Denny Green was just on ESPN Radio

[Stout]

Just on with Colin Cowherd. I'll try and remember everything said.

-Excited with defense-made huge strides last year and now have two ends that will wreak havoc-Wilson ready to become possibly best safety in NFL

-Thinks Shelton-Henry deal is very close, but hasn't happened yet-LJ went for visit, said didn't need Henry for a visit, because they know all they need to know-NO mention of any additional compensation

-Talked about QBs some-mentioned how odd it was they were unsuccessful-Indy and Minny are the only other 2 teams that run this offense, and out of the three, only the Cards failed-talked up Warner-MY OPINION-doesn't sound like there is ANY hint of an open competition (thank god!), because though he didn't lay blame, Denny talked a lot about how so many QBs have been plugged in and were successful right away

-Final note-Colin Cowherd was giving us some MAJOR love, saying we're just around the corner...I'm loving it here

 

[JPlay]

What do you mean we run the same offense as Indy and Minny. Are you talking about last year?

 

[jerryp]

What do you mean we run the same offense as Indy and Minny. Are you talking about last year?

We don't run the same offense as the Colts unless we run a bunch of zone stretch runs and play action off of those zone stretch runs. Now I don't get to watch the Cards games being here in Buffalo so maybe we do run a bunch of zone stretches. You guys will have to tell me if that's the case.

Basically, since they use the same zone blocking scheme for runs and passes, the defense has to wait and see if Manning hands off to James or not.

Here are some good articles on the Colts offensive line blocking scheme.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ramblings.php?p=2048&cat=1

And this one is about the zone stretches with play action.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ramblings.php?p=134&cat=1

So is that our offense? I doubt it.

 

[SouthNZoneFan]

Was there any real wonder if there would be a contest for QB? McCown will be a good back up this year but you have to go with Warner (for a year or two)..

 

[clif]

-MY OPINION-doesn't sound like there is ANY hint of an open competition (thank god!)..

why does the thought of open competition scare you? Look we all know that the overwhelming favorite to start the season is Warner, but I just don't get why there would'nt be a competition?

 

[jstadvl]

Don't get them started Clif.

before you know it this thread wil become nothing but a kick McCown out the door thread. For want of not using more colorful language.lol

 

[Gee!]

McCown will be a good back up this year

And the rest of his career

 

[seesred]

There will be IMO plenty of snaps to show the coach where Mccown stands. It ani't over till the skinny lady sings. They might go in (the coaches) thinking only Warner but, competition is a funny thing. All of a sudden Warner starts holding the ball to long, playing dropsie, missing recievers and you end up with coaches rethinking the whole position. I hope Warner can find some of that magic he has had man was he good, but it has been missing for a couple of years.We will see in August.

GBR
40
In Green we trust

 

[Gee!]

There will be IMO plenty of snaps to show the coach Mccown belongs in the stands.

I agree!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

before you know it this thread wil become nothing but a kick McCown out the door thread. For want of not using more colorful language.lol

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...Give McCown a break, he will be good...

 

[JPlay]

McCown?....Uh, remember the Tampa game. Probably one of the worst Quarterbacked games in the history of the NFL, and all football games ever for that matter. And this was after his benching against a bad team.

 

[Russ Smith]

There will be IMO plenty of snaps to show the coach where Mccown stands. It ani't over till the skinny lady sings. They might go in (the coaches) thinking only Warner but, competition is a funny thing. All of a sudden Warner starts holding the ball to long, playing dropsie, missing recievers and you end up with coaches rethinking the whole position. I hope Warner can find some of that magic he has had man was he good, but it has been missing for a couple of years.We will see in August.

GBR
40
In Green we trust

Holding the ball and dropsies yes, missing receivers no, even now he's as good as there is at delivering the ball to an open WR in stride and on the money. The question is can he get rid of the ball quickly, and hold onto it when sacked?

I don't think we'll be seeing "highlight reels" of guys wide open and the ball sailing over their head this year, but I hope we're not seeing clips of guys wide open while Kurt is staring at the pass rush and taking sacks.

assuming we solve the issues with Quan I gotta believe we'll have much better WR's than the Giants did last year so Kurt should be willing to get rid of the ball here.

 

[Stout]

why does the thought of open competition scare you? Look we all know that the overwhelming favorite to start the season is Warner, but I just don't get why there would'nt be a competition?

Shouldn't have added the 'thank God', I suppose. It's how I feel on the issue, as you well know, but I should have stuck to Green. From him not mentioning McCown once, talking up Warner, talking about the disappointing offense, and mentioning how QBs pick up the system easily, I read that McCown had no shot. Take it for what you will. I don't want to kick up an argument over it again, though---NOT my intention. My apologies

 

[Stout]

Jplay, Jerry, I didn't say that I know we run the same offense, DENNY GREEN said they run the same offense. Care to argue with him?

 

[JeffGollin]

DENNY GREEN said they run the same offense.
The irony is that we may run the same offense system as Indy, but having Peyton Manning back there turns the Colt offense into something unique & different from any other offense in the league (including ours).

 

[clif]

Shouldn't have added the 'thank God', I suppose. It's how I feel on the issue, as you well know, but I should have stuck to Green. From him not mentioning McCown once, talking up Warner, talking about the disappointing offense, and mentioning how QBs pick up the system easily, I read that McCown had no shot. Take it for what you will. I don't want to kick up an argument over it again, though---NOT my intention. My apologies

I sure as heck don't want the arguement to start again. I just want to see competition so that the best players are playing.

 

[jerryp]

Jplay, Jerry, I didn't say that I know we run the same offense, DENNY GREEN said they run the same offense. Care to argue with him?

Stout, I never said you said anything. Second, Denny Green says a lot of things. People throw out the term "west coast offense" a lot too, half the league is running a west coast offense if you listen to the coaches. Doesn't mean they are running a true west coast offense.

The fact is, the Colts use a zone blocking scheme to make their runs and passes look identical. The play actions aren't just play actions, they are play actions off the exact same run the Colts use as their bread and butter. The off tackle zone stretch.

Now I asked, do we do this? I did not ask what Denny Green said. I already read what he said. I asked if this is what we do. If we aren't doing this, then we aren't running the Colts offense. Simple as that. Denny can say whatever he wants, doesn't change what we've observed on the field.

My interpretation of Denny's statement that we run the same offense as the Vikings and Colts is this;

"I want to pass a lot."

Does anyone care to answer my question, or are we looking for confrontation over who said what and arguments over McCown? Because I'm tired of the latter.

 

[BACH]

Just on with Colin Cowherd. I'll try and remember everything said.

-Excited with defense-made huge strides last year and now have two ends that will wreak havoc-Wilson ready to become possibly best safety in NFL

-Thinks Shelton-Henry deal is very close, but hasn't happened yet-LJ went for visit, said didn't need Henry for a visit, because they know all they need to know-NO mention of any additional compensation

-Talked about QBs some-mentioned how odd it was they were unsuccessful-Indy and Minny are the only other 2 teams that run this offense, and out of the three, only the Cards failed-talked up Warner-MY OPINION-doesn't sound like there is ANY hint of an open competition (thank god!), because though he didn't lay blame, Denny talked a lot about how so many QBs have been plugged in and were successful right away

-Final note-Colin Cowherd was giving us some MAJOR love, saying we're just around the corner...I'm loving it here

Found this on http://www.gbnreport.com/coyle.htm

The Bills’ have put runner Travis Henry on the trading blocking after he stated that he will not return to Buffalo after losing his starting job to emerging young runner Willis McGahee last fall. He has been rumored in a trade for the Cardinals’ OT L.J. Shelton that appears to be a natural deal for both clubs, but one that is contingent on the players selected in the top ten in April’s NFL Draft ’05. The deal allows each team to address a major need area without surrendering any of this years selections, though the Bills reportedly want to flip second round picks with the Cardinals to completed the transaction. Arizona’s second round pick is currently the 44th overall, while the Bills who pick 55th overall and they do not have a #1 pick this year as a result of the draft day deal with the Cowboys that gave them current starting QB J.P. Losman. Arizona wants the Henry deal completed in principal, but not announced until the club is on the clock that would allow them to select one of the premier defensive prospects on the board at the 8th overall position. Otherwise, the Cardinals will look to address their running back problem with either Ronnie Brown or Cedric Benson expected to be available. Henry will be an unrestricted free agent next offseason and a player who most likely sees very limited action in Buffalo next fall. Shelton is ready to move on after an inconsistent performance with the Cards and a new start in Buffalo would be ideal for both him and the Bills with his acquisition addressing a major need at left tackle.

Still a rumor... But the rumor that makes most sense. Green wants to wait, because it could ruin the BPA approach on draft day. My guess is that Rolle and DJ are the only D players ranked in the first group along with Smith, Brown, Benson et al on the Cards' board. If Rolle or DJ are there Green will draft one of them, but if both are gone the BAP approach would dictate Green to take Benson AND not reach for a D player (remember - there are very different opinions about both Jones and Rogers)

 

[cardsfaithful22]

DENNY GREEN said they run the same offense.
The irony is that we may run the same offense system as Indy, but having Peyton Manning back there turns the Colt offense into something unique & different from any other offense in the league (including ours).

He said Minny runs the same offense aswell, and having Daunte Culpepper back there turns the offense unique and different, perhaps this offense can turn Warner into a stud aswell.

 

[Russ Smith]

Found this on http://www.gbnreport.com/coyle.htm




Still a rumor... But the rumor that makes most sense. Green wants to wait, because it could ruin the BPA approach on draft day. My guess is that Rolle and DJ are the only D players ranked in the first group along with Smith, Brown, Benson et al on the Cards' board. If Rolle or DJ are there Green will draft one of them, but if both are gone the BAP approach would dictate Green to take Benson AND not reach for a D player (remember - there are very different opinions about both Jones and Rogers)

Why would the deal being announced prevent Green from going BPA? He could still draft a RB at 8 if he feels that RB is the BPA.

It would seem to me the reason for in principle but not final is Green wants to make sure that he doesn't give up Shelton for Henry and then have a RB he loves fall into his lap. Because by not finalizing, if that happens, you take the RB and keep Shelton or pursue another trade with him.

If you've already closed the deal, now you have to explain to fans why you drafted Benson after dealing for Henry. You can still go BPA there's nothing that stops it, you just have to be willing to take the heat and I'm sure Green is.


The whole idea that Green always goes BPA is silly anyways, he doesn't. in 2001 he lost Robert Smith to retirement and hey what a coinicidence Bennett was the BPA that year. He passed up Kendrell Bell, Fred Smoot, Jamie Winborn etc. That same draft he took Willie Howard in round 2 with Shaun Rogers on the board, Howard was a good prospect at Stanford, but he hurt his knee before the draft and Green still took him and he was a bust.

In 2000 they needed help on the DL and hey miracle the first 3 BPA picks were all DL's, Chris Hovan, Fred Robbins and Michael Boireau 2 of whom were not exactly great picks. The 2000 Viking draft was downright horrible.

99 he went BPA and hit big on Culpepper over guys like Kearse or moving up to get McAllister or Bailey but then he got the whiff of all whiffs on Underwood. Kleinsasser and Talance Sawyer were the other guys from that draft who ever did anything.

People should really look at his drafts in Minnesota, what we saw last year was NOT the norm it was a great draft in a year where a lot of teams had great drafts. I really hope it's because he learned something while sitting out 2 years and it helped him in the draft.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/MIN

 

[BACH]

It would seem to me the reason for in principle but not final is Green wants to make sure that he doesn't give up Shelton for Henry and then have a RB he loves fall into his lap. Because by not finalizing, if that happens, you take the RB and keep Shelton or pursue another trade with him.

Well, isn't that the exact same thing that I'm saying???

The meaning of BAP is not always to be taken literally. You know that every team set up their draft board in groups. Green could allow himself to draft a lower ranking player from that group under the BAP approach if it fits a need, BUT he would never draft a player from a lower ranking group.

Rolle and DJ are the only D players in the top group of players (My guess). If neither one of them are there at #8 then Benson would be the pick, hence making the Henry trade unnessesary..

 

[sportznutt]

rumor makes sense to me......this is definitely a win win, and I really dont want to swap 2nds.....unless Buffalo offers something on top of that.......which I doubt.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, isn't that the exact same thing that I'm saying???

The meaning of BAP is not always to be taken literally. You know that every team set up their draft board in groups. Green could allow himself to draft a lower ranking player from that group under the BAP approach if it fits a need, BUT he would never draft a player from a lower ranking group.

Rolle and DJ are the only D players in the top group of players (My guess). If neither one of them are there at #8 then Benson would be the pick, hence making the Henry trade unnessesary..

Maybe I missed your meaning then, I do that now and then.

Green has said repeatedly he drafts BPA period, doesn't care about need or what position a guy plays. My point was if that's true whether Henry is finalized or not, if the BPA is a RB, Green will take him if he follows his BPA mantra.

The reason I think he wants to wait is Green doesn't WANT to make that deal until he knows the guy he wants is gone. I think we could see a draft day scenario were say Benson goes and within minutes ESPN is saying FYI the Cards just traded LJ Shelton to Buffalo for Travis Henry.

The rest of my post was to point out Green really doesn't draft BPA he drafts BPA according to need. Unless you honestly believe that in many of his worst drafts he had all those crappy DL's rated ahead of good players at other positions and not that he needed DL and reached repeatedly in those years to get them.


I still say the way things are now Green will take a CB at 8 and tell ESPN "well Rolle/Rogers/Jones was the top rated player on our board so we took him."

 

[az jam]

People should really look at his drafts in Minnesota, what we saw last year was NOT the norm it was a great draft in a year where a lot of teams had great drafts. I really hope it's because he learned something while sitting out 2 years and it helped him in the draft.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/MIN

In Denny's Viking 10 year coaching period there were many more hits than misses. Denny usually did very well on the first round pick and the offense players drafted seemed to be better picks than those on defense. But the truth (which you stated) also is that some years the draft talent is much better than others. But I don't want to get into a debate as we both know that every gm/head coach has hits and misses. Additionally when you are a playoff team as the Vikings consistently were, you have a lower picks in all the rounds. Hopefully next year the Cards will be picking as a playoff team. So we better make this a good draft.

 

[Rocco]

People should really look at his drafts in Minnesota, what we saw last year was NOT the norm it was a great draft in a year where a lot of teams had great drafts. I really hope it's because he learned something while sitting out 2 years and it helped him in the draft.

I agree with you that last year's draft class was weighted towards success. But let's not underestimate the job we did in last year's draft because of that.

Now it's still too early to tell but so far it looks like we had one of the top drafts in the league. In time, we may end up having had THE top draft.

Several teams, including Miami and the 49ers, received mediocre to very poor production from their drafts last year.

I think Green deserves more credit for last year's draft than just having a loaded group of players to choose from. It wasn't a slam dunk certainty by any means.