DeSean Jackson - My thoughts on why Cards should show interest

[BigRedRage]

Can you give me ONE example of a quarterback who got significantly better after their team surrounded him with "more talented" receivers? A quarterback can make good receivers look awesome and average receivers look good (Phil Rivers, Drew Brees, and Brett Favre are all testament to this), but bad quarterbacks make good WRs look worse all the freaking time. Braylon Edwards didn't suck, the quarterbacks around him in Cleveland did.

With the exception of Anquan Boldin, it's rare that a wideout is going to shine if the quarterback delivering him the ball isn't at least average. Even Jake Plummer got better when he left here, despite arguably having less talent on the outside with the Broncos than he had here. Giving Blaine Gabbert Megatron, Fitz, and Andre Johnson aren't going to suddenly make him a good quarterback.

david boston

 

[Chopper0080]

Can you give me ONE example of a quarterback who got significantly better after their team surrounded him with "more talented" receivers? A quarterback can make good receivers look awesome and average receivers look good (Phil Rivers, Drew Brees, and Brett Favre are all testament to this), but bad quarterbacks make good WRs look worse all the freaking time. Braylon Edwards didn't suck, the quarterbacks around him in Cleveland did.

With the exception of Anquan Boldin, it's rare that a wideout is going to shine if the quarterback delivering him the ball isn't at least average. Even Jake Plummer got better when he left here, despite arguably having less talent on the outside with the Broncos than he had here. Giving Blaine Gabbert Megatron, Fitz, and Andre Johnson aren't going to suddenly make him a good quarterback.

Eli Manning has went from a game manager to an upper echelon QB with Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz this year, and Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham and Steve Smith the years before.

Better talent at WR made him a much better QB.

 

[TJ]

david boston

When he, Jenkins, Sanders, and Gilmore went out in 2002, Plummer played like garbage.

Also, you cant have a $50million quarterback and $2.00 receivers. There isn't one elite QB who had at least one or two elite receivers at his disposal.

 

[BigRedRage]

When he, Jenkins, Sanders, and Gilmore went out in 2002, Plummer played like garbage.

Also, you cant have a $50million quarterback and $2.00 receivers. There isn't one elite QB who had at least one or two elite receivers at his disposal.

Jeff king to David Boston.

 

[Duckjake]

Can you give me ONE example of a quarterback who got significantly better after their team surrounded him with "more talented" receivers? A quarterback can make good receivers look awesome and average receivers look good (Phil Rivers, Drew Brees, and Brett Favre are all testament to this), but bad quarterbacks make good WRs look worse all the freaking time. Braylon Edwards didn't suck, the quarterbacks around him in Cleveland did.

With the exception of Anquan Boldin, it's rare that a wideout is going to shine if the quarterback delivering him the ball isn't at least average. Even Jake Plummer got better when he left here, despite arguably having less talent on the outside with the Broncos than he had here. Giving Blaine Gabbert Megatron, Fitz, and Andre Johnson aren't going to suddenly make him a good quarterback.

Tom Brady. NE gets him Welker and Moss in '07 and his QB rating jumps from 87.9 in '06 to 117.2 the highest in his career. From 24 TDs to 50. From 220 passing yards a game to 300.

Our QBs are average. At least as average as David Carr-Andre Johnson, Dan Orlosky/Shaun Hill-Calvin Johnson, Brad Johnson-Jake Reed, Griese/Ferrotte and Rod Smith, Aaron Brooks-Joe Horn. All had similar seasons to Fitz with Kolb/Skelator in 2011. Horn made 4 pro bowls with Brooks throwing to him. Surprised you would even say its rare when Fitz just had his career high in receiving yards in 2011.

If you are going to drop into the spread offense for the rest of the game the first time Wells runs for one yard you need better WRs. Especially when those better WRs are cheaper than the ones you have now so you can use the extra money to get better at other positions as well.

 

[Bodha]

Im not sure that is true.. Dockett has known PP for some time now well before he made it to the NFL.. How? Dockett and Bryant McFadden went to FSU together.. And McFadden is PP's cousin.. Im sure Dockett would have a little more hold over PP than DeSean, even if DeSean was to be a diva.. Which we havent determined to be true.. What if Fitz has an effect on DeSean in a positive way? Everyone just thinking about negatives around here. And BTW if you think PP has that weak of a mind he can be influenced this way, then it doesnt matter if we get DeSean or not because someone else will influence him somewhere, its just a matter of time.. If you want to play football and not mess things up, no one is gonna steer you away from it..

I dont believe PP is that meantally weak.. BTW

Whats Darnell have to do with anything?

DD is 30 years old. Hes not a kid out on the town anymore.

DJ would def have an effect on a young player with money. To a guy like PP, DJ is cool. Hes fun. Hes loud, flashy, knows how to have a good time. Always getting highlights on sportscenter. It has nothing to do with mental weakness. It has all to do with being young and wanting to have fun.

Who else can PP hang out with right now?

A non-talented AJ Jefferson? Family man Fitzgerald? Soon to be off the team Doucet? Our Oline? Our Dline? 33 year old Adrian Wilson?

There is nobody on this team close to PP's demographic. DJ is and would immediatley become his friend.

Remember back to the draft. Personality wise, who does DJ remind you of sometimes? Deion Sanders. From what I remember, those 2 became pretty close. Primetime was an insane talent but he was also a major diva.

 

[Duckjake]

Whats Darnell have to do with anything?

DD is 30 years old. Hes not a kid out on the town anymore.

DJ would def have an effect on a young player with money. To a guy like PP, DJ is cool. Hes fun. Hes loud, flashy, knows how to have a good time. Always getting highlights on sportscenter. It has nothing to do with mental weakness. It has all to do with being young and wanting to have fun.

Who else can PP hang out with right now?

A non-talented AJ Jefferson? Family man Fitzgerald? Soon to be off the team Doucet? Our Oline? Our Dline? 33 year old Adrian Wilson?

There is nobody on this team close to PP's demographic. DJ is and would immediatley become his friend.

Remember back to the draft. Personality wise, who does DJ remind you of sometimes? Deion Sanders. From what I remember, those 2 became pretty close. Primetime was an insane talent but he was also a major diva.

Calais Campbell,Daryl Washington, Sam Acho, O'Brien Schofield, Chris Wells, Andre Roberts? Campbell is dline but he's a human highlight reel every time an opponent sets up for a FG. If PP21 wants to be loud and have fun he should hang out with Lutui.

 

[WildBB]

Remember back to the draft. Personality wise, who does DJ remind you of sometimes? Deion Sanders. From what I remember, those 2 became pretty close. Primetime was an insane talent but he was also a major diva.

That pretty much explains him, imo.

 

[kerouac9]

Eli Manning has went from a game manager to an upper echelon QB with Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz this year, and Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham and Steve Smith the years before.

Better talent at WR made him a much better QB.

C'mon now. It's like you put this garbage out there not expecting me to check it out.

The Giants have had a top 10 offense the last 4 years. In 2008 it was with Amani Toomer, Plaxico Burress, Denis Hixon, and Kevin Boss. 2009 it was with The Other Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, and a rookie Hakeem Nicks.

New names, same centerpiece, same production. And, no there's nothing special about Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz. Neither brings anything to the table that Doucet and Roberts wouldn't bring when paired with the better passer.

These last four years Manning's completion percentage has been more or less the same: 61.5 =/-. His QB rating's been in the high 80s/low 90s. The only reason his yardage is going up is that passing yardage is increasing across the NFL. He's been an elite passer the past four years, when his supporting cast has more or less stayed the same.

Manningham brings so much more to the table than Early Doucet. LOL.

 

[kerouac9]

Tom Brady. NE gets him Welker and Moss in '07 and his QB rating jumps from 87.9 in '06 to 117.2 the highest in his career. From 24 TDs to 50. From 220 passing yards a game to 300.

Our QBs are average. At least as average as David Carr-Andre Johnson, Dan Orlosky/Shaun Hill-Calvin Johnson, Brad Johnson-Jake Reed, Griese/Ferrotte and Rod Smith, Aaron Brooks-Joe Horn. All had similar seasons to Fitz with Kolb/Skelator in 2011. Horn made 4 pro bowls with Brooks throwing to him. Surprised you would even say its rare when Fitz just had his career high in receiving yards in 2011.

If you are going to drop into the spread offense for the rest of the game the first time Wells runs for one yard you need better WRs. Especially when those better WRs are cheaper than the ones you have now so you can use the extra money to get better at other positions as well.

Hogwash. There are 20 quarterbacks if not more around the NFL that you'd rather have than Kolb and Skleton. Don't believe me?

Rivers
Flacco
Roethlisberger
Dalton
McCoy (you know it's true)
Brady
P. Manning
Schaub
Hasselback
E. Manning
Vick
Romo
Rodgers
Stafford
Cutler
Brees
Ryan
Newton
Freeman

If two thrids of the quarterbacks in the NFL are guys that you'd DEFINITELY rather have than the guys you've got, you're below average.

I'm not sure why you're naming a roster of loser QBs who never won anything. Yes, a below average QB can feed a single WR and get stats for him. But they can't win and they don't bring out the best in their weapons.

If you're going to go to the spread offense, then you need a better QB. One that doesn't bolt the pocket the first time he gets nudged and knocked out of the game the first time he gets hit, or a guy who can deliver the ball to the open man. I put a lot of that on the design of the offense. But we're not changing the design of the offense. The guys we have ARE RUNNING WIDE OPEN DOWN THE FIELD. It's not that they don't have talent. It's that the guy under center can't deliver them the ball.

Robert Meachem isn't going to get any more wide open than Early Doucet and Andre Roberts were last year. But Keohn Kolton still may not be able to get them the ball.

 

[Duckjake]

I'm not sure why you're naming a roster of loser QBs who never won anything. Yes, a below average QB can feed a single WR and get stats for him. But they can't win and they don't bring out the best in their weapons.

You want some syrup for that waffle.

With the exception of Anquan Boldin, it's rare that a wideout is going to shine if the quarterback delivering him the ball isn't at least average.

Like I said you just like to argue. If the majority claimed Doucet was a solid #2 worth $3-5million or whatever you'd claim he wasn't. I like it because if I keep this up long enough Early Doucet might make the pro bowl in 2012.

 

[Duckjake]

Flacco
Dalton
Hasselback
Vick
Romo
Cutler
Freeman

You can have those guys I'll take Double Duece. Of course I'd take McCoy because he's a homie. Don't know that he's any better or worse than D2 though.

That puts Skelton at 12-13 on your list. I'd say that's average enough.

 

[Bodha]

Calais Campbell,Daryl Washington, Sam Acho, O'Brien Schofield, Chris Wells, Andre Roberts? Campbell is dline but he's a human highlight reel every time an opponent sets up for a FG. If PP21 wants to be loud and have fun he should hang out with Lutui.

CC,DW,SA,OBS arent flashy. Whens the last time you saw any of them high steppin after a sack?

PP demographic = young and black?

Think of his personality. He was THE man at LSU. None of the guys you listed were ever equal to his status. His inner-Diva was born in college when the entire community made him a superstar.

 

[Duckjake]

CC,DW,SA,OBS arent flashy. Whens the last time you saw any of them high steppin after a sack?

PP demographic = young and black?

Think of his personality. He was THE man at LSU. None of the guys you listed were.

Of course. None of them went to LSU.

But they are all young and black.

 

[Buckybird]

Flacco
Dalton
Hasselback
Vick
Romo
Cutler
Freeman

You can have those guys I'll take Double Duece. Of course I'd take McCoy because he's a homie. Don't know that he's any better or worse than D2 though.

That puts Skelton at 12-13 on your list. I'd say that's average enough.

You like Skelton better? Come on Duck...sure your from Texas?

 

[TJ]

Jeff king to David Boston.

Jeff King is our current tight end.

Did you mean Jeff Blake or Shaun King, by chance? If so, neither played with David Boston.

 

[Duckjake]

You like Skelton better? Come on Duck...sure your from Texas?

D2 or 2D, I'll have to check with Rugby on the proper abbreviation, has the intangibles! AND He's from Texas.

 

[Gee!]

Whats Darnell have to do with anything?

DD is 30 years old. Hes not a kid out on the town anymore.

DJ would def have an effect on a young player with money. To a guy like PP, DJ is cool. Hes fun. Hes loud, flashy, knows how to have a good time. Always getting highlights on sportscenter. It has nothing to do with mental weakness. It has all to do with being young and wanting to have fun.

Who else can PP hang out with right now?

A non-talented AJ Jefferson? Family man Fitzgerald? Soon to be off the team Doucet? Our Oline? Our Dline? 33 year old Adrian Wilson?

There is nobody on this team close to PP's demographic. DJ is and would immediatley become his friend.

Remember back to the draft. Personality wise, who does DJ remind you of sometimes? Deion Sanders. From what I remember, those 2 became pretty close. Primetime was an insane talent but he was also a major diva.

So your saying, by this logic, that Ray Lewis has no influence over the younger players on the Ravens team? Which is absurd, because they have multiple stories about how he does.. We are talking about on the field here.. Not off the field..

 

[Bodha]

So your saying, by this logic, that Ray Lewis has no influence over the younger players on the Ravens team? Which is absurd, because they have multiple stories about how he does.. We are talking about on the field here.. Not off the field..

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[Gee!]

And why exactly would that be?

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[Chopper0080]

C'mon now. It's like you put this garbage out there not expecting me to check it out.

The Giants have had a top 10 offense the last 4 years. In 2008 it was with Amani Toomer, Plaxico Burress, Denis Hixon, and Kevin Boss. 2009 it was with The Other Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, and a rookie Hakeem Nicks.

New names, same centerpiece, same production. And, no there's nothing special about Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz. Neither brings anything to the table that Doucet and Roberts wouldn't bring when paired with the better passer.

These last four years Manning's completion percentage has been more or less the same: 61.5 =/-. His QB rating's been in the high 80s/low 90s. The only reason his yardage is going up is that passing yardage is increasing across the NFL. He's been an elite passer the past four years, when his supporting cast has more or less stayed the same.

Manningham brings so much more to the table than Early Doucet. LOL.

Really? Garbage? 4 years ago Eli was considered a top 12 NFL QB. Last year it was argued that he might have elevated his play into the top 5 Qbs in the NFL. Now people are debating whether or not he is better than his brother Peyton Manning. I find it hard to believe that it is not a coincidence that his wide receivers of Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz had nothing to do with this as I believe they were all added within the past 3 years.

And speaking of garbage, how you can compare an underachiever in Early Doucet to a standout like Victor Cruz is beyond me. I will concede that I would like to see if Victor Cruz can dupilcate his productivity next year, but he has become a player that needs to be game planned against while Early struggles to be successful opposite of one of the best wide receivers in the game.

No matter how you debate it, QBs need weapons to be successful. Brees needs Colston, Jimmy Graham, and Darren Sproles. Peyton needed Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, and Reggie Wayne to be successful. Brady needed Welker, Moss, Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez to be successful. Rodgers needed Greg Jennings, Jermichael Finely, Donald Driver and Jordy Nelson to be successful. It might be a "chicken and egg" quandry, but top QBs need top weapons and visa versa. There are a few notable exceptions like Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson, but these are the top players at their positions and exceptions, not rules.

As far as Doucet vs. Manningham, we will disagree. I view Manningham as a similar player to Steve Breaston, both whom I think are superior to Doucet. Now, we replaced Breaston with Doucet because we figured we could get similar production at half the price, and for the most part, the Cardinals were correct. I believe the same thing is true in regards to Doucet. If we want to replace Doucet's 2011 production, I think it is very easily done at half of what some have speculated his price will be (3 mil per season). I also believe that we have seen the ceiling of Doucet's production/skill and so if we are looking to upgrade, we need to look elsewhere.

 

[Duckjake]

Now, we replaced Breaston with Doucet because we figured we could get similar production at half the price, and for the most part, the Cardinals were correct. I believe the same thing is true in regards to Doucet. If we want to replace Doucet's 2011 production, I think it is very easily done at half of what some have speculated his price will be (3 mil per season). I also believe that we have seen the ceiling of Doucet's production/skill and so if we are looking to upgrade, we need to look elsewhere.

That sums up the situation very well. There are a lot of WRs who can get 50 receptions and 700 yards in the Cardinals offense. Who knows maybe a 5th or 6th round WR could turn into Cruz or Colston but its highly doubtful Doucet will. Breaston was a 5th. A 5th cost what? $350-400k a year?

That would free up a bunch of money to sign another guy like Bradley.

 

[kerouac9]

Really? Garbage? 4 years ago Eli was considered a top 12 NFL QB. Last year it was argued that he might have elevated his play into the top 5 Qbs in the NFL. Now people are debating whether or not he is better than his brother Peyton Manning. I find it hard to believe that it is not a coincidence that his wide receivers of Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz had nothing to do with this as I believe they were all added within the past 3 years.

I don't know what you're talking about. Eli was a Top 6 QB at the beginning of this season. Hakeem Nicks was seen as a very good player, but he's not an elite talent at the position. Eli was seen as an elite quarterback before the emergence of Victor Cruz.

People are deifying Eli in the press right now because it's a fun narrative to talk about in a week of no football news before the Super Bowl. No one who has half a brain thinks hat Eli's better than Peyton.

As I said, Eli Manning's raw statistics show that he's an elite level quarterback. He was a #1 overall draft pick for a reason. He's got a higher profile right now because he's playing in the Super Bowl, but six months from now regardless of what happens two Sundays from now he's going to be mentioned after Brees, Rodgers, Brady, and Roethlisberger. Just where he belongs. Any increase in his yardage numbers is because the rules have been relaxed. It's not like two QBs passed for 5000+ yards this year and a record number of QBs went over 4000, right?

And speaking of garbage, how you can compare an underachiever in Early Doucet to a standout like Victor Cruz is beyond me. I will concede that I would like to see if Victor Cruz can dupilcate his productivity next year, but he has become a player that needs to be game planned against while Early struggles to be successful opposite of one of the best wide receivers in the game.

I compare Victor Cruz more to Andre Roberts. Cruz is clearly further along, but he also has a better offensive line playing inside him and a better passer delivering the ball. Cruz and Doucet are VERY different players with regard to their abilities, but you know that already.

Teams game plan for Hakeem Nicks first, and then the running game, and then Victor Cruz. If you come in looking to stop Victor Cruz, you end up looking like the Atlanta Falcons in the Wild Card round.

No matter how you debate it, QBs need weapons to be successful. Brees needs Colston, Jimmy Graham, and Darren Sproles. Peyton needed Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, and Reggie Wayne to be successful. Brady needed Welker, Moss, Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez to be successful. Rodgers needed Greg Jennings, Jermichael Finely, Donald Driver and Jordy Nelson to be successful. It might be a "chicken and egg" quandry, but top QBs need top weapons and visa versa. There are a few notable exceptions like Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson, but these are the top players at their positions and exceptions, not rules.

Did you just start watching football this year? It's all right; you've really done a good job figuring out the game. But Drew Brees was pretty good before Jimmy Graham even came into the NFL, and when Darren Sproles was playing in San Diego. Even won a Super Bowl without 'em. Would you put Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, and Robert Meachem in the same breath as even Hakeem Nicks or Reggie Wayne '12? Of course not. Why? BECAUSE THE FREAKING QUARTERBACK MAKES THEM BETTER THAN THEY ARE. Lance Moore looks good playing on that track with Brees throwing to him. Those guys are average or slightly better on half of the other teams in the NFL.

How were Reggie Wayne and (espeically) Dallas Clark when Peyton wasn't throwing to them this year? Wayne had his lowest receiving total since his third year in the league, and only scored 4 TDs. Dallas Clark only caught 34 passes. Is this because they just decided to suck in contract years? Or is it because THE BEST QUARTERBACK IN HISTORY ISN'T THROWING THEM THE BALL? Are Pierre Garcon and Jacob Tamme really above-average NFL talents, or is the guy delivering them the ball an all-time great?

Pretty sure that Tom Brady was "successful" enough before Moss and Welker came. He might have won a Super Bowl or two without them. He certainly did a good job of winning 10-12 games a year before they showed up. Yes, when surrounded by elite talents like Gronkowski and Moss (Welker is a different character that I don't consider to be an elite talent), his statistical production increased, but the Pats were like 2-4 in the playoffs before those guys.

Rodgers won a Super Bowl without Jermichael Finley, and while Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson are really good, they're not as good as they look with Aaron Rodgers throwing them the ball. Replace Greg Jennings with Santonio Holmes and I bet the Buckeye puts up better numbers. Donald Driver? LOL.

As far as Doucet vs. Manningham, we will disagree. I view Manningham as a similar player to Steve Breaston, both whom I think are superior to Doucet. Now, we replaced Breaston with Doucet because we figured we could get similar production at half the price, and for the most part, the Cardinals were correct. I believe the same thing is true in regards to Doucet. If we want to replace Doucet's 2011 production, I think it is very easily done at half of what some have speculated his price will be (3 mil per season). I also believe that we have seen the ceiling of Doucet's production/skill and so if we are looking to upgrade, we need to look elsewhere.

But you're bringing in an inferior free agent to an unfamiliar system with a free agent. Doucet (and Breaston) did as well as they did because they'd been in the system for years, developing and finding roles. This isn't Madden; you don't just make a roster change and wait for natural ability to take over.

Neither of us have any idea what Doucet, Meachem, or Eddie Royal are going to make on the open market. You're right that Royal is going to make the veteran minimum plus a five-figure guarantee, but that's because he's proven to be awful and being a wide receiver. Doucet's best days remain ahead of him. How you can say that we've seen the best of Doucet when two of the worst quarterbacks in the league were throwing to him, both with less than a year of training in the offense, illustrates how little you understand about how player development and free agency movement--especially at a position where there are far more busts than successes in free agency.

Doucet is part of the solution for the Arizona Cardinals, not part of the problem. The problem with the Arizona Cardinals is a lack of production under center and a lack of protection on the edges.

 

[BigRedRage]

Jeff King is our current tight end.

Did you mean Jeff Blake or Shaun King, by chance? If so, neither played with David Boston.

Sorry. Jeff Blake and Shaun King

Boston had a huge year with some crappy QB from my memory, after plummer.

 

[BigRedRage]

maybe boston only had plummer

2003Jeff Blake (13) / Josh McCown (3)[84]2004Josh McCown (13) / Shaun King (2) / John Navarre (1)[85]