Do you think Arians was more at fault for the last few drafts than Keim?

[Stout]

You are talking to @Chris_Sanders the poster, not the moderator.

On a real level, you can't separate the two. Acting like a douche as a poster will hurt your ability to be seen as a fair moderator. It's already been an issue on here.

Have I moderated your opinion in any way?

What does me being a moderator have to do with my opinion on Josh Rosen?

Yes, you have. You scream from the hilltops that it's a FACT that Rosen sucks, and anyone who can't acknowledge that is an idiot, then you go on to rail about it everywhere, all the time. Well, I think it's delusional (yours is the only truth! lol), and I think your posts recently on this thread have been childish.

Now, go ahead and tell me I don't risk a banning because you're a frigging moderator and I'm taking a strong stance against your posts. It's happened to others.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

On a real level, you can't separate the two. Acting like a douche as a poster will hurt your ability to be seen as a fair moderator. It's already been an issue on here.

Moderators are allowed to have their own opinions here. I am not some paid representative of the board. I am really only here to break up fights that go to far, get rid of spammers. Edit thread titles as requested. Ect...

It's not particularly fun, especially when literally anytime someone disagrees with your opinion they make it about me the person as a moderator and not the opinion.

I welcome you to disagree with my opinion. Heck I have been called a "Murray Nuthugger" on multiple threads and haven't edited, moderated, warned someone...anything.

Yes, you have. You scream from the hilltops that it's a FACT that Rosen sucks, and anyone who can't acknowledge that is an idiot, then you go on to rail about it everywhere, all the time. Well, I think it's delusional (yours is the only truth! lol), and I think your posts recently on this thread have been childish.

Okay that isn't moderating you. Moderating you would be deleting your posts, editing your posts, or banning you.

The only "power" I am wielding in these discussions is opinions backed by data. You have the exact same power that I do here. Defend Rosen all you want. Find things that back up your opinion and post them. Or don't find any data / facts and post purely on emotion and gut. It's whatever you want within the posted rules of the board.

I welcome discussion and viewpoints on this message board. I welcome you to disagree with me, agree with me, whatever you like.

Now, go ahead and tell me I don't risk a banning because you're a frigging moderator and I'm taking a strong stance against your posts. It's happened to others.

Okay...you don't risk a banning for taking a strong stance against my posts.

 

[Solar7]

As a mod on another major board system, for whatever that's worth, I'm with Stout that it's pretty impossible to split the poster from the mod. I don't think anyone on ASFN is particularly ban happy, and you're all good mods, so it doesn't matter, but it can tend to get personal.

One of the issues is, we just don't have objective truth in football. When you tell me the stats are "just the facts" in regards to Rosen, I look back at his play and the eye test tells me a lot different. Does it tell me he was good? Obviously not, but that everything around him can and did go wrong. It just breeds frustration when getting lambasted for being negative despite legitimate concerns.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

As a mod on another major board system, for whatever that's worth, I'm with Stout that it's pretty impossible to split the poster from the mod. I don't think anyone on ASFN is particularly ban happy, and you're all good mods, so it doesn't matter, but it can tend to get personal.

This board has been consistent since it's foundation. Moderators can post their opinions here and are subject to the same rules as everyone else. If that changed, then I would probably just stop being a moderator. That's why I am not just throwing up my hands and saying "Fine I just won't post about Rosen anymore" because there is no end to that in a forum where people disagree.

I am really tired of people debating me and not my opinions. That is the core of this board is debate the topic not the poster.

One of the issues is, we just don't have objective truth in football. When you tell me the stats are "just the facts" in regards to Rosen, I look back at his play and the eye test tells me a lot different. Does it tell me he was good? Obviously not, but that everything around him can and did go wrong.

That is perfect response to my opinion. I even agree with it some.

It just breeds frustration when getting lambasted for being negative despite legitimate concerns.

This isn't me though and it isn't fair to lump me in the same group as everyone else when I have actually agreed with some of your concerns.

 

[Solar7]

This board has been consistent since it's foundation. Moderators can post their opinions here and are subject to the same rules as everyone else. If that changed, then I would probably just stop being a moderator. That's why I am not just throwing up my hands and saying "Fine I just won't post about Rosen anymore" because there is no end to that in a forum where people disagree.

I am really tired of people debating me and not my opinions. That is the core of this board is debate the topic not the poster.




That is perfect response to my opinion. I even agree with it some.



This isn't me though and it isn't fair to lump me in the same group as everyone else when I have actually agreed with some of your concerns.

Well, one way or another, I hope you know I have no beef with you! I like you a lot. For whatever it's worth.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Well, one way or another, I hope you know I have no beef with you! I like you a lot. For whatever it's worth.

I feel the same way

 

[MadCardDisease]

Arians was the right hire at the time. He is a good coach with a Veteran team. I think the whole QB whisper thing is over blown.

Problem was Arians team got old fast (Oldest NFL roster in 2017) and the young players that BASK brought in to replace them were busts for the most part. I think that Keim and Arians were both to blame for those bad drafts.

 

[AZCB34]

I will never let Keim off the hook for his failures on and off the field. Many of his drafts have fubar

 

[Stout]

Well, one way or another, I hope you know I have no beef with you! I like you a lot. For whatever it's worth.

I'm right there with you!

Chris, your hatred of Rosen is just grating on me, and between all the Rosen hate and KM is God vomit-inducing slobber fest, I'm getting fed up with the opinions around here. Otherwise, I've always enjoyed you as a poster. You went pretty hard at it lately, so my sick-and-tiredness landed on you. I still have concerns that real arguments with mods on opinions can lead to a "you're out of bounds, buddy" banning, but hey...we're all Cards fans here, so all good.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I'm right there with you!

Chris, your hatred of Rosen is just grating on me, and between all the Rosen hate and KM is God vomit-inducing slobber fest, I'm getting fed up with the opinions around here. Otherwise, I've always enjoyed you as a poster. You went pretty hard at it lately, so my sick-and-tiredness landed on you. I still have concerns that real arguments with mods on opinions can lead to a "you're out of bounds, buddy" banning, but hey...we're all Cards fans here, so all good.

Okay well I am going to take a "No Rosen stance" until the regular season starts.

I do think it will be fun to track Rosen's rookie year and next year versus Murray's.

I will hold Murray to the same standard I held Rosen too. Besides, it will be fun if I am wrong about Rosen. It meant I should have trusted my eyes not the stats.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I will never let Keim off the hook for his failures on and off the field. Many of his drafts have fubar

It's definitely Keim's fault; as General Manager, he is responsible for ALL actions that happen with the football team. Scouting, coaching, the cafeterias food quality. Everything.

When he took over, the Cardinals some how won 10 games in his first year. IMO that was a mirage; the team was winning with a lot of older players, and needed a youth infusion. Instead, they doubled down on vets and guys they thought could be fits (Niklas) instead of drafting guys that were value picks.

The team was successful for three years, but age and the law of averages caught up to them.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Again, I have to agree with Stout. The Mitch comparison is apt. Every thread is basically stating everything as fact, and if anyone dares question it, you're either a troll or just not letting people be optimistic.

So frustrating to hear that Kyler is this can't-miss, perfect generational QB in every single thread, when six months ago, the talk was that he might be drafted in the third round.

Imo, it's like this, obviously, there's fans on this board that have high hopes for KM, me included. Then there's the ones that are very skeptical, but still have high hopes, we as Cardinals fans should all have high hopes & if not, then we're not Cardinals fans at all? We should all have optimism but be just a tad skeptical at the same time, if there's not just the least little bit of skepticism then we're setting ourselves up for an even worse let down if he doesn't live up to the hype? There's no doubt this kid has talent & knows the system well, there's no denying that, how that will translate to the NFL & how the teams adjust to it is the burning question? I'm not gonna compare him to any other QB until he proves his worth on the field, but I get some of what PACARDS fan is saying. He has speed better than MV & is more elusive than RW & can throw the ball while scrambling with accuracy, all this was shown in college though & that's all we can go off of right now. I can't stand the "Shehawks" or RW for obvious reasons but he is a SB winning QB. Time will tell on KM. Go Cards.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I will never let Keim off the hook for his failures on and off the field. Many of his drafts have fubar

But did you not like this yrs draft? If not why? I thought he killed it, possibly the best draft of all the team's this yr? Worst case scenario, top 5. That's my opinion obviously.

 

[AZCB34]

But did you not like this yrs draft? If not why? I thought he killed it, possibly the best draft of all the team's this yr? Worst case scenario, top 5. That's my opinion obviously.

He had a good draft but we won't really know for a few years. Until these guys prove themselves, this draft is not relevant to his failures on and off the field in previous years.

 

[Solar7]

Imo, it's like this, obviously, there's fans on this board that have high hopes for KM, me included. Then there's the ones that are very skeptical, but still have high hopes, we as Cardinals fans should all have high hopes & if not, then we're not Cardinals fans at all? We should all have optimism but be just a tad skeptical at the same time, if there's not just the least little bit of skepticism then we're setting ourselves up for an even worse let down if he doesn't live up to the hype? There's no doubt this kid has talent & knows the system well, there's no denying that, how that will translate to the NFL & how the teams adjust to it is the burning question? I'm not gonna compare him to any other QB until he proves his worth on the field, but I get some of what PACARDS fan is saying. He has speed better than MV & is more elusive than RW & can throw the ball while scrambling with accuracy, all this was shown in college though & that's all we can go off of right now. I can't stand the "Shehawks" or RW for obvious reasons but he is a SB winning QB. Time will tell on KM. Go Cards.

Go Cards, of course, but I feel like a jilted lover that is trying to be won back.

Since 2004 or so, it felt like we were really, really trying. Denny Green was a major change in the franchise, Whiz brought Super Bowl momentum, Arians was a sound hire... and then we go and get Wilks. I guess I get it, but that coaching search, along with the lack of QB, fell supremely flat on the hype level. I defended Wilks, but I wasn't extremely excited.

This offseason in following seems like a grand gesture from someone trying to get me back that fails to acknowledge why it failed in the first place. It's flashy, but lacks substance.

Here's hoping, but I'll need to be proven wrong.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Arians was not at fault coaching but he was at fault for regressing our draft approach for the buddy buddy approach with Keim when accommodating his short term goals without realizing the franchise does not have a limited shelf life like him

 

[Solar7]

Arians was not at fault coaching but he was at fault for regressing our draft approach for the buddy buddy approach of Keim when accommodating his short term goals without realizing the franchise does not have a limited shelf life like him

I have to be honest, I'm not totally sure what happened in the Arians later years that people think is really all that bad... I might just be drawing a blank, but my biggest gripe has become Keim's poor drafting.

Maybe the short term deals? Paying Larry, paying Carson? But what else was the option, really? QB was a challenge, but the only player we missed on was Dak Prescott, and so did 31 other teams. It wasn't feasible to draft Mahomes or Watson.

 

[DVontel]

Arians is a great coach & I’ll always respect the guy.

Keim is at fault because he’s the GM, but the HC definitely plays a huge part in the drafting process too, especially to fit their system.

Tell you what, if our 2020 continues on the same theme that our 2018 & 2019 drafts have presented, y’know, like no big time athletic & small school reaches, & also 2019 Buccaneers draft is a preview of their future drafts, I know who played the bigger part in the bad drafts.

 

[Solar7]

Arians is a great coach & I’ll always respect the guy.

Keim is at fault because he’s the GM, but the HC definitely plays a huge part in the drafting process too, especially to fit their system.

Tell you what, if our 2020 continues on the same theme that our 2018 & 2019 drafts have presented, y’know, like no big time athletic & small school reaches, & also 2019 Buccaneers draft is a preview of their future drafts, I know who played the bigger part in the bad drafts.

Our 2018 draft is already pretty bad though... Our 1st pick is gone, Kirk is competing with 3 picks at his position, Mason Cole might lose his starting role to AQ Shipley (and we drafted a player to play his position), cut our 6th round pick and none of the other guys are ever going to start except in spot duty.

That's one starter, maybe two from that draft.

 

[JeffGollin]

Arians is a great coach & I’ll always respect the guy.

Keim is at fault because he’s the GM, but the HC definitely plays a huge part in the drafting process too, especially to fit their system.

Tell you what, if our 2020 continues on the same theme that our 2018 & 2019 drafts have presented, y’know, like no big time athletic & small school reaches, & also 2019 Buccaneers draft is a preview of their future drafts, I know who played the bigger part in the bad drafts.

Truth be told - we don't know why a pretty solid squad collapsed so quickly. (We can make an educated guess but we don't really know).

Culprits could include Arians (for overruling Keim), Keim (for not sticking to his guns), Keim (for being too cocky), Michael B (for for acting like an owner, immitating Jerry Jones, firing Arians and/or hiring Wilks) or Wilks (for coverting the team culture to boring mush). Or simply "bad luck" created by the football gods.

We don't know. We can only guess. (I suppose we can credit the Card organization for being leak-free).

Thank God Training Camp is just 2 weeks away with preseason and regular season not far behind. (Patience, Grasshoppers).

 

[DVontel]

Our 2018 draft is already pretty bad though... Our 1st pick is gone, Kirk is competing with 3 picks at his position, Mason Cole might lose his starting role to AQ Shipley (and we drafted a player to play his position), cut our 6th round pick and none of the other guys are ever going to start except in spot duty.

That's one starter, maybe two from that draft.

It’s been a year.

 

[Solar7]

It’s been a year.

It's been a year and there's only 4/6 members of that draft class left. Chase Edmonds is not going to overtake David Johnson unless DJ gets hurt.

It's not a good look.

 

[DVontel]

It's been a year and there's only 4/6 members of that draft class left. Chase Edmonds is not going to overtake David Johnson unless DJ gets hurt.

It's not a good look.

He can still be a good RB2.

 

[Solar7]

He can still be a good RB2.

Right, but this team is really running on empty when it comes to cheap, elite talent. Keim hasn't drafted a player that has made it to their second contract, that is on this team besides DJ and Rodney Gunter. Humphries is a maybe, Budda Baker is a maybe, but we have no homegrown or star talent here. Soon Fitz will be gone, PP21 will be gone or old, and Chandler Jones is getting up there in age.

6 years of Keim drafts (not counting this year), 42 players, and we have 2 guys on their second contract with only 5 guys guaranteed to start. That's not good.

 

[Stout]

Truth be told - we don't know why a pretty solid squad collapsed so quickly. (We can make an educated guess but we don't really know).

Culprits could include Arians (for overruling Keim), Keim (for not sticking to his guns), Keim (for being too cocky), Michael B (for for acting like an owner, immitating Jerry Jones, firing Arians and/or hiring Wilks) or Wilks (for coverting the team culture to boring mush). Or simply "bad luck" created by the football gods.

We don't know. We can only guess. (I suppose we can credit the Card organization for being leak-free).

Thank God Training Camp is just 2 weeks away with preseason and regular season not far behind. (Patience, Grasshoppers).

Age and criminal neglect of the most important position in football. And criminal neglect of the offensive line.