetic and reckless.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
crisper57
Open the Roof!
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 20,683
- Reaction score
- 11,985
I agree that its the talking about it openly thats causing the bigger problems for the team. Very little is kept in house in this organization. When they publicly whine about bean balls, then bean people in retribution, it uses up a lot of goodwill. Rather than a team just taking care of business it looks like hypocrisy.
Is Aaron Hill still a star or just a bad at baseball star?
Never fully recovered from his broken hand
All the more reason to take out as many Pirates as possible next time we play them
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
I hope that is not going to be the case with Goldy.
Hopefully since he is younger he can
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 20,683
- Reaction score
- 11,985
Umm, not sure how Hill's hand can be blamed for his suck this season. He broke his hand in April of 2013, he returned and hit .295 in the 2nd half last year, its safe to say he fully recovered. Hill has had seasons this crappy before, he might bounce back next year, he might not, but I dont think it will have anything to do with a long healed hand injury.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
I posted this thought previously. I don't know if the figures back it up.
But it seems that Hill will have a game with 2 or 3 hits and be a factor.
Then he'll go 3 or 4 games without a hit and tie up a key spot in the batting order. Of course, we have no one to move into the 2-5 spots to replace him there anyway.
This seems to have been repeating this season.
But it seems that Hill will have a game with 2 or 3 hits and be a factor.
Then he'll go 3 or 4 games without a hit and tie up a key spot in the batting order. Of course, we have no one to move into the 2-5 spots to replace him there anyway.
This seems to have been repeating this season.
Similar threads
