Day 2 Camp Report

[jw7]

Hall was a distant fourth. He never even hit the trash can or even got close to it.

One other thing that you did not mention that we briefly discussed is that Hall can NOT throw a spiral. Its not like his balls were terrible wobblers, but out of about I would guess 16 throws, not one maintained the same axis.

That's gotta be scary for receivers.

 

[TigToad]

I like Matt signing after the practice. It was one of the things I admired most about Kurt, was his willingness to put in the time on the field and then give to the fans. It would be another awesome less for Matt to learn... and it may buy him a tiny, tiny bit of slack with fans.

 

[Dayman]

It sounds like DRC is ready to take the next step. I loved the pick when it happened, but I never thought he would be this good this soon.

 

[Shane]

Not entirely. He was also drafted because Bryant Johnson had skillet hands.

No he wasn't. Breaston was considered to have piss poor hands as a WR coming out of college. He was drafted for his KR and PR skills.

 

[SunsTzu]

No he wasn't. Breaston was considered to have piss poor hands as a WR coming out of college. He was drafted for his KR and PR skills.

Exactly. Todd Haley even said that when Breaston was drafted he never thought he'd cut it at WR and thought of him as only a returner.

 

[187]

Another great writeup. I really need to get up for a few days of camp, I'm craving a football fix.

From rotoworld.com:
This indicates that Roberts was drafted primarily to return punts. Not be a 4th or 5th string WR. You'd be nuts to use a third round selection for that. So if he can't return punts he was a wasted pick. The Cards can get guys off the street to be adequate #4's.

This isn't like 1990 when the Cards took Proehl in the third. Roy Green turned 33 that year and JT Smith 35. That was a smart pick.

EDIT: Buddy Ryan was such a bum. All Proehl did after Ryan ran him off was accumulate 5,038 yards receiving with 33 TDs and play in 4 NFC Championship games and two Super Bowls.

Uhhhm, the team definitely did NOT draft Andre Roberts in the 3rd round with the intention of him being a punt returner only. Steve and Doucet both have contracts up in 2011, so I guarantee you that Andre is a backup plan in case we can't resign one of those two. The Cardinals have been pretty good about drafting players with the intent of them being potential replacements of current starters. Tim Hightower, Early Doucet, Rashad Johnson, etc are all examples. As it has been said Roberts was one of the best looking WR's leading up to the draft, so there's no way we drafted him without planning on him playing WR.

 

[Garthshort]

Chris, thanks for the effort. If you do make it back in a couple of weeks, it would be great to see your take on players on a "before and after basis". Who progressed, who regressed and who plateaued, type of assessment. Either way, thanks again.

 

[Mulli]

Thanks for the writeup, Chris Sanders.

 

[lobo]

thank you very much chris for taking the time to inform us with a non-emotional reporters twist to it...that is the way it should be...

 

[Catfish]

Chris-----from all of us, THANKS so much for your insight into tc for the first two days. Just reading your report makes one feel like he was there. We truly appreciate your efforts. You are much appreciated by those of us who can't go to camp. Thanks again !!!

 

[TJ]

Thanks again Chris

I am going to be up there on Wednesday and will try and report back to you all.

 

[Duckjake]

No he wasn't. Breaston was considered to have piss poor hands as a WR coming out of college. He was drafted for his KR and PR skills.

56 catches for 670 yards. At Michigan? That would be like 112 1200 yards for a Big XII team. Must have had really bad hands.

 

[JeffGollin]

Alas Poor Jorrick...

Awesome post, Chris - keep 'em coming.

One tiny nitpick - I think you switched Jorrick Calvin's 2 names. You refer to him as "Calvin Jorrick" (So did I for awhile - seems logical because Calvin is a more common name than Jorrick). Card website lists him as Jorrick Calvin, so I'm assuming that's his actual name).

Tricky part of these early drill write-ups is sorting out what's important and what's not. The Roberts example is a perfect one: Is his potential importance to the team as (a) a sharp-cut/good hands receiver, (b) return man or (c) combo of both? Are the dropped passes an accurate reflection of good or bad his hands are? Or do they just reflect early-camp rust or jitters?

My point - A lot of the stuff that's being reported here and by Sando, Somers and others will turn out to be fascinating indicators of how a player will perform when under live-fire, but some of it will represent overkill. The trickiness (& fun) for all of us will be to figure out which is which.

 

[dogpoo32]

Thanks Chris!

 

[Chopper0080]

Another great writeup. I really need to get up for a few days of camp, I'm craving a football fix.



Uhhhm, the team definitely did NOT draft Andre Roberts in the 3rd round with the intention of him being a punt returner only. Steve and Doucet both have contracts up in 2011, so I guarantee you that Andre is a backup plan in case we can't resign one of those two. The Cardinals have been pretty good about drafting players with the intent of them being potential replacements of current starters. Tim Hightower, Early Doucet, Rashad Johnson, etc are all examples. As it has been said Roberts was one of the best looking WR's leading up to the draft, so there's no way we drafted him without planning on him playing WR.

No, not a punt returner only, but a receiver who had adequate small school production, who could also fill in a need as a punt returner. The Bears didn't take Devin Hester in the 2nd round because they were looking for him to contribute as a receiver that year. They took a project at wide receiver who could contribute as a returner immediately. The Cardinals drafted two returners in recent years in Breaston and Stephens-Howling. Neither of these picks were higher than the 5th round. Yes Roberts could develop into a fantastic receiver, but I haven't seen anything yet to prove this. What I do know is that we valued this player because of his ability to be a 4th wide receiver and help in the return game. If he can't do one or the other, than we obviously over valued him.

Without being a factor in the return game, Andre Roberts was not the 88th best player in the draft. Essentially this is what I am getting at.

 

[kerouac9]

I like Matt signing after the practice. It was one of the things I admired most about Kurt, was his willingness to put in the time on the field and then give to the fans. It would be another awesome less for Matt to learn... and it may buy him a tiny, tiny bit of slack with fans.

Matt has always been good at signing autographs. I remember two years ago him and Kurt were both good at working their way down the line when both were involved in a "fierce" quarterback competition.

Chris, thanks so much for the awesome write-ups. They were fantastic. It's interesting to see how your breakdowns compare and contrast to Mike Sando's at ESPN's and Darren's over at the team website. The biggest being Toler, who Darren described as getting abused yesterday during practices.

Also: Andre Roberts was drafted to be a PR. There shouldn't be any mistaking that. A PR this year. He was drafted to take the pressure off Steve Breaston, who as we all know now is going to be a starter. If he doesn't win that role in training camp, it won't be a "wasted pick," as DJ puts it, but it'll be a disappointment along the lines of Rashad Johnson last year, in that we'll have to carry him on the active roster along with an actual punt returner whom we may not have intended to keep around. And we don't have Antrel Rolle to be the emergency backup PR like we've had the last couple years.

The good news is that it's still VERY early in the process, and the small-school kid might just have some big eyes right now. There's lots of time for him to settle in.

 

[kerouac9]

No, not a punt returner only, but a receiver who had adequate small school production, who could also fill in a need as a punt returner. The Bears didn't take Devin Hester in the 2nd round because they were looking for him to contribute as a receiver that year. They took a project at wide receiver who could contribute as a returner immediately. The Cardinals drafted two returners in recent years in Breaston and Stephens-Howling. Neither of these picks were higher than the 5th round. Yes Roberts could develop into a fantastic receiver, but I haven't seen anything yet to prove this. What I do know is that we valued this player because of his ability to be a 4th wide receiver and help in the return game. If he can't do one or the other, than we obviously over valued him.

Without being a factor in the return game, Andre Roberts was not the 88th best player in the draft. Essentially this is what I am getting at.

Just FYI: Hester wasn't drafted as a WR at all. He was drafted as a cornerback--that's why he still wears #23. I think he played that position, as well, in an emergency basis his rookie year (8 tackles, 2 fumble recoveries in 2006), but he was really bad at it. He ended up being such a dynamic return specialist that the Bears, who had few other options on the outside, decided to try him at WR--kind of like the Cards did with Rolle for a couple years.

 

[Chopper0080]

Just FYI: Hester wasn't drafted as a WR at all. He was drafted as a cornerback--that's why he still wears #23. I think he played that position, as well, in an emergency basis his rookie year (8 tackles, 2 fumble recoveries in 2006), but he was really bad at it. He ended up being such a dynamic return specialist that the Bears, who had few other options on the outside, decided to try him at WR--kind of like the Cards did with Rolle for a couple years.

I forgot that. Embarrassed now.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

Yeah you are technically correct but the odds of that happening are about the same as the Rams winning the next Super Bowl.

After seeing this kid in mini camps I am willing to take those odds. A couple of bad days to start camp is not gonna make me think he is a bust and even if he doesnt become the PR of this team the kid can ball.

 

[Dayman]

http://twitter.com/cardschatter

Rookie WR Andre Roberts having a tough morning. Too many drops.

Doesn't look like it's getting any better today.

 

[Bert]

Nice job Chris. Its awesome that Rhodes is signing and accessible on twitter, how was he on the field?

 

[82CardsGrad]

56 catches for 670 yards. At Michigan? That would be like 112 1200 yards for a Big XII team. Must have had really bad hands.

Agree.. if anything, I seem to recall the knocks on Breaston were more about his speed and his route-running.

 

[earthsci]

Steve Breaston
WR | (6'0", 193, 4.46) | MICHIGAN

Scouts Grade: 52 Selected by: Arizona Cardinals
Round: 5
Pick (Overall): 5(142)
View by: Round | Player | NCAA School | Position | NFL Team | Flag | All Ranked Players | NFL Draft History
You are signed into Insider and have access to the exclusive draft content below.


Strengths: A homerun threat with the ball in his hands -- as a receiver, return man and on reverses. He shows great vision as a runner and sees creases opening up quickly. Shows very good initial burst and top-end speed. He displays the necessary second-gear to run away from defenders in the open field. Possesses outstanding body control and balance, showing the ability to stop-and-start without losing much in transition. He is elusive in space and will consistently make the first defender miss. He is one of the premier return specialists in this year's class.

Weaknesses: Has had some durability issues in the past. Lingering shoulder injury affected his play in 2005. He lacks ideal bulk and strength. Is lean and gets pushed around as a route runner at times. Will have some trouble getting off the line of scrimmage versus bigger, more physical defensive backs in the NFL. He does not make a lot of plays as a receiver in traffic. Is more dangerous after the catch than he is as a vertical route runner. He is an unpolished receiver who must improve the crispness of his routes. He disappears from games and seems to lack natural instincts and recognition skills as a receiver. He will lose focus and drop "catchable" passes occasionally. He lacks ideal strength as a run blocker and occasionally will fail to sustain even when in position and locked on.

Overall: Breaston was redshirted in 2002. In 2003, he played in all of Michigan's games making one start against Indiana (9/27) and caught 38 passes for 444 yards (11.7 average) and three touchdowns. Breaston also returned 45 punts for 619 yards (13.8 average) and scored two touchdowns. Breaston played in 11 games in 2004, missing the Indiana game with a finger injury, and finished the year with 34 receptions for 291 yards (8.6 average) and three touchdowns. He added 28 kickoff returns for 689 yards (24.6 average) and 24 punt returns for 292 yards (12.2 average) and one touchdown. Breaston played in all 11 games in 2005, (seven starts) caught 26 passes for 291 yard (11.2 average) and two touchdowns. He also finished with 23 kickoff returns for 646 yards (28.1 average) and one touchdown, as well as 29 punt returns for 365 yards (12.3 average). For his career, Breaston has carried the ball 32 times for 242 yards (7.6 average) and two touchdowns. He finished the 2006 season playing in all 13 games, catching 58 passes for 670 yards (11.6 average) and two touchdowns. He also added 29 punt returns for 332 yards (11.4 average) and a touchdown to go along with 21 kickoff returns for 467 yards (22.2 average).
Breaston finished strong as a senior but he lacks the physical tools to ever emerge as a difference-maker in the NFL. At best, Breaston will become a No. 4 receiver and a solid punt return specialist at the next level. In our opinion, Breaston is worth selecting no earlier than the fourth round of the 2007 draft.



* Player biographies are provided by Scouts Inc.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/...layer?id=10534

 

[Chopper0080]

Steve Breaston
WR | (6'0", 193, 4.46) | MICHIGAN

Scouts Grade: 52 Selected by: Arizona Cardinals
Round: 5
Pick (Overall): 5(142)
View by: Round | Player | NCAA School | Position | NFL Team | Flag | All Ranked Players | NFL Draft History
You are signed into Insider and have access to the exclusive draft content below.


Strengths: A homerun threat with the ball in his hands -- as a receiver, return man and on reverses. He shows great vision as a runner and sees creases opening up quickly. Shows very good initial burst and top-end speed. He displays the necessary second-gear to run away from defenders in the open field. Possesses outstanding body control and balance, showing the ability to stop-and-start without losing much in transition. He is elusive in space and will consistently make the first defender miss. He is one of the premier return specialists in this year's class.

Weaknesses: Has had some durability issues in the past. Lingering shoulder injury affected his play in 2005. He lacks ideal bulk and strength. Is lean and gets pushed around as a route runner at times. Will have some trouble getting off the line of scrimmage versus bigger, more physical defensive backs in the NFL. He does not make a lot of plays as a receiver in traffic. Is more dangerous after the catch than he is as a vertical route runner. He is an unpolished receiver who must improve the crispness of his routes. He disappears from games and seems to lack natural instincts and recognition skills as a receiver. He will lose focus and drop "catchable" passes occasionally. He lacks ideal strength as a run blocker and occasionally will fail to sustain even when in position and locked on.

Overall: Breaston was redshirted in 2002. In 2003, he played in all of Michigan's games making one start against Indiana (9/27) and caught 38 passes for 444 yards (11.7 average) and three touchdowns. Breaston also returned 45 punts for 619 yards (13.8 average) and scored two touchdowns. Breaston played in 11 games in 2004, missing the Indiana game with a finger injury, and finished the year with 34 receptions for 291 yards (8.6 average) and three touchdowns. He added 28 kickoff returns for 689 yards (24.6 average) and 24 punt returns for 292 yards (12.2 average) and one touchdown. Breaston played in all 11 games in 2005, (seven starts) caught 26 passes for 291 yard (11.2 average) and two touchdowns. He also finished with 23 kickoff returns for 646 yards (28.1 average) and one touchdown, as well as 29 punt returns for 365 yards (12.3 average). For his career, Breaston has carried the ball 32 times for 242 yards (7.6 average) and two touchdowns. He finished the 2006 season playing in all 13 games, catching 58 passes for 670 yards (11.6 average) and two touchdowns. He also added 29 punt returns for 332 yards (11.4 average) and a touchdown to go along with 21 kickoff returns for 467 yards (22.2 average).
Breaston finished strong as a senior but he lacks the physical tools to ever emerge as a difference-maker in the NFL. At best, Breaston will become a No. 4 receiver and a solid punt return specialist at the next level. In our opinion, Breaston is worth selecting no earlier than the fourth round of the 2007 draft.



* Player biographies are provided by Scouts Inc.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/...layer?id=10534

I will ask the follow up question here. Is Andre Roberts a significantly better prospect than this?

 

[Duckjake]

I will ask the follow up question here. Is Andre Roberts a significantly better prospect than this?

In addition is Doucet harder to unseat for the #3 position than Bryant Johnson?

That's the problem. A 4th WR isn't going to get many balls thrown to him, especially with Warner gone and Wells/Hightower running, so Roberts isn't going to get the chance to show much of anything as a WR in my opinion.

There's no skillet hands Johnson in the #3 slot who has no future with the Cards like when Breaston was a rookie.