Do you think Arians was more at fault for the last few drafts than Keim?

[DVontel]

Maybe it’s just me, but these last 2 drafts, I can’t point out any picks that were phenomenal reaches like a Chad Williams, Brandon Williams, or Logan Thomas.

Even some dudes that performed adequately went higher than they were projected. John Brown & Markus Golden being key examples for me.

The last 2 drafts, post-Arians, I can’t really find a big time reach. Am I the only one that feels this way?

Not a Keim fan, but this just came across my mind.

 

[vince56]

You're not alone, I'm feeling the same thing too. The pre-2013 drafts weren't terrible either and I haven't looked it up, but I dont remember too many reaches in the early part of this decade before Arians.

 

[Finito]

Maybe it’s just me, but these last 2 drafts, I can’t point out any picks that were phenomenal reaches like a Chad Williams, Brandon Williams, or Logan Thomas.

Even some dudes that performed adequately went higher than they were projected. John Brown & Markus Golden being key examples for me.

The last 2 drafts, post-Arians, I can’t really find a big time reach. Am I the only one that feels this way?

Not a Keim fan, but this just came across my mind.

100% this was pretty much confirmed for me when the Bucs picked a small school CB Sean Bunting our of Central Michigan with the 39th pick.

I just started laughing.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

100% Keim

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Maybe it’s just me, but these last 2 drafts, I can’t point out any picks that were phenomenal reaches like a Chad Williams, Brandon Williams, or Logan Thomas.

Even some dudes that performed adequately went higher than they were projected. John Brown & Markus Golden being key examples for me.

The last 2 drafts, post-Arians, I can’t really find a big time reach. Am I the only one that feels this way?

Not a Keim fan, but this just came across my mind.

Apparently--according to Keim--Rosen was a huge reach.

 

[football karma]

indirectly

1. i think the last few drafts were about grabbing that last missing piece in the draft to make a playoff run--

2. Some hubris on ability to coach -- i.e. turn someone with athletic ability / measurables into a productive NFL player

 

[juza76]

arians was part of a small football program, his career hasnt been an easy one, probably his ego limited it
he never tollerate it took so long for him to get the head coachin job
the 2 coach of the year awards made him believe he was the super guru and probably the best in anything he does, and i guess he has been cookie even with michael bidwill


about the draft and the recent draft history

bruce arians has been the underdog and he loves the underdogs so he leaned to give a chance to those guys rather then a guy coming from a major program

just watch keim and kingsbury today, keim has the full control of the scene

with arians he was like a minor figure

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I only fault Arians for being loyal to a fault for "his guys."

 

[iLLmatiC]

He loves his underdogs.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Doesn’t really matter now. The hiring of Wilks and retention of Keim was Michael Bidwill’s decision. He is, after all, the CEO of the organization as well as the owner.

 

[JeffGollin]

Arians. ran into an injury brick wall.

The following year we brought in "safe" guys who could implement the "Wilks way" (including a dull, plodding offense

What disturbs me most is how rapidly the Arians roster collapsed after Wilks took over. Guys like the Badger (& others) - gone.

Jury's out on Keim - mainly because he was the same guy managing Arians as he was managing Wilks and now Kingsbuury, Same guy. Same approach. Same managing skills.

If there were extenuating circumstances, we fans don't know what they may have been.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Maybe it’s just me, but these last 2 drafts, I can’t point out any picks that were phenomenal reaches like a Chad Williams, Brandon Williams, or Logan Thomas.

Even some dudes that performed adequately went higher than they were projected. John Brown & Markus Golden being key examples for me.

The last 2 drafts, post-Arians, I can’t really find a big time reach. Am I the only one that feels this way?

Not a Keim fan, but this just came across my mind.

Imo, BA was definitely responsible for Hassan Reddick, he went to Temple, the Alma Mater of BA. Also Logan Thomas, BA raved about him but man was he horrible, he's now a TE lol.

 

[AZ Native]

Maybe it’s just me, but these last 2 drafts, I can’t point out any picks that were phenomenal reaches like a Chad Williams, Brandon Williams, or Logan Thomas.

Even some dudes that performed adequately went higher than they were projected. John Brown & Markus Golden being key examples for me.

The last 2 drafts, post-Arians, I can’t really find a big time reach. Am I the only one that feels this way?

Not a Keim fan, but this just came across my mind.

Maybe Keim was not the problem, but just BA being BA, like keeping Amos.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think the Arians-Keim combo had run its course and they were a flawed combo.

 

[outcent13]

At the end of the day Keim was in charge. If that means he let Arians make personnel decisions then it was still on him.

 

[THESMEL]

Don’t know what the hell your trying to justify - Murray is the biggest no risket no biscuit in the history of sports - even the Rome gladiators or Aztecs that died by sacrifice when the lost the game

 

[football karma]

as an aside:

i would love to know the dynamics of the Mb / SK / BA relationship the last year or so

the fact that the Cards were looking for a coach, BA announced he was ready to coach again ....

and MB didnt call THE WINNINGEST HEAD COACH IN AZ CARDINAL HISTORY to even talk says soooooooooooooooooooooooooo much

 

[Finito]

Arians. ran into an injury brick wall.

The following year we brought in "safe" guys who could implement the "Wilks way" (including a dull, plodding offense

What disturbs me most is how rapidly the Arians roster collapsed after Wilks took over. Guys like the Badger (& others) - gone.

Jury's out on Keim - mainly because he was the same guy managing Arians as he was managing Wilks and now Kingsbuury, Same guy. Same approach. Same managing skills.

If there were extenuating circumstances, we fans don't know what they may have been.

We offered TM more money than he signed for. TM gambled he thought he was going to get a huge contract on the open market and he didn’t.

 

[CFLredzoned]

indirectly

1. i think the last few drafts were about grabbing that last missing piece in the draft to make a playoff run--

2. Some hubris on ability to coach -- i.e. turn someone with athletic ability / measurables into a productive NFL player

That was really on full display for the 2016 draft. Remember the rhetoric in the local media? "They're so deep, nobody they draft is even going to make the team." I even remember Keim taking on that attitude in interviews. That draft had the feel of just being a throwaway right from the beginning. When the draft happened, I don't know if they tried to get too cute or who's fault it was. But it's weird how the results mirrored that attitude. That draft was a 100% throwaway that set them back big time.

The last two drafts with new first time NFL coaches, I think Keim went out of his way to make it an exercise on sticking to the board - and I guess building the board based on guys that have a more proven record of production.

 

[Stout]

Apparently--according to Keim--Rosen was a huge reach.

Bingo.

 

[overseascardfan]

Arians loved/s speed. If you look at all the reaches for the most part they ran very fast 40’s. He valued blue collar guys with speed. That’s not a totally flawed approach but you also have to factor in production and skills other than speed. A WR with 4.2 speed who can’t catch or a converted CB with sub 4.5 speed who can’t cover do your team no good.

 

[DVontel]

This got me thinking again.

Hell, just look at the Bucs’ 3rd round selection, Jamel Dean, Cornerback.

Guy was projected to go in the 6th-7th round best due to his inconsistency in college & 3 big knee injuries dating back to HS.

So where does he go? 3rd round of course.

You know who else that reminds me of?

Brandon Williams.

 

[Veer]

This got me thinking again.

Hell, just look at the Bucs’ 3rd round selection, Jamel Dean, Cornerback.

Guy was projected to go in the 6th-7th round best due to his inconsistency in college & 3 big knee injuries dating back to HS.

So where does he go? 3rd round of course.

You know who else that reminds me of?

Brandon Williams.

Exactly. He ran a 4.30 in Indy. Very inconsistent tape, timed speed doesn't show on tape. Looked like a late round flyer at best to me. 3 major knee injuries already. Crazy pick in the 3rd. He is basically Brandon Williams with huge injury red flags.

Though with the other 3rd they had, the Bucs selected Kentucky CB/S Mike Edwards, who reminds me of Mathieu. Smart, instinctive, physical hybrid player. Bowles knows exactly how to use this type of player. Polar opposite of Jamel Dean.

 

[PACardsFan]

I do agree that Arians had too much influence over personnel decisions. You have to know BA to understand that his over confidence is infectious. His early success with us gave him a gavel that Keim struggled to take away. For that, Keim can't be totally innocent though, as it was still his ultimate responsibility to build the team. If not for the trust of MB, Keim probably would have been fired. He has a second chance to fix things. Let's hope he learned a valuable lesson.

 

[Veer]

I do agree that Arians had too much influence over personnel decisions. You have to know BA to understand that his over confidence is infectious. His early success with us gave him a gavel that Keim struggled to take away. For that, Keim can't be totally innocent though, as it was still his ultimate responsibility to build the team. If not for the trust of MB, Keim probably would have been fired. He has a second chance to fix things. Let's hope he learned a valuable lesson.

I need to add that talented young GMs often get fired prematurely after some mistakes. A lot of them should have gotten more time to show that they have grown. I understand the NFL is mostly about winning now. Keim is among the few lucky GMs who got a 2nd chance thanks to his bond with Bidwill. Let's hope Keim has learned from past mistakes, because this would make him a much better GM than anybody we could've hired to replace him.