Darrell Bevell to interview for Cards OC position

[Solar7]

The problem with your perception is you really are not considering the draft to rectify our QB of the future dilemma. You like to win now, but then must understand how winning affects the use of the draft. Somehow with our talent and guts finished well enough to be at 15, and that is exactly how I wish a sucky year for the Cardinals to be now and not a top pick in the draft. There are reasons why teams let guys go at the most important position. We have been spoiled with Warner and Palmer making us think this is the solution because in doing so we admit we suck at the draft. Well, good teams which seldom lose faced with this position at QB will move up, because they are great at scouting and know their winning ways make them required to deal and move up. They will move up because they know being the Cardinals and waiting for other's misfits usually is not the solution.

You have to have faith in the scouts and front office, and if so understand they are dealing with teams who are perpetually upfront in the draft because their front offices are not good which is reflected in their records. Keim has a job, to be a bad ass and screw with these 'lesser' teams with a lesser front office and get our young QB in trade talks. If Keim cannot do this, then he should not be our GM right now but I do not think he really tried to a QB in the draft yet, and probably because Arians did not give his full support and was comfortable with what he had in my opinion. Absolutely, we need a vet to prepare for the draft not going our way but Cousins to me is an expensive bridge for a destination which he is not

But this isn't happening! Not at all! You're making it up besides what happened with Wentz and Goff two years ago, and there's not enough evidence to call that a success yet!

Sorry, this is driving me crazy, because no one has an example of it working at all in 20 years. You can't point to a successful team that has traded up in the modern NFL era without using those two examples, and neither has played two full seasons yet.

 

[Jetstream Green]

But this isn't happening! Not at all! You're making it up besides what happened with Wentz and Goff two years ago, and there's not enough evidence to call that a success yet!

Sorry, this is driving me crazy, because no one has an example of it working at all in 20 years. You can't point to a successful team that has traded up in the modern NFL era without using those two examples, and neither has played two full seasons yet.

We are at fifteen. I'm not about to trade up to the top five because I feel there is a wealth of QB talent this draft. I'm saying if Mayfield gets close to our pick and he is one of your guys, you try to get there. Actually, I'm one of the few who also digs Lamar Jackson and think he falls to us at fifteen and I would draft him

 

[Solar7]

We are at fifteen. I'm not about to trade up to the top five because I feel there is a wealth of QB talent this draft. I'm saying if Mayfield gets close to our pick and he is one of your guys, you try to get there. Actually, I'm one of the few who also digs Lamar Jackson and think he falls to us at fifteen and I would draft him

I'm fine with that, but it's a much different argument than "identifying your guy and paying whatever it takes to get him."

I think Baker Mayfield will be pretty good. Sure, let's burn a second rounder, but only if the team loves him. I don't want to sit on our hands in free agency though and settle for Josh Allen as the anointed starter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But this isn't happening! Not at all! You're making it up besides what happened with Wentz and Goff two years ago, and there's not enough evidence to call that a success yet!

Sorry, this is driving me crazy, because no one has an example of it working at all in 20 years. You can't point to a successful team that has traded up in the modern NFL era without using those two examples, and neither has played two full seasons yet.

Falcons, who were mostly a pathetic Cardinals like organization with a random good year every decade traded up to the 1st puck and took Vick, who made them a perennial playoff team or contender and even took them to an NFC Championship game before he ruined his life and got busted for dog fighting.

And to say Wentz... an MVP candidate who was solid as a rook and out of this world in his second year isn’t proof because he “hasn’t played two full seasons” is an incredibly specious argument. Kid’s a stud. Plain and simple. He got better AFTER the league had a full year of tape on him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, I'm more an advocate of Cousins than I am of Smith, and Smith's compensation is up in the air. My entire openness to Smith is predicated on us not giving up anything more than a 4th or 5th, if that.

Anyways, you don't panic yourself into taking a shot just because you haven't before. If it's a bad shot, it's a bad shot. By the time the Cardinals need to make moves at QB, the prospects won't have even completed their Pro Days. Remember, plenty of teams were debating whether or not Peyton or Leaf should be the first pick. Regardless, if there is a QB that good, the Browns and Giants sure aren't going to pass on him and trade back to #15. You're trying to "trust" the GM and owner to put their backs to the wall and hope a miracle happens. If the top two teams in this draft weren't QB needy, maybe your argument makes sense.

I agree that Keim should have moved up last year. I agree that he should have taken some fliers on quarterbacks.

The Patriots have success because they don't take unnecessary risk. They use their assets pragmatically. They got enormously lucky in picking the right 5th round QB. They continuously trade back to build future assets, instead of burning them to get shiny new toys.

Trading a 4th for Alex Smith for a 2-3 year rental doesn't prevent us from selecting a young QB, and grooming him. Trading two first rounders and two second rounders to move up for a QB ensures that not only do we have to commit to whoever we picked for 3 years or so, but that if we swing and miss - like most teams have - we have no way to build up the belly of this roster. I'd rather watch us make it to the playoffs and have a puncher's chance with our run game and defense than watch 4 years of the team be completely hopeless and 4-12 with Jake Locker 2.0 starting, and someone else using our top 5 picks.

You lost me at “The Patriots are successful because they don’t take unnecessary risks.”

Wrong. The Patriots are successful because they have the best player EVER in the NFL and best Coach ever.

And The Patriots trade to get players like Corey Dillon (2nd round picks), Brandon Cooks (2nd round pick).

The reality is the Patriots dont have a set way of doing anything. They will splurge big in FA when they want (Stephen Gilmore last year, Amendola, Revis... hell, go back to Roosevelt Colvin during first part of Dynasty). They’ll trade away high assets for guys like Cooks. They’ll bring in good guys (Walker) they’ll sign cancers (Moss/Harrison), they’ll trade guys no one else would.

They take risks all the time and they are afforded to do so because of Brady and Bellicheck.

We are not in that position. And this team has NEVER taken a freaking risk and in a draft with A LOT of talent at QB, this is the time to do it.

You can keep kicking the can down the road, but that has gotten us 5 playoff appearances IN 30 YEARS.

That has to end. Period. This is the draft to do it.

 

[oaken1]

But this isn't happening! Not at all! You're making it up besides what happened with Wentz and Goff two years ago, and there's not enough evidence to call that a success yet!

Sorry, this is driving me crazy, because no one has an example of it working at all in 20 years. You can't point to a successful team that has traded up in the modern NFL era without using those two examples, and neither has played two full seasons yet.

generally speaking teams in desperate need of a QB are,..well,..pretty friggin bad. One has to assume the failure rate in QB's they traded up for correlates to the overall failure rate of the franchise itself as a whole... generally speaking.

as a fan, and one who advocates trading up when the opportunity presents itself.... I have to think THIS organization does not suck as bad as san diego or cleveland..and will make the right decision and choose a QB who will be successful.

what can I POSSIBLY base that on?? Two words... FAITH.

Steve Keim has to know not only his job but likely his career as a GM in the NFL rides on that single decision. with that as the measuring stick I trust him to make a good decision.

and we dont suck like san diego and cleveland...or even the deadskins

 

[Buckybird]

We are at fifteen. I'm not about to trade up to the top five because I feel there is a wealth of QB talent this draft. I'm saying if Mayfield gets close to our pick and he is one of your guys, you try to get there. Actually, I'm one of the few who also digs Lamar Jackson and think he falls to us at fifteen and I would draft him

I think we are going to have to trade into the top 7 (Bucs) to guarantee Mayfield & I would pull that trigger if I’m Keim.

Getting in front of Denver is imperative!

I’m not sure Lamar is going to fit into what Wilks’ offense based off his comments he’s looking for today Jet. Run the ball & playaction seems to be his preference. But then again he saw first hand Scams running & throwing in Carolina. He’s regressed for 2 years now & can LJ take the beating on his thin frame running in the nfl? I don’t think so.

 

[oaken1]

I think we are going to have to trade into the top 7 (Bucs) to guarantee Mayfield & I would pull that trigger if I’m Keim.

Getting in front of Denver is imperative!

I’m not sure Lamar is going to fit into what Wilks’ offense based off his comments he’s looking for today Jet. Run the ball & playaction seems to be his preference. But then again he saw first hand Scams running & throwing in Carolina. He’s regressed for 2 years now & can LJ take the beating on his thin frame running in the nfl? I don’t think so.

the trick on trading in front of denver is to have the deal in place but dont let it get out until its time. Because if they think we are trying to leap frog them and get their guy they will sell the farm to Indy...
Both Denver and DC were fawning over Mayfield today... but denver did actually take Rudolph and his "sore ankle" into a private room for an interview. There were some rumors floating that Rudolph and Allen were the two guys denver likes best. But it is smoke screen season.

 

[Largent80]

Hey guys. Seahawk fan here weighing in on Bevell. I dont think you guys are going to be happy with that signing if it indeed does happen. A few issues I have with Bevell are the following - He is an absolute horrible player personnel manager. He just cannot or does not see or call plays regarding a players strengths. Its maddening. Bubble screens. Get ready to be familiar with this play as you will see it all to often. Say goodbye to traditional screen passes as he just does not run them. WR route trees. Bevell draws up the longest, most time consuming WR routes in the game. We have one of the worst Olines in the league and Bevell still had the receivers running routes that took an hour to develop. No short or mid range stuff to speak of. Its no wonder Wilson was always running around like a chicken with his head cut off. NFL announcers have mentioned this numerous times.

There's more, but i'll stop there. Again, as a Seahawk fan I feel we won despite Darrell Bevell and not because of him. His firing was way overdue and a blessing for the organization. There's a reason he was never in consideration for a head coaching position even with our success and its because the rest of the NFL knows better. Anyways, good luck if you do sign him, but I dint think you'll be happy. Peace to you all.

 

[Veer]

Hey guys. Seahawk fan here weighing in on Bevell. I dont think you guys are going to be happy with that signing if it indeed does happen. A few issues I have with Bevell are the following - He is an absolute horrible player personnel manager. He just cannot or does not see or call plays regarding a players strengths. Its maddening. Bubble screens. Get ready to be familiar with this play as you will see it all to often. Say goodbye to traditional screen passes as he just does not run them. WR route trees. Bevell draws up the longest, most time consuming WR routes in the game. We have one of the worst Olines in the league and Bevell still had the receivers running routes that took an hour to develop. No short or mid range stuff to speak of. Its no wonder Wilson was always running around like a chicken with his head cut off. NFL announcers have mentioned this numerous times.

There's more, but i'll stop there. Again, as a Seahawk fan I feel we won despite Darrell Bevell and not because of him. His firing was way overdue and a blessing for the organization. There's a reason he was never in consideration for a head coaching position even with our success and its because the rest of the NFL knows better. Anyways, good luck if you do sign him, but I dint think you'll be happy. Peace to you all.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Obviously the last couple years were horrible for you on offense. It was all Wilson that made you competitive. Give Bevell some credit for developing Wilson though. In his early years, Wilson needed a stout run game to execute play action and a scheme that highlights his movement skills. Bevell delivered just that. When your OL sucks, and that's mostly on the management rather than coaching in my experience, you have no run game and pass protection sucks too. Cards fans have suffered through it all over the years. When your OL sucks the defense just sits on the short routes while the pass rush disrupts any chance of getting a downfield completion. Again, Wilson would often make miracles happen to escape the rush and complete a long pass. So the long routes were certainly not just on Bevell, but dictated by coverage. Bubble screens obviously an attempt to replace the non-existent run game. Nobody would allow you to dink and dunk since that's the only way your OL could have survived. At least that's how we played against you in recent contests. Wilson still made some incredible throws while 20 yards behind the LOS, but quite honestly your OL was easy to dominate for any halfway decent DL. We've often been complaining about Arians and Whisenhunt calling a too complex route tree which takes too long to develop with our bad OL. But honestly, when defenses are sitting on the short stuff and you have no run game, you can't accept their invitation but try to beat em. Of course we could've called short throws only but that would've ended in tons of interceptions. Just to put it in perspective.

 

[Mitch]

Hey guys. Seahawk fan here weighing in on Bevell. I dont think you guys are going to be happy with that signing if it indeed does happen. A few issues I have with Bevell are the following - He is an absolute horrible player personnel manager. He just cannot or does not see or call plays regarding a players strengths. Its maddening. Bubble screens. Get ready to be familiar with this play as you will see it all to often. Say goodbye to traditional screen passes as he just does not run them. WR route trees. Bevell draws up the longest, most time consuming WR routes in the game. We have one of the worst Olines in the league and Bevell still had the receivers running routes that took an hour to develop. No short or mid range stuff to speak of. Its no wonder Wilson was always running around like a chicken with his head cut off. NFL announcers have mentioned this numerous times.

There's more, but i'll stop there. Again, as a Seahawk fan I feel we won despite Darrell Bevell and not because of him. His firing was way overdue and a blessing for the organization. There's a reason he was never in consideration for a head coaching position even with our success and its because the rest of the NFL knows better. Anyways, good luck if you do sign him, but I dint think you'll be happy. Peace to you all.

Appreciate the post, but how can you explain the fact that despite playing behind one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL, Russell Wilson passed for more TDs (34) this year than any other QB? A QBR of 95.4. Plus, shouldn't Bevell get some credit for having the best 2 minute drill in the NFL (save for the Patriots)?

 

[Stout]

The problem with your perception is you really are not considering the draft to rectify our QB of the future dilemma. You like to win now, but then must understand how winning affects the use of the draft. Somehow with our talent and guts finished well enough to be at 15, and that is exactly how I wish a sucky year for the Cardinals to be now and not a top pick in the draft. There are reasons why teams let guys go at the most important position. We have been spoiled with Warner and Palmer making us think this is the solution because in doing so we admit we suck at the draft. Well, good teams which seldom lose faced with this position at QB will move up, because they are great at scouting and know their winning ways make them required to deal and move up. They will move up because they know being the Cardinals and waiting for other's misfits usually is not the solution.

You have to have faith in the scouts and front office, and if so understand they are dealing with teams who are perpetually upfront in the draft because their front offices are not good which is reflected in their records. Keim has a job, to be a bad ass and screw with these 'lesser' teams with a lesser front office and get our young QB in trade talks. If Keim cannot do this, then he should not be our GM right now but I do not think he really tried to a QB in the draft yet, and probably because Arians did not give his full support and was comfortable with what he had in my opinion. Absolutely, we need a vet to prepare for the draft not going our way but Cousins to me is an expensive bridge for a destination which he is not

Well said. I mean, I get it, @Solar7; you don't want us to get a QBOF in the draft. You're a hard-core believer in the veteran option. We've backed into Warner (yes, backed into him--signed him to be a backup, no thoughts as a starter) and had a good trade for a Palmer who wasn't as good for as long as some people think. We've also had the Kolb trade, and had guys like Skelton (I know, I was a homer) starting for us. The veteran option doesn't always work. Wouldn't it be nice to have a young stud QB for once?

As to Washington, they are the way they are because their FO sucks! It doesn't take that long to recover from a bad trade.

 

[Solar7]

Falcons, who were mostly a pathetic Cardinals like organization with a random good year every decade traded up to the 1st puck and took Vick, who made them a perennial playoff team or contender and even took them to an NFC Championship game before he ruined his life and got busted for dog fighting.

And to say Wentz... an MVP candidate who was solid as a rook and out of this world in his second year isn’t proof because he “hasn’t played two full seasons” is an incredibly specious argument. Kid’s a stud. Plain and simple. He got better AFTER the league had a full year of tape on him.

They had the fifth pick. They moved up four spots. I'm all for moving up four spots. If we were in the top ten even, I'd say fire away. Not to mention, Vick only got them above .500 (and the playoffs) twice, missed almost a full season in '03, his passing numbers were atrocious, and like it or not, leaving your team without another option because you broke the law is just as bad as being a bust on the field. Just like Daryl Washington doesn't get any excuses.

As for Wentz, I'm sorry, but he had an ACL tear. Until he comes back and shows he still has athleticism and escapability, I'm not ready to anoint him.

You lost me at “The Patriots are successful because they don’t take unnecessary risks.”

Wrong. The Patriots are successful because they have the best player EVER in the NFL and best Coach ever.

And The Patriots trade to get players like Corey Dillon (2nd round picks), Brandon Cooks (2nd round pick).

The reality is the Patriots dont have a set way of doing anything. They will splurge big in FA when they want (Stephen Gilmore last year, Amendola, Revis... hell, go back to Roosevelt Colvin during first part of Dynasty). They’ll trade away high assets for guys like Cooks. They’ll bring in good guys (Walker) they’ll sign cancers (Moss/Harrison), they’ll trade guys no one else would.

They take risks all the time and they are afforded to do so because of Brady and Bellicheck.

We are not in that position. And this team has NEVER taken a freaking risk and in a draft with A LOT of talent at QB, this is the time to do it.

You can keep kicking the can down the road, but that has gotten us 5 playoff appearances IN 30 YEARS.

That has to end. Period. This is the draft to do it.

My whole point was that they get to make pragmatic choices, not that they take no risks. But Belichick constantly trades back to build more assets, and then pounces on the right trade opportunities. He doesn't panic and trade away the meat of his next two drafts for a QB. I was replying to a post that said that the Patriots have proven you can use draft picks as cash to move up for highly valued assets, implying that they'd do it for a QB in our situation, which has no merit to it. They haven't had to worry about the position in 14 years, so to say that they would do it is silly.

Belichick has never traded into the top 10 of the draft except pre-emptively, when he had the 49ers pick and they sucked the next year, even then, he traded back to 10. There's no evidence to show that they would move up into the top 10 for a guy.

generally speaking teams in desperate need of a QB are,..well,..pretty friggin bad. One has to assume the failure rate in QB's they traded up for correlates to the overall failure rate of the franchise itself as a whole... generally speaking.

as a fan, and one who advocates trading up when the opportunity presents itself.... I have to think THIS organization does not suck as bad as san diego or cleveland..and will make the right decision and choose a QB who will be successful.

what can I POSSIBLY base that on?? Two words... FAITH.

Steve Keim has to know not only his job but likely his career as a GM in the NFL rides on that single decision. with that as the measuring stick I trust him to make a good decision.

and we dont suck like san diego and cleveland...or even the deadskins

Well, I'll say once more that I'm fine with moving up a couple of picks, but Keim's career is going to ride on wins and losses, not whether or not he gets a QB in the top ten picks.

 

[Stout]

Keim's career is going to ride on wins and losses, which is based on whether or not he gets a top, long-term QB.

FTFY

So outline your path to us acquiring a SB-winning QB, @Solar7 . You say getting a QBOF in the draft is a magical solution, while I find the idea that trading for or signing the Alex Smiths of the world and praying they can get you to--and win in--the promised land is wishful thinking. Who would you sign or trade for that will take the team on their back and win the big one?

 

[Solar7]

Well said. I mean, I get it, @Solar7; you don't want us to get a QBOF in the draft. You're a hard-core believer in the veteran option. We've backed into Warner (yes, backed into him--signed him to be a backup, no thoughts as a starter) and had a good trade for a Palmer who wasn't as good for as long as some people think. We've also had the Kolb trade, and had guys like Skelton (I know, I was a homer) starting for us. The veteran option doesn't always work. Wouldn't it be nice to have a young stud QB for once?

As to Washington, they are the way they are because their FO sucks! It doesn't take that long to recover from a bad trade.

I have never said I don't want us to get a QBOTF in the draft. If we end up picking one, I want it to be closer to 15, or in the second or third rounds. I want to give up no more than a third this year to make the move we would need to get up if someone we like is hanging out around the 10 range. I also do not want us to stick our hands in our pockets throughout the offseason and hope we're going to get lucky 3 months down the line.

I especially do not want to take away draft picks from what was the oldest team in the NFL last year that has significant holes on offense, and may be using a completely different scheme on defense.

To @cheesebeef's point about this being a draft deep in quarterbacks... awesome, let's leverage that. Let's take a guy that has slid a little bit but still has a ton of talent. The odds are that of all of these options, some will slide.

 

[Largent80]

Appreciate the post, but how can you explain the fact that despite playing behind one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL, Russell Wilson passed for more TDs (34) this year than any other QB? A QBR of 95.4. Plus, shouldn't Bevell get some credit for having the best 2 minute drill in the NFL (save for the Patriots)?

Well, since we couldnt run the ball it makes sense that Wilson was going to throw more. Do you realize that Wilson accounted for something like 90% of our offense this season? Thats crazy. If you want to credit Bevell for his 2 minute drill, you also have to credit him for his horrible first half offense, awful red zone schemes, and his opening drive sequences that has now set an NFL record for consecutive games without an opening drive TD (28 or 29 straight games now,,,,cant remember exactly). Teams have a hard time winning when you only score in the 4th quarter.

 

[Solar7]

FTFY

So outline your path to us acquiring a SB-winning QB, @Solar7 . You say getting a QBOF in the draft is a magical solution, while I find the idea that trading for or signing the Alex Smiths of the world and praying they can get you to--and win in--the promised land is wishful thinking. Who would you sign or trade for that will take the team on their back and win the big one?

Well, if you want my shortest term path to what I think will bring us success, it's signing Kirk Cousins. But let's push that off to the side.

Just to reiterate, getting a QBOF is not a magical solution, it's "identifying your guy and doing whatever it takes to get him." There isn't a doubt in my mind that somewhere in this draft is a QB that will have success at the NFL level that is not drafted in the top 10, or even the first round. Let the draft come to you to some extent, and ensure you have signed some quality players to compete against the rookie. If he is clearly not the guy... draft again. Keim should have been drafting QBs at least every two years, IMO.

 

[Stout]

I have never said I don't want us to get a QBOTF in the draft. If we end up picking one, I want it to be closer to 15, or in the second or third rounds. I want to give up no more than a third this year to make the move we would need to get up if someone we like is hanging out around the 10 range. I also do not want us to stick our hands in our pockets throughout the offseason and hope we're going to get lucky 3 months down the line.

I especially do not want to take away draft picks from what was the oldest team in the NFL last year that has significant holes on offense, and may be using a completely different scheme on defense.

To @cheesebeef's point about this being a draft deep in quarterbacks... awesome, let's leverage that. Let's take a guy that has slid a little bit but still has a ton of talent. The odds are that of all of these options, some will slide.

If the guy the team identifies slides to them, or close enough to use a 3rd to move up to get, great! If not, I hope Keim has the guts to spend at least a little more than a 3rd to go get their guy. I mean, there's cold feet and then there's cold feet, and he gets paid to make the big decisions.

There's a big difference between mortgaging the future with a giant, costly trade and being willing to part with just a 3rd rounder, which is uber-conservative. That's fine. I get that you don't want to spend picks, and you have a point about our roster. There's a big difference, however, between giving up a 3rd, a 5th, and next year's 2nd, for instance, and the RGIII draft trade. There's a happy medium between only offering enough to move up a spot, or maybe two, and trading up to the #1 pick.

 

[Largent80]

When your OL sucks, and that's mostly on the management rather than coaching in my experience, you have no run game and pass protection sucks too.

I blame most of our OL woes on Tom Cable and his promises of building garbage players into serviceable linemen. When we won the SB a few years ago, we had one of the highest paid lines in the league. Our pass protection even then was horrible. The run stats didnt look to bad because Lynch led the league in yardage after contact. I have a chart somewhere that shows the ranking of the Oline under Cable somewhere that i'll have to dig out. Anyways, its rather shocking how many linemen have left Seattle and have succeeded on other teams. Cable's ZBS scheme was the problem more so than the players. Even all pro Duane Brown looked average under Cable. He and his draft input needed to go just as much as Bevell in my opinion.

 

[Stout]

Well, if you want my shortest term path to what I think will bring us success, it's signing Kirk Cousins. But let's push that off to the side.

Just to reiterate, getting a QBOF is not a magical solution, it's "identifying your guy and doing whatever it takes to get him." There isn't a doubt in my mind that somewhere in this draft is a QB that will have success at the NFL level that is not drafted in the top 10, or even the first round. Let the draft come to you to some extent, and ensure you have signed some quality players to compete against the rookie. If he is clearly not the guy... draft again. Keim should have been drafting QBs at least every two years, IMO.

On that we definitely agree. It's criminal that we haven't taken any shots like this to date, outside...I don't even want to type his name lol

As to Cousins, do you see him leading us to a SB? I don't. Maybe he could 'not lose' with a Ravenesque D, ala Trent Dilfer, but that's not a guy you give 25+mill a year to.

As to getting top QBs later in the draft, it is so infinitesimally small a chance as to be derisive. FAR smaller than getting a top QB at the top of the draft. That's not the way you address QBOF if you mean to seriously address it. It's a way to take a shot every few years in the hopes of getting lucky or of grooming a good backup. I noticed your wording there, though, was a QB that will "have success at the NFL level". That's a far cry from having a championship QB.

I'm tired of praying the next vet will be good and hoping he can last longer than a few years. Other franchises have gotten Big Bens and Peyton Mannings. Why not us?

 

[Solar7]

If the guy the team identifies slides to them, or close enough to use a 3rd to move up to get, great! If not, I hope Keim has the guts to spend at least a little more than a 3rd to go get their guy. I mean, there's cold feet and then there's cold feet, and he gets paid to make the big decisions.

There's a big difference between mortgaging the future with a giant, costly trade and being willing to part with just a 3rd rounder, which is uber-conservative. That's fine. I get that you don't want to spend picks, and you have a point about our roster. There's a big difference, however, between giving up a 3rd, a 5th, and next year's 2nd, for instance, and the RGIII draft trade. There's a happy medium between only offering enough to move up a spot, or maybe two, and trading up to the #1 pick.

My biggest worry here is that it is a seller's market. Moving in front of the Broncos and Jets is going to be very hard. And if the Broncos and Jets both pass on "our guy," (assuming they don't get Cousins or something), then I'm going to be very concerned about the true talent of that player since I think both of those two teams actually have it worse off at QB than we do (a logjam of guys that aren't even really backups). I can swallow a third and a 5th, maybe next year's 2nd... but I'm really reticent to give up a future 1st/2nd when it could turn out to be a high pick with a lot of value.

On that we definitely agree. It's criminal that we haven't taken any shots like this to date, outside...I don't even want to type his name lol

As to Cousins, do you see him leading us to a SB? I don't. Maybe he could 'not lose' with a Ravenesque D, ala Trent Dilfer, but that's not a guy you give 25+mill a year to.

As to getting top QBs later in the draft, it is so infinitesimally small a chance as to be derisive. FAR smaller than getting a top QB at the top of the draft. That's not the way you address QBOF if you mean to seriously address it. It's a way to take a shot every few years in the hopes of getting lucky or of grooming a good backup. I noticed your wording there, though, was a QB that will "have success at the NFL level". That's a far cry from having a championship QB.

I'm tired of praying the next vet will be good and hoping he can last longer than a few years. Other franchises have gotten Big Bens and Peyton Mannings. Why not us?

I think the talent around Cousins, and an organization that publicly does not trust him, is the reason he hasn't been a winner. He is a top ten QB statistically and I think (as someone who watches a lot of Redskins games), that he is going to be very successful if in a place where they can run the ball and at least field a top 15 defense. I very much think that on the right team, he will lead them deep into the playoffs on a regular basis.

Other franchises have gotten those QBs by being in the right place at the right time. Peyton Manning was the first overall pick. No one traded up for Ben, he fell into the Steelers' laps, and it just happened to be the best QB class of the past 25 years. Point is, those guys don't come from being desperate and trading up.

 

[MrYeahBut]

@Solar7 I really appreciate all input you've done in the last month or so.

I'm totally gun shy about all of the choices... Cousins, Smith, Bradford, re-signing Stanton, moving up in the draft..etc. Frankly, they're all scary.

 

[Solar7]

@Solar7 I really appreciate all input you've done in the last month or so.

I'm totally gun shy about all of the choices... Cousins, Smith, Bradford, re-signing Stanton, moving up in the draft..etc. Frankly, they're all scary.

Thanks. I hope I haven't been too combative and given anyone the wrong impression.

 

[JeffGollin]

@Solar7 I really appreciate all input you've done in the last month or so.

I'm totally gun shy about all of the choices... Cousins, Smith, Bradford, re-signing Stanton, moving up in the draft..etc. Frankly, they're all scary.

It's always scary when you have no QB on your roster from which to draw baseline standards of play.

My gut tells me that our least risky route to success will have us drafting the BQBA* at #15 and structuring our roster to,add at least one veteran QB who can win us 65% our games and a #3 guy who gives us a shot at winning 50% of our games if needed. I think there are 6 - 8 QBOFs in this draft, & at least one should be available when we pick.

* BQBA = Best QB Available.

Strategy isn't all that different from last season other than that the QBs are different and we use a #15 on our QBOF. I'd only trade up (to, say, #7) if we were totally in love with the available QB. It's not a fail-safe strategy, but I think it's our least risky.

 

[imaCafan]

So how are future picks valued? The #1 pic is 3000 points & #15 is 1050 (according to Walterfootball.com) how does a future first get valued?