Darnell out for 2014 with ACL injury

[SoCal Cardfan]

Oh whatever will we do?

Who can step up and get those 3-4 sacks a year that Dockett accounts for?
There has been tons of men play this game with numbers far better than Docketts, they just didn't have his knack for self promotion like twitter-man does, so we don't remember their names.

As far as the emotional team leader? pffft, He takes off so many plays, and gets banged around in the run game more often than not. Way to be a leader.
I know the "Dockett takes on soooo many double teams" argument will come into play.. so fair enough I guess, I just really don't think this team will live or die because of #90.

The guy isn't even a top 50 DT, but if your a Cards fan, and you follow twitter you would probably think he's top 10.
I'll put on my flame suit and revisit this thread at the end of the year.. but honestly, I think he won't be missed as much as many think.

That being said, I hate that he is hurt and wish him well.. I also love the fact that in addition to being a shameless self-promoter, he is the first player I can remember who was proud to a red bird, and let everyone know it.

 

[Tyler3450]

Did Rucker do well last year?

yes he was pretty good in fact.

 

[187]

Oh whatever will we do?

Who can step up and get those 3-4 sacks a year that Dockett accounts for?
There has been tons of men play this game with numbers far better than Docketts, they just didn't have his knack for self promotion like twitter-man does, so we don't remember their names.

As far as the emotional team leader? pffft, He takes off so many plays, and gets banged around in the run game more often than not. Way to be a leader.
I know the "Dockett takes on soooo many double teams" argument will come into play.. so fair enough I guess, I just really don't think this team will live or die because of #90.

The guy isn't even a top 50 DT, but if your a Cards fan, and you follow twitter you would probably think he's top 10.
I'll put on my flame suit and revisit this thread at the end of the year.. but honestly, I think he won't be missed as much as many think.

That being said, I hate that he is hurt and wish him well.. I also love the fact that in addition to being a shameless self-promoter, he is the first player I can remember who was proud to a red bird, and let everyone know it.

Love me some Dockett as well, but I agree that it's not AS HUGE of a loss as some are making it out to be. Rucker should fill and be fine, he is pretty damn good against the run. Only thing that sucks is our DL rotation isn't as good.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh whatever will we do?

Who can step up and get those 3-4 sacks a year that Dockett accounts for?
There has been tons of men play this game with numbers far better than Docketts, they just didn't have his knack for self promotion like twitter-man does, so we don't remember their names.

As far as the emotional team leader? pffft, He takes off so many plays, and gets banged around in the run game more often than not. Way to be a leader.
I know the "Dockett takes on soooo many double teams" argument will come into play.. so fair enough I guess, I just really don't think this team will live or die because of #90.

The guy isn't even a top 50 DT, but if your a Cards fan, and you follow twitter you would probably think he's top 10.
I'll put on my flame suit and revisit this thread at the end of the year.. but honestly, I think he won't be missed as much as many think.

That being said, I hate that he is hurt and wish him well.. I also love the fact that in addition to being a shameless self-promoter, he is the first player I can remember who was proud to a red bird, and let everyone know it.

I think Dockett has slipped some but it's not his sacks that we'll have trouble replacing. It's mostly a matter of quality depth. If we had lost him from last season's defense, I wouldn't be as concerned. Rucker isn't much of a drop off but we're thin beyond that.

Steve

 

[juza76]

I think Dockett has slipped some but it's not his sacks that we'll have trouble replacing. It's mostly a matter of quality depth. If we had lost him from last season's defense, I wouldn't be as concerned. Rucker isn't much of a drop off but we're thin beyond that.

Steve

yes but a player will be taken..last year we could add a dt from steelers so probably a player who doesnt fit in 4-3 defense can be traded or released

 

[RugbyMuffin]

And this grinding offseason continues.

Not been a good offseason for the Cardinals. Yes, there has been a good story here and there, but a lot of injuries, and a lot of players whom have not answered the bell.

I think this will be the straw that breaks the back of this defense. If people are just looking at the numbers concerning Dockett's play, then that is fine, but the guy is a 10 year vet with a lot of experience and a guy that knows what his job is and does it well. If he is not so good then why does he start, and why has the defense that he has been a part of so good ?

Not to mention football is an emotional game, and Dockett is a leader, and a spokesman for the defense of the team. All things lost.

Not to mention we may have seen the last of Dockett as a Cardinal, even with a pay cut.

No to mention we are now relying for someone to come in, and step up there game in an offseason where every time the Cardinals have looked for the next man up, that man has not answered the call.

Bad situation for a team that seems to be snake bitten.

As for Dockett I wish him a quick recovery, and a warm welcome the next time he is at UoP.

 

[TRW]

Woke up this morning and see this! I really hate to hear this news.

When the black jerseys came out I got a 9-0 jersey. He maybe isn't a great (HOF) player but he has been a consistently tough, tough player for the Cards. I just love the "lunch pail" kind of guys who do the dirty, grunt work. DD does that in spades IMO.

His loss doesn't kill the defense but it certainly wounds it critically IMO. Frostee may step in and hold the fort but I fear that some of the effectiveness of the blitzes may suffer. Of course, it already was with the loss of Washington and Dansby so it's kind of "Who knows?" on that.

Anyway, sorry for DD and hope he comes back next year if that's what he wants to do. If his career is over, thanks for the memories.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Does anyone think Frostee can play all the downs and hold up for an entire game or will he be a situational player?

 

[cardpa]

The loss of DD hurts simply due to getting thinner in the rotation. Rucker will be at the very least 85-90% of what DD gave to this defense from a playing standpoint. The real next man up is who will fill the shoes that Rucker normally filled in the rotation? Will it be Martin? Will it be a acquisition from either the waiver wire or will it come via trade?

As far as the leadership aspect goes, I hope coaches are talking to players whom they believe can fill that role and grooming them to assume it. I have found that if you get a player to believe they can lead and they have that ability inside it will usually come out if you groom it.

As far as DD coming back, with his age and the type of injury I don't give much hope he will ever play another down in the NFL. Even if he does he will not be anything close to what he was before the injury.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Damn it! Terrible news.

I really feel for Dockett. Dude worked his ass off this off season. Major blow to the defense.

 

[az jam]

And this grinding offseason continues.

Not been a good offseason for the Cardinals. Yes, there has been a good story here and there, but a lot of injuries, and a lot of players whom have not answered the bell.

I think this will be the straw that breaks the back of this defense. If people are just looking at the numbers concerning Dockett's play, then that is fine, but the guy is a 10 year vet with a lot of experience and a guy that knows what his job is and does it well. If he is not so good then why does he start, and why has the defense that he has been a part of so good ?

Not to mention football is an emotional game, and Dockett is a leader, and a spokesman for the defense of the team. All things lost.

Not to mention we may have seen the last of Dockett as a Cardinal, even with a pay cut.

No to mention we are now relying for someone to come in, and step up there game in an offseason where every time the Cardinals have looked for the next man up, that man has not answered the call.

Bad situation for a team that seems to be snake bitten.

As for Dockett I wish him a quick recovery, and a warm welcome the next time he is at UoP.

Good points here, I think its a huge loss.

 

[Chopper0080]

Does anyone think Frostee can play all the downs and hold up for an entire game or will he be a situational player?

If Rucker could play all the down and hold up for an entire season, he wouldn't be a vet min guy. Rucker is a rotational player near the end of his career.

If you are looking at filling the production void of Dockett, it isn't a huge void to fill in terms of his numbers. However, with Dockett out, Campbell will be without another player to keep teams from constantly doubling him. He is going to get worn down this season, and have veen less one on one chances.

Your best bet on the roster to step up and fill the pass rushing void Dockett left is Kareem Martin. He is the only other defensive lineman on the roster with the physical ability to win one on one matchups consistently. Past that, you've got Dan Williams, Frostee Rucker, and Ed Stinson, none of which are beating a guy and running down the QB.

 

[GuernseyCard]

If Rucker could play all the down and hold up for an entire season, he wouldn't be a vet min guy. Rucker is a rotational player near the end of his career.

If you are looking at filling the production void of Dockett, it isn't a huge void to fill in terms of his numbers. However, with Dockett out, Campbell will be without another player to keep teams from constantly doubling him. He is going to get worn down this season, and have veen less one on one chances.

Your best bet on the roster to step up and fill the pass rushing void Dockett left is Kareem Martin. He is the only other defensive lineman on the roster with the physical ability to win one on one matchups consistently. Past that, you've got Dan Williams, Frostee Rucker, and Ed Stinson, none of which are beating a guy and running down the QB.

The DD of 2013 was PFF's 30th ranked 3-4 DE. Calais was number #2.

I failed in my review of tape to see DD relieve CC of fairly constant double teams. Saw, in fact, more double teams on the NT than on DD.

What was particularly disappointing was DD's inability to take advantage of one-on-one match ups.

I wonder if there will be some consideration of creating a tandem of Rucker and Shaughnessy to fill the void and have Okafor or Acho fill in at OLB for Shaughnessy?

 

[Chopper0080]

The DD of 2013 was PFF's 30th ranked 3-4 DE. Calais was number #2.

I failed in my review of tape to see DD relieve CC of fairly constant double teams. Saw, in fact, more double teams on the NT than on DD.

What was particularly disappointing was DD's inability to take advantage of one-on-one match ups.

What review? You have all the 2013 games on your DVR? You scanning YouTube clips? I'm curious.

Also, we can debate PFF's DLine metrics. Again, his measurable numbers are replaceable. The number of times he is blocked by multiple players, and time he disrupts the play in the backfield despite not making it isn't.

Once again, if you haven't figured out Dockett's value to this defense by now, I can't really explain it to you.

 

[GuernseyCard]

What review? You have all the 2013 games on your DVR? You scanning YouTube clips? I'm curious.

All the games on what you call DVR.

 

[Chopper0080]

All the games on what you call DVR.

All lot of tape to review in less than 18 hours. Just saying.

 

[juza76]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...rdinals-desmond-bishop-bruce-arians/14266327/

in this video u can see the play where dockett injured his knee

 

[GuernseyCard]

All lot of tape to review in less than 18 hours. Just saying.

Oh... not saying, I reviewed it all in the last day or so.

Scanned 2 tapes, but, it supported an earlier personal review of of our D-line play. I enjoy going through the season in detail during the offseason.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

All lot of tape to review in less than 18 hours. Just saying.

You do know that football games have roughly 11 minutes of actual game play right?

I've spent 10 years or so mastering the DTV FF x4 button, and can damn near stop it on a dime.

You could watch an entire 16 game season (from snap to whistle) in about 4 hours lol

 

[Russ Smith]

the interesting thing with Dockett is as his stats went "down" his value to the team went up. Dockett used to be one of those guys who'd make 1-2 great plays a game coupled with 1-2 dumb plays or penalties, and several plays where he was out of position because he tried to be a hero.

A few years back he seemed to finally buy in and stopped trying to be a hero and just did his job. He made less eye popping plays, but he was in position and made far fewer mistakes. you'd still get the occasional personal foul, he's never been able to control his temper, but he became a far better player.

It's going to be very hard to fill that, it's not that easy to find a guy talented enough to make big plays yet willing to buy in and sacrifice himself to free up other guys.

I think people downplaying the loss have to remember it's cumulative, we didn't just lose Dockett, we'd already lost Washington and Dansby.

IMO last year our top 5 defenders were Campbell, Dansby, Peterson, Washington and Dockett, we've lost 3 of them in one offseason.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the interesting thing with Dockett is as his stats went "down" his value to the team went up. Dockett used to be one of those guys who'd make 1-2 great plays a game coupled with 1-2 dumb plays or penalties, and several plays where he was out of position because he tried to be a hero.

A few years back he seemed to finally buy in and stopped trying to be a hero and just did his job. He made less eye popping plays, but he was in position and made far fewer mistakes. you'd still get the occasional personal foul, he's never been able to control his temper, but he became a far better player.

It's going to be very hard to fill that, it's not that easy to find a guy talented enough to make big plays yet willing to buy in and sacrifice himself to free up other guys.

I think people downplaying the loss have to remember it's cumulative, we didn't just lose Dockett, we'd already lost Washington and Dansby.

IMO last year our top 5 defenders were Campbell, Dansby, Peterson, Washington and Dockett, we've lost 3 of them in one offseason.

Not only that, but our 6th best defender (and one I'd argue belongs up there ahead of Dockett) is coming off a gruesome injury. And our 7th best player is just out of rehab.

Man...when you think about the fact that Mathieu and Abraham were arguably our 6th and 7th best defenders last year it really makes you realize how awesome that D was.

 

[kerouac9]

With what this group dealt with last year at OLB, I'm confident they can adjust for the loss of Dock this season. He is a great motivator and captain, but his production can be matched or surpassed. Rucker has been playing better than Dock lately.. I was recently wondering how many snaps Dock would lose because Rucker looked so much better. Get some depth behind Rucker and the team will be OK.

Oh whatever will we do?

Who can step up and get those 3-4 sacks a year that Dockett accounts for?
There has been tons of men play this game with numbers far better than Docketts, they just didn't have his knack for self promotion like twitter-man does, so we don't remember their names.

As far as the emotional team leader? pffft, He takes off so many plays, and gets banged around in the run game more often than not. Way to be a leader.
I know the "Dockett takes on soooo many double teams" argument will come into play.. so fair enough I guess, I just really don't think this team will live or die because of #90.

The guy isn't even a top 50 DT, but if your a Cards fan, and you follow twitter you would probably think he's top 10.
I'll put on my flame suit and revisit this thread at the end of the year.. but honestly, I think he won't be missed as much as many think.

That being said, I hate that he is hurt and wish him well.. I also love the fact that in addition to being a shameless self-promoter, he is the first player I can remember who was proud to a red bird, and let everyone know it.

Love me some Dockett as well, but I agree that it's not AS HUGE of a loss as some are making it out to be. Rucker should fill and be fine, he is pretty damn good against the run. Only thing that sucks is our DL rotation isn't as good.

Well, isn't this exactly the kind of horseflop we heard when Karlos Dansby was allowed to lead the first time? How'd that work out for the Cards defense?

Every top defense has a galvanizing leader who can back up their words with their play on the field. We've lost two (essentially) team captains to free agency and now injury. We've replaced them with a 2nd round pick with (almost) no NFL experience playing defense, and a guy who was available in free agency deep into April and June a year ago.

I don't think these guys will go into the tank, but the most dependable veteran leaders are gentle giant Calais Campbell (who's been focusing on his own game in closing the deal in the pass rush), Rashad Johnson (an average at best player and draft disappointment), and John Abraham (who's missed all of training camp dealing with his own personal demons).

You'd like to be able to turn to Tyrann Mathieu at a time like this, but he needs to be worried about his own performance and getting and staying healthy before turning back to break down the defense.

It's possible that the Cards may have to overdraft another interior defensive player (safety is unlikely, but maybe another ILB) next season who can provide plus-plus leadership walking in the door, like Patrick Willis did to a San Francisco defense who lacked an identity.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don't think these guys will go into the tank, but the most dependable veteran leaders are gentle giant Calais Campbell (who's been focusing on his own game in closing the deal in the pass rush), Rashad Johnson (an average at best player and draft disappointment), and John Abraham (who's missed all of training camp dealing with his own personal demons).

IMO the Defense Line was the strength of the defense last year. They were the ones who made this team a run stopping machine. They also were responsible for occupying blockers and giving lanes for our LBs to make plays.

Losing Dockett is a major blow to this team. I don't think people realize how much of a leader he was on that defense and the team as a whole. I also beleive that many underestimate how important Dockett was to the sucess of this defense.

As for the leadership and who will step up I think you left one name off your list that many forget about. When I was at practice there was one player who stood out to me as a leader of the defense and that was Larry Foote. Watching practice he was out there vocally leading the team. It's a different kind of leadership from the kind that Dockett provided. However I think his veteran leadership in the middle will be much more important now.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

If Rucker could play all the down and hold up for an entire season, he wouldn't be a vet min guy. Rucker is a rotational player near the end of his career.

That's what I thought. So the young guys will have to step up or we will have to go shopping in the next couple of weeks.

 

[kerouac9]

As for the leadership and who will step up I think you left one name off your list that many forget about. When I was at practice there was one player who stood out to me as a leader of the defense and that was Larry Foote. Watching practice he was out there vocally leading the team. It's a different kind of leadership from the kind that Dockett provided. However I think his veteran leadership in the middle will be much more important now.

Maybe. I hope you're right. But Foote is a mercenary on a one-year deal who was signed late in the process and won't be here next year. He has no relationships to anyone on the roster, he's not a playmaker, and he's at the end of his career.

I think that Foote can be a valuable addition as a teacher and mentor (maybe), but he's not part of the #birdgang in the way that Dockett and Dansby were.