Do Suns have one of the least brightest present/future in the West?

[WildBB]

It'll be interesting to see if Atlanta can sustain their success.

Horford and Korver seem to make the biggest difference between the Suns and the Hawks right at this moment.

It also helps they play in the East.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Last year was Len's first year. When I looked it up yesterday, it looked like he played 3 games. He was out for the year basically due to injury. So I think you and I are talking past each other here.

I just double checked it. Len played 3 games his rookie year and averaged 8.6 minutes per game.
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2596107/alex-len

dude... we're not talking past each other... you're reading your link wrong. look again at your own link. Len played in 42 games and STARTED 3 games (that's what the GS column means) last year, averaging 8 minutes per game. Same as Gobert. They're at the exact same point of development.

 

[Mainstreet]

I like the following links:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lenal01.html

I think the confusion rests with games started versus games played.

Len is a year younger.

 

[Catlover]

I like the following links:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lenal01.html

I think the confusion rests with games started versus games played.

Len is a year younger.

And Gobert has been playing organized basketball for 4 or 5 years longer than Len. Still, unless health is removed from the equation, I'd rather have Gobert. Len shows more all around skills but you can only show so much from the training room.

 

[slinslin]

No..

Minnesota, Utah are better but Sacramento, Denver are not looking too hot either and the Lakers are a totally dependant on hitting jackpot in this draft.

Also Portland, Dallas, Memphis, San Antonio imo do not look so great and will have to do some serious re-tooling soon.

New Orleans does not look great either. Yeah they have Anthony Davis but beyond that they have little and will have trouble getting 2nd tier stars.

The playoff teams for years to come are the Warriors, Clippers and Rockets.

 

[Absolute Zero]

dude... we're not talking past each other... you're reading your link wrong. look again at your own link. Len played in 42 games and STARTED 3 games (that's what the GS column means) last year, averaging 8 minutes per game. Same as Gobert. They're at the exact same point of development.

My bad, I misread it

 

[Mainstreet]

And Gobert has been playing organized basketball for 4 or 5 years longer than Len. Still, unless health is removed from the equation, I'd rather have Gobert. Len shows more all around skills but you can only show so much from the training room.

I think if Len stays healthy he can be the better player because he has the better overall game and seems to have the frame to add more weight and muscle. However, I agree, it does not mean much if he is not healthy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And Gobert has been playing organized basketball for 4 or 5 years longer than Len. Still, unless health is removed from the equation, I'd rather have Gobert. Len shows more all around skills but you can only show so much from the training room.

i'm curious how you think he shows more all around skills. I mean, are you talking offensively, because Gobert's already better then him there. And Len hasn't shown nearly the defensive skills Gobert has.

 

[slinslin]

Gobert is better right now but you are making it sound like it is no comparison at all.

Len shows more flashes of brilliant moves offensively, Gobert is more of a garbage scorer only. Len has to be more consistent and demand touches and get healthy.

 

[Catlover]

i'm curious how you think he shows more all around skills. I mean, are you talking offensively, because Gobert's already better then him there. And Len hasn't shown nearly the defensive skills Gobert has.

If you look at the stats Gobert appears to be the better scorer but if you've watched them both play a lot and still feel this way, we're probably too far apart to find a middle ground. Gobert has better numbers offensively but he looks like a fish in the desert out there. Len can't buy an outside hoop but he has good form and nice touch, he'll be a very effective scorer if he ever gets to practice and play regularly. Keep in mind that Alex has been in and out of the lineup and has rarely practiced so you're seeing a lack of experience in addition to a player that is rusty and often out of shape. IMO his ceiling is far higher than Gobert's if they both stay healthy. But no way would I gamble on him staying healthy, I'd take Gobert over him without hesitation.

 

[WildBB]

Gobert is better right now but you are making it sound like it is no comparison at all.

Len shows more flashes of brilliant moves offensively, Gobert is more of a garbage scorer only. Len has to be more consistent and demand touches and get healthy.

Hate to say it, but is that ever going to be the case with him??

I think he may be suited to be a premium back or splitting minutes long term. He's not a 35+ mnts. guy, he gets banged up easily. Maybe it can change for a while, but I wouldn't count on it being the norm with him.

I think they need someone legitimate there besides him, and not Markieff either. He should play PF.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just finished watching a one hour, 45 minute question and answer session with Paul Coro. Some Good stuff. Below is the link.

Coro sees Green as likely not to return and Granger being a veteran presence next season.

In regard to Alex Len, here is what Paul Coro says and I like it.

They do think he still has upside because he barely has been on the court and he is absolutely dedicated to getting better. They wish they could have 15 guys with his mindset. Despite the injuries, he is tough. He works hard. He's willing to stay here in the offseason. He made a difference when he moved into the starting lineup in mid-December. He was the Suns' best rebounder, although that wasn't saying much, and a better shot-blocker than expected, given that he's not a leaper. He is going to work on a post game. So far, he has stuck to what he was asked to do with popping into open space around the FT line (the shot looked good but wasn't efficent) and finishing around the basket. He will continue to bulk up. He is fearless on the court. The big thing will be whether he can be durable and available. So far, it's been more bad luck than bad bones.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/04/20/phoenix-suns-chat-with-paul-coro/26070697/

 

[mojorizen7]

the Lakers are totally dependent on hitting jackpot in this draft.

Which they will because we're talking about the NBA lottery and teams like the Lakers and Knicks picking at the top for the rights to draft a couple difference making rookie bigmen while the Suns draft JAG because they refuse to bottom out even when the stars aligned for them to do JUST THAT. Shocker.

I'm not sure which is a bigger traveshamockery....the NBA lottery itself, or the Suns long term draft strategy.

 

[Raindog]

The biggest problem for the Suns is that they ARE consistently stuck in the middle - neither good enough to be relevant, nor terrible enough to have a shot at any difference makers in the draft. It is interesting to note that the one player on the team with any kind of notable ceiling is Len, who we only managed to draft after having our worst season in 30 years.

You simply cannot win today's NBA by straddling the center line of mediocrity. Good FAs have no desire to sign with a run of the mill organization, and you are too far out of the mix on game changing draft picks. The Suns apparently refuse to accept that and are satisfied with perpetual mediocrity... they might as well be playing in Siberia.

 

[Mainstreet]

The biggest problem for the Suns is that they ARE consistently stuck in the middle - neither good enough to be relevant, nor terrible enough to have a shot at any difference makers in the draft. It is interesting to note that the one player on the team with any kind of notable ceiling is Len, who we only managed to draft after having our worst season in 30 years.

You simply cannot win today's NBA by straddling the center line of mediocrity. Good FAs have no desire to sign with a run of the mill organization, and you are too far out of the mix on game changing draft picks. The Suns apparently refuse to accept that and are satisfied with perpetual mediocrity... they might as well be playing in Siberia.

This is true in regard to the low hanging fruit in the draft. No argument, most of the best players are drafted early. However, the Suns used to make up for it with top scouts like Dick Percudani. Jerry Colangelo built one of the most winning NBA franchises drafting later and free agency. Top talent can still be found in the middle and end of the first round. There are also a lot of players found in the second round. One of these days I want to build a fantasy team made out of second round picks.

 

[SirStefan32]

This is true in regard to the low hanging fruit in the draft. No argument, most of the best players are drafted early. However, the Suns used to make up for it with top scouts like Dick Percudani. Jerry Colangelo built one of the most winning NBA franchises drafting later and free agency. Top talent can still be found in the middle and end of the first round. There are also a lot of players found in the second round. One of these days I want to build a fantasy team made out of second round picks.

McD is supposed to be great at evaluating talent. I think he's done well in the draft (Len, Goodwin, Warren, Bogdanovich) but I am less than impressed with his combo guard obsession. They need a star and there won't be one in the middle of the draft.

 

[sunsfan88]

This is true in regard to the low hanging fruit in the draft. No argument, most of the best players are drafted early. However, the Suns used to make up for it with top scouts like Dick Percudani. Jerry Colangelo built one of the most winning NBA franchises drafting later and free agency. Top talent can still be found in the middle and end of the first round. There are also a lot of players found in the second round. One of these days I want to build a fantasy team made out of second round picks.

Sure but most top players are top picks.

If you look at the top players in the league, all of them are top 10, most of them are even top 5.

Davis, Curry, LeBron, Durant, CP3, Griffin, Harden, Melo, Cousins, Wade, LMA, Horford, Bosh, Irving, Lillard, Westbrook, Thompson, Duncan, George etc were all top 10 picks.

Of course then there's guys like Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard, Marc Gasol and even rising stars like Khris Middleton and Rudy Gobert who weren't top 10 picks but the odds are against you to find someone star worthy out of that top 10 selection.

 

[Errntknght]

McD is supposed to be great at evaluating talent. I think he's done well in the draft (Len, Goodwin, Warren, Bogdanovich) but I am less than impressed with his combo guard obsession. They need a star and there won't be one in the middle of the draft.

I don't think McD is actually obsessed with combo guards but he wants two guards that both can run the break, so SG's that don't have that capability are far down his wish list. Bled and Knight fill that requirement fairly well but neither one is particularly good at running our half court offense, unless Knight surprises us with so-far hidden talent. IMO, the problem is Hornacek - he's created an offense that Nash or Stockton would have done well with because they were marvels of creativity but it stutters badly in less capable hands.

Most of us have seen a similar blunder before with D'Antoni - his offense was designed for Nash and while it was a thing of beauty in his hands, every backup PG made hash of it (he tried at least seven). More accurately the system made the backups completely inept - Barbosa had a mental/emotional breakdown from trying to run it. (And Banks brought D'Antoni to the brink of one - for which I will always like him.)

Its probably not a coincidence that both Horny and D'A were PGs. Somehow they just cannot grasp that their offenses are grotesque mismatches for the guys they are asking to run it. (Past tense for D'A.)

What could save us would be a PG falling in our laps who is so good you wouldn't dream of trying to shoehorn him into a dual PG scheme. And if he wanted to do it, he'd probably make it work. Short of that I think Hornacek has to go. It will probably take a long time as McD seems to be happy with what Jeff is doing.

 

[jandaman]

Gobert and Len should be among the league leaders in block shots in the near future, assuming Len continues to improve and gets 30-34 minutes a game... which Gobert did after all-star break.

Gobert right now is a lot better defender and rebounder, Len looks better offensively... mainly due to his soft touch and aggressive nature.

But Gobert is a machine... Im not even sure why anyone would think Len is on the same level.... maybe next year. Gobert is older and has had a proper "rookie" year without injury disruptions so he has had a better development... the 30+ minutes a game helps a lot too.

 

[SweetD]

Watching the playoffs and hearing about the young players on other teams with so much potential made me think...do we have one of the least brightest future/present out of every team in the NBA?

First off, here are all the teams who are obviously better than Phoenix in the present:

- Spurs- Kawhi Leonard is a Finals MVP and an up and coming superstar. Oh and he's barely 23 and already the best defender in the NBA by far. Plus old big 3 still getting it done.

- Clippers- CP3's getting older but still 30 and Blake is only 26. Both are far better players than anyone on Suns.

- Grizzlies - This is pretty easy. Gasol/Conley. end of story.

- Warriors - Obvious. Steph Curry > Suns roster

- Rockets - Again obvious. James Harden > Suns roster

- Mavericks - Dirk is still a beast and Rick Carslie continues to be the magician he is. Monta Ellis seems to have revived his career in Dallas and despite being in the NBA for what seems like a while, he's only 29.

- Pelicans - Back in 2010, I never would have thought that New Orleans would become good before Phoenix would. Amazing how things have changed. Obvious one again, Davis > Suns.

Now out of all the non playoff teams, lets look at teams which imo have brighter futures:

- Utah - Gobert alone is a better prospect than Suns have and Hood and Favors are both very promising as well. They also have the 5th overall pick Exum who has showed signs of greatness defensively and has ton of potential offensively obviously.

- Minnesota - Wiggins alone gives them the leg up. Kid is gonna be a superstar and nobody's gonna stop him. I was one of those who thought he was all hype in high school and college but he's made me eat my words. LaVine and Mohammad are also looking very promising and if Minnesota blows it up and gets assets for Rubio/Pekovic, their in even better shape for the future.

- Thunder - Obvious.

- Lakers - Randle + cap space + top 5 prospect from the draft this season. Plus to FAs, they have the appeal of being Los Angeles and Kobe's contract expiring/retiring in a year. 22 year old Clarkson also looks promising.

- Kings - There's a lot of dysfunction in the FO and ownership. Things seems to have gotten better since the hiring of Karl but regardless, 24 year old Cousins is still the best C in the NBA and is lot better than anyone on the Suns. They also have a nice top 8-10 pick in this draft.

That leaves Phoenix, and Denver. Nuggets are super high on 20 year old Nurkic and believe him to the next big thing but I'm not sure he's much better than Len.

Its amazing, if you asked me after last season which team has most promising future among non playoff teams in the entire NBA, I would have said Phoenix easily. And now looking at these other rosters, and how our season's gone, its saddening. Eric Bledsoe is probably's our best player and he doesn't seem to have anywhere near the ceiling that the guys on this list has and unlikely to improve all that much from where he is now. Knight is such a wildcard, even when he did good in Milwaukee most of their fans were beyond stoked to see him traded. His time in Phoenix was filed with injuries and didn't look that great when healthy. Len is probably my most favorite player on the Suns (that's more telling of the Suns roster than Len himself but I do like Len) but he seems to have a hard time staying healthy whether its ankle or nose or finder or whatever body part of his. Warren and Goodwin are the only other guys that we can be hopeful about.

We have a Cavs 1st round pick which won't be worth anything at all and then we have the Heat 2017 pick which is iirc top 7 or top 8 protected and chances are Miami will still make the playoffs then since they play in the East assuming Bosh, Dragic and Whiteside stay healthy. That 2021 unprotected pick might have great value but its 5 years down the stretch and won't have that good of value until we get lot closer to 2021.

In the meantime we continue to stay mediocre by missing playoffs and landing the #13 or #14 pick for the 5th time in the last 7 years.

You mention all these teams, except for GS, Thunder and maybe Houstan it all about one player. If the Suns can find that one then I don't see with the current talent on the team they could not be a force in the league. Maybe 3-5 years out but I don't see how we are at the bottom.

 

[elindholm]

If the Suns can find that one then I don't see with the current talent on the team they could not be a force in the league. Maybe 3-5 years out but I don't see how we are at the bottom.

But isn't that true for everyone? It's like a poor person saying, "If I win the lottery, I won't be poor, so therefore I'm not poor now."

 

[mojorizen7]

But isn't that true for everyone? It's like a poor person saying, "If I win the lottery, I won't be poor, so therefore I'm not poor now."

Yes it is, and you can't win if you don't play.

Of course, picking 12th, 13th 14th and/or just missing/making the playoffs doesn't really count as playing the lottery. Everyone knows the best players and the centerpiece-type guys are taken in the top 5.

The Suns' last run was in 2010. They've had a few opportunities to bottom out and truly rebuild. Five years later and they're still running in place with an unbalanced roster full of unhappy players who have no chemistry. Assets are acquired and squandered.

Who are they building this team around anyway? Len? Bledsoe? Knight? Warren?
This was the year to do a faceplant in the standings. Same could be said for 2011 and 2012. Oh well...

 

[WildBB]

Who are they building this team around anyway? Len? Bledsoe? Knight? Warren?
This was the year to do a faceplant in the standings. Same could be said for 2011 and 2012. Oh well...

I think those are the pieces along with Markieff. They need to get Lucky in FA or just trade a few of the aforementioned group for a star Center playing out his deal on a sign and trade. Any one doubt that the GM wouldn't pull that trigger?

But to me Atlanta is the other blue print. You need some deadly outside shooters with an all out tougher D. Playing unselfishly.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think before we can declare the Suns the "brightest" we have to have that one future young superstar, we have to be able to recruit FA or we have to pull off some huge trades. Until then...I feel like we are trying to build a solid young foundation that will be complimentary to a much bigger move.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think those are the pieces along with Markieff. They need to get Lucky in FA or just trade a few of the aforementioned group for a star Center playing out his deal on a sign and trade. Any one doubt that the GM wouldn't pull that trigger?

But to me Atlanta is the other blue print. You need some deadly outside shooters with an all out tougher D. Playing unselfishly.

You have to have players and coaches who want to play unselfish basketball revolved around ball movement. We already know we don't have the coaches for it, how many players do we have that are actually unselfish?