Do Suns have one of the least brightest present/future in the West?

Errntknght

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- Is the 2 starting point guards theory a bust?

I think its germane to point out that we didn't try a 2 PG system, it was 2 combo guards. The system Jeff based it on was himself with KJ and with Stockton and those weren't 2 PGs sets either - one excellent PG and one combo guard. Neither took the world by storm, in case you were wondering.

The stated reason for playing Bledsoe and Dragic was that Jeff wanted the team to fastbreak and with them both on the floor there'd be two outlet targets. They both liked to push the ball so they matched his plans in that regard. IMO, it was not much of a success because they were on the floor with a very poor rebounding front court. I have to assume McD & Jeff don't share that opinion because improving the teams rebounding was not made a priority. Tolliver was a particularly poor choice and his history proclaimed that would be so. Wright was an improvement in general but didn't add rebounding.

Adding Tyson Chandler will help the rebounding but we still didn't get a PF who is a strong rebounder. Then there is the question of Brandon Knight - will he push the ball enough? The same question is valid about Ronnie Price.

The thing I question is whether the value of having two outlets for fastbreaks worth the ugly rotation it forces among the guards? The best fastbreaking teams of all time (Auerbach's Celtics and the Showtime Lakers) didn't do anything along that line but they had strong rebounding. There were also very talented teams, of course, so they'd have been in title hunt without the fastbreak. Presumeably, they thought it gave them an edge, and who's to argue with their results.
 

Chaz

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- How little do they know about the importance of team chemistry, as evidenced by the recruitment of a 3rd starting-calibre point guard, Thomas, that appeared to kill it.
Thomas saw himself as a starter but i don't think the Suns did.
- In view of the above, did we manage to alienate and subsequently trade our best asset in Dragic?
I don't think the Suns were ever that sold on Dragic. Not enough to give him the contract he got from Miami anyway.
- If Dragic was our best asset, should they have given more consideration to retaining Frye who, when on the floor, made Dragic's advanced stats soar, or at least bring in a better floor spacer than Tolliver?
They are still looking for a replacement for Frye but but I don't blame them for not paying him as much as Orlando did.
- Are we going to regret the Lakers pick offload?
Maybe and maybe not. Suns liked the potential of Knight more than the potential of the Lakers pick it seems.
- Surely Thomas was worth more than a late first founder?
They got him for basically nothing so it was a net plus.
- Did we have to trade the high PER / low salary Thomas in the first place?
I think it was chemistry issues but who knows.
- Is the 2 starting point guards theory a bust?
Not yet. They seem to think it worked pretty well with Bledsoe/Dragic.
Anything can work with the right personnel. I guess we will see if Bledsoe/Knight can work together.
 

JS22

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After a few, I guess, questionable moves I like how the Suns have rounded out. Seems like they're the prefect mix of vets, young guys with potential, and players with specific roles. And they've got Bogdanovic + a few extra draft picks in the future. This roster is balanced really, really well. Something that they haven't been able to do until this offseason.

Some people simply won't be happy until the Suns are nothing but a team of 19 year olds losing 60+ games a year.
 

Covert Rain

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Some people simply won't be happy until the Suns are nothing but a team of 19 year olds losing 60+ games a year.

What does that mean exactly? That would require the team constantly staying with 19 year olds and purging the roster every single year. I don't think anybody has said that.

At least for myself, I think the team has a history of being shortsighted and almost a pathological desire to avoid bottoming out for the sake of being competitive. I don't want the team to lose 60+ games a year for an extended period of time either. However, this team shouldn't be so paranoid about bottoming out. You can't get the next Duncan or whomever constantly drafting in the teens.

Having said that, I like the Chandler signing and IF the team can be successful pulling off trades and signing FA to get us a title....I am good with that approach as well.
 
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JS22

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I was exaggerating a little just to make a point, really. A lot of people prefer the Philly route of throwing a bunch of high draft picks together, hoping it works out, and losing every season. Seems like the perfect way to build a losing culture. I also don't like teams that hang on too long just for the 7-8 seed. (The end of the Nash run.)

The Suns are doing it right IMO. A good mix of young guys, vets, and players with specific roles. They may be fighting for the 8 seed but that's fine. They've got some young players with potential and have extra 1st rounders in the future. Not full-on tank mode. But also not a bunch of 35 year old guys past their prime.

It just seems like some people complain when PHX brings in a guy like Chandler because it's "going to take minutes from Len." When did competition become a bad thing? If Len outplays Chandler he'll get his minutes. Even if he doesn't, he should be able to learn some things while still getting plenty of minutes off the bench.

And Chandler is the perfect guy for a young locker-room. Look at last years Suns team. That team was a chemistry disaster with the Wonder Twins running the show. Chandler can keep Morris in line. Too many people seem to overlook stuff like this IMO.
 
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sunsfan88

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I don't know if there's anyone that doesn't like the Chandler signing especially for this immature locker room.
 

devilalum

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After a few, I guess, questionable moves I like how the Suns have rounded out. Seems like they're the prefect mix of vets, young guys with potential, and players with specific roles. And they've got Bogdanovic + a few extra draft picks in the future. This roster is balanced really, really well. Something that they haven't been able to do until this offseason.

Some people simply won't be happy until the Suns are nothing but a team of 19 year olds losing 60+ games a year.
So they can draft Joel Embiid.
 

FutureSuperstar

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I usually try to stay away from threads like these because the arguments/debates just tend to go in circles. But the bottom line in my opinion is that the Suns are too good to be "bad". What I mean is imagine this scenario:

- Chandler is not signed
- Tucker / Markieff are traded for multiple 1st rounders
- Bledsoe is traded for say, the 7th pick in the draft
- The Knight trade never happened and we keep the Lakers pick

So, basically we'd have a team of Len, Warren, Goodwin, Booker, another lottery pick, and a bunch of other scrubs ... + several future 1sts

Now, from this point for THIS SEASON, there's 2 scenarios (obviously could be in middle, but you get the point)

1. We surprise, the young guys break out, show a ton of potential - Warren/Len look like studs and we win 30 - 40 games
2. We are really bad, young guys show potential, but we still just win 20 games

Now, in the 1st scenario - Warren/Len becoming studs - Imagine if we still had Bledsoe/Kief/Knight/Chandler !!! We would be on our way to being a contender and the "tank" would have failed miserably ... From this point, we would be searching for guys like that to "take the next step" (after just trading "guys like that" from the team) ... We would be the laughing stock of the league

In the 2nd scenario, we would just be bad ... sure we would have future 1st's and a high draft pick coming, but then w/ the current young guys not "blowing up" into studs, there would be a heavy reliance on the next lottery pick to be a superstar ... It would basically be back to square 1

Note that "square 1" is the easiest pt. to get to - There's no pt. in rushing to "square 1" (Being a terrible team) when there's still a chance of the 1st scenario (The current young guys still blowing up) ... In 2-3 years if Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bledsoe, and this whole crew has maxed out their potential and it's obvious it's not enough, then maybe they'd consider going back to "square 1" and being terrible for 3 years. The point is, why not wait? The Suns have enough young guys w/ potential to wait at least a few more years.

Because guess what - and man, this post is getting longer than I intended - Even in scenario 2 where we draft another Top 5 pick ... 2 years from that point there's a high probability we would right back where we are TODAY w/ a few young guys w/ potential , but no sure-fire superstar ... Then what do you do? Tank again?

The bottom line is that the people who want to "tank" don't realize that this could happen:

15/16 - 20 wins
16/17 - 25 wins
17/18 - 40 wins (right back where we are w/ young guys and no superstar) ... So I guess we tank again right? Instead of seeing this group improve?
18/19 - 20 wins
19-20 - 30 wins
20/21 - 45 wins ... And still no superstar, so tank begins again

The point is, let's just see what this group has. Unnecessary "Rebuilding" is stupid and could just lead into a cycle of "never being good enough" and always being bad hoping for a superstar.
 

JS22

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I don't know if there's anyone that doesn't like the Chandler signing especially for this immature locker room.

There's definitely some people that didn't like the signing. I don't love it because Chandler is going to be pretty old during those final few years. But I don't hate it either because this team really needed a presence like Chandler. Hopefully the Suns voodoo magic training staff can keep him healthy and productive. I'm not worried about the next 2, maybe even 3 seasons though.
 
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sunsfan88

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There's definitely some people that didn't like the signing. I don't love it because Chandler is going to be pretty old during those final few years. But I don't hate it either because this team really needed a presence like Chandler. Hopefully the Suns voodoo magic training staff can keep him healthy and productive. I'm not worried about the next 2, maybe even 3 seasons though.

At first I hesitated about the signing because like you said, it takes minutes away from Len but after thinking about it more, Len probably cant handle starter minutes with his durability anyway plus Chandler can teach him a thing or two. Plus Kieff needs a father type figure on this team to keep him in check and Chandler is perfect for that.
 

chickenhead

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Agree - the Chandler signing in a vacuum is a lot different than his potential to protect the team's investment in Len.
 

JCSunsfan

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Agree - the Chandler signing in a vacuum is a lot different than his potential to protect the team's investment in Len.

Plus, Len has to earn the minutes he gets. He is going to have to improve to get them.
 

Dr. Jones

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To answer the original posters question...... Nope. Not even close.
 

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Mainstreet

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I'm bringing this over from the Cardinals forum.

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I'm thinking this should be the Suns' attitude this coming season.
 
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sunsfan88

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Terrible signing that I hated.

I certainly didn't hate it and I kinda liked it (maybe not as much as some others) but boy was I wrong. Rick Carslie deserves some sort of an award for making Chandler look so good in every stint with the Mavs.
 

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