Do you think Arians was more at fault for the last few drafts than Keim?

[ARZCardinals]

Arians. ran into an injury brick wall.

The following year we brought in "safe" guys who could implement the "Wilks way" (including a dull, plodding offense

What disturbs me most is how rapidly the Arians roster collapsed after Wilks took over. Guys like the Badger (& others) - gone.

Jury's out on Keim - mainly because he was the same guy managing Arians as he was managing Wilks and now Kingsbuury, Same guy. Same approach. Same managing skills.

If there were extenuating circumstances, we fans don't know what they may have been.

Wilks was a square peg in a round hole guy
Didn’t care guys abilities..just do your job

 

[Solar7]

I think Keim's goals may have shifted, but I don't blame Arians necessarily. In the Arians years, we were looking at a strong roster with very few holes - we had very few positions open, and therefore taking a risk on a guy with amazing measurables was much more sensible than some guy with basic football fundamentals who was just going to end up being a backup. Not to mention, we had to focus on the few positions where a guy might see the field, since we didn't have the cap room to fill some of the holes we had.

In the past few years, we've been talentless, and now everything is a hole. That makes it easier to just take whoever fell to your spot.

 

[football karma]

His early success with us gave him a gavel that Keim struggled to take away. For that, Keim can't be totally innocent though, as it was still his ultimate responsibility to build the team.

i think this is spot on

this is also a habit with Mike B too

Denny Green took over personnel -- Graves took a back seat

after Denny was fired, Graves ran the show until Whis engineered the SB run. Then Whis had a much bigger voice in personnel

it wouldnt surprise me to learn that BA was listened to on draft / personnel more and more by Mike B

 

[NJCardFan]

The last 2 drafts, post-Arians, I can’t really find a big time reach. Am I the only one that feels this way?

You mean like trading up 5 spots to take a QB then trade him away the very next draft? I'd call that a big time reach.

 

[AZCB34]

Maybe Keim's drinking allowed Arians to seize drafting power.

 

[DVontel]

You mean like trading up 5 spots to take a QB then trade him away the very next draft? I'd call that a big time reach.

Per usual

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[NJCardFan]

I only fault Arians for being loyal to a fault for "his guys."

His devotion to Amos Jones was a real head scratcher.

 

[NJCardFan]

Per usual

You must be registered for see images attach

You said you didn't see any big time reaches the last 2 drafts. I point one out and right on cue, you move the goalposts.

 

[NJCardFan]

Imo, BA was definitely responsible for Hassan Reddick, he went to Temple, the Alma Mater of BA. Also Logan Thomas, BA raved about him but man was he horrible, he's now a TE lol.

The maddening part about BA was his refusal to develop a QB. He brings in Palmer, which was fine but he didn't bother to groom a QB behind him and this was to the bitter end.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Apparently--according to Keim--Rosen was a huge reach.

He was because Rosen SUCKS by literally every measurable statistic

 

[Stout]

He was because Rosen SUCKS by literally every measurable statistic

Your unadulterated hatred of Rosen is on the record--again.

 

[SECTION 11]

I would have to say that was one of the shortest, oddest retirements I’ve seen. Something was awry. It’s hard not to draw the conclusion that he was asked to retire for one reason or another.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

The maddening part about BA was his refusal to develop a QB. He brings in Palmer, which was fine but he didn't bother to groom a QB behind him and this was to the bitter end.

I agree, never could understand that part knowing Carson Palmer only had around 3 yrs left in him.

 

[NJCardFan]

I agree, never could understand that part knowing Carson Palmer only had around 3 yrs left in him.

He was already 34 when the Cards got him. When you're starting QB is approaching middle age(end even old age by NFL standards) you might want to think about a replacement. And Drew Stanton was not the answer nor would he ever be a viable starter. And BA only drafted 1 QB and that is a guy who's now a TE. Now, hindsight being what it is, there weren't a whole lot of QB's although in 2014 he could have drafted Bridgewater or in 2017 we could have traded up to get Mahomes or Watson to groom.

 

[Solar7]

The maddening part about BA was his refusal to develop a QB. He brings in Palmer, which was fine but he didn't bother to groom a QB behind him and this was to the bitter end.

I agree, never could understand that part knowing Carson Palmer only had around 3 yrs left in him.

Short of Dak Prescott, what was supposed to happen? Where's our great, future QB that we're supposed to have taken? Every project QB was garbage.

We had our eyes on Watson and Mahomes, and teams behind us sold the farm. That's the end of that.

 

[Jetstream Green]

All I can say is that the recent Tampa Bay draft looked a lot like a Cardinal draft from the Arians years

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Short of Dak Prescott, what was supposed to happen? Where's our great, future QB that we're supposed to have taken? Every project QB was garbage.

We had our eyes on Watson and Mahomes, and teams behind us sold the farm. That's the end of that.

BA wanted the 2 Temple alums & SK bowed down to him, that's what happened IMO. We could've made some trades & acquired Mahomes. I'm not sold on Prescott, I just don't think he's elite like some do. As a Kentucky fan, I watched him torch us time & again except for one game we won in Lexington on a 51 yd FG to end the game. Most of his damage he did against us at Miss St was running, not with his arm. I remember thinking when the Cowboys drafted him, "what, he's not a passing QB, what are they smoking"? He's about to get paid though, next season he's gonna get a huge payday, not sure he's worth all that but it's the going rate for starting QB's these days.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

He was already 34 when the Cards got him. When you're starting QB is approaching middle age(end even old age by NFL standards) you might want to think about a replacement. And Drew Stanton was not the answer nor would he ever be a viable starter. And BA only drafted 1 QB and that is a guy who's now a TE. Now, hindsight being what it is, there weren't a whole lot of QB's although in 2014 he could have drafted Bridgewater or in 2017 we could have traded up to get Mahomes or Watson to groom.

Not making some trades to get Mahomes was a major mistake, let's hope that KM makes us stop thinking about that mistake lol?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

The maddening part about BA was his refusal to develop a QB. He brings in Palmer, which was fine but he didn't bother to groom a QB behind him and this was to the bitter end.

I think he didn't care, he knew his time in Arizona wasn't gonna last much longer & Palmer had the same window. Hell, for all we know they probably planned the time they were gonna call it quits, ironically they retired at the same time lol. BA was just gonna ride Palmer until that day, wasn't worried about the next chapter.

 

[Solar7]

BA wanted the 2 Temple alums & SK bowed down to him, that's what happened IMO. We could've made some trades & acquired Mahomes. I'm not sold on Prescott, I just don't think he's elite like some do. As a Kentucky fan, I watched him torch us time & again except for one game we won in Lexington on a 51 yd FG to end the game. Most of his damage he did against us at Miss St was running, not with his arm. I remember thinking when the Cowboys drafted him, "what, he's not a passing QB, what are they smoking"? He's about to get paid though, next season he's gonna get a huge payday, not sure he's worth all that but it's the going rate for starting QB's these days.

Mahomes, Watson, AND Trubisky were all being run through the mud. The conversation was consistently "wait until next year." If you could rewind back to the period of that draft, the general perception was that these were all risky prospects who were going to fall.

It's absolutely silly to think that we should have been moving up into the top 10 for them at the cost of a first round pick. Their success up to this point doesn't change what the atmosphere was at the time.

 

[Jim Otis]

Do I blame Arians ? No !I look at the pecking order . Commander in Chief --- Mike Bidwill ------- General Keim ------ Colonel Arians , why would I blame Arians ???

 

[Krangodnzr]

Do I blame Arians ? No !I look at the pecking order . Commander in Chief --- Mike Bidwill ------- General Keim ------ Colonel Arians , why would I blame Arians ???

Because if you are going with the military theme, success and failure has more to do with Colonels/lieutenant Colonels/Captains than CiC and Generals.

Arians was such a plus coach in calling a game, but he made other really questionable moves. The LS fiasco. Leaving Kerwyn William's in to block the edge on a FG attempt and he was steamrolled for a kick block. Amos Jones. The coach absolutely has some say in personnel decisions.

 

[Jim Otis]

Let me add this . Do I believe in redemption , yes ? They screwed up big time last season , and it's my opinion that they have hit the Mother Load this season , I've watched the game of football since 1958 and I can't remember ever seeing a QB with the overall skill set that Kyler Murray has !

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Mahomes, Watson, AND Trubisky were all being run through the mud. The conversation was consistently "wait until next year." If you could rewind back to the period of that draft, the general perception was that these were all risky prospects who were going to fall.

It's absolutely silly to think that we should have been moving up into the top 10 for them at the cost of a first round pick. Their success up to this point doesn't change what the atmosphere was at the time.

I understand what you're saying, if we knew then what we know now about Mahomes, compared to the perception of him at that time. "Air Raid" system QB's can't cut it in the NFL many were saying about him. Facts are facts though, sure they probably thought he would fall into their laps because of all the negativity but we needed a QB of the future. He was there for the taking if they would've only got aggressive? Water under the bridge now bro, let's just hope KM is as good as advertised? I believe he is but time will tell?

 

[PACardsFan]

Let me add this . Do I believe in redemption , yes ? They screwed up big time last season , and it's my opinion that they have hit the Mother Load this season , I've watched the game of football since 1958 and I can't remember ever seeing a QB with the overall skill set that Kyler Murray has !

I started watching football in 1964 (right after the Cardinals beat the Yankees in the WS). I was 6 years old at the time. In my heart of hearts, I agree 100% with what you're saying. Many on this board are non-committal towards Murray. And that's OK. Hell, most of my friends that have football savvy, are also non-committal about his chances in the NFL. Honestly, there has never been anyone that is quite like him before. He's almost a combination of Tarkenton (elusiveness, accuracy, field vision), Marino (quick, effortless release), Mahomes (multiple arm angles, baseball arm strength), and Wilson (uncanny ability to make something out of nothing).

No one has quite pinpointed some intangibles that I believe he possesses that will ultimately define just whether Murray ever gets to that "special" level. Everyone could/can see the "burn in the belly" that guys like Brady, Brees, Kelly, Elway, and Favre possessed. Then you had the cerebral & talented guys like P Manning, Unitas, Rodgers, Aikman, and Montana. I truly believe that Murray possesses both of these qualities above. He may not wear his emotions on his sleeve like Mayfield, but Lincoln Riley has said many times that Murray is every bit as intense as Mayfield is. Riley has also indicated that Murray is the most cerebral & prepared QB he has ever coached at any level. Time will tell.