Do you think Nash still has a chance to win the MVP Award?

[Lorenzo]

Well looks like the Suns fans won't answer me... you know the same Suns fans that are calling me a homer and saying Nash deserves this award hands down. He has definitely has a case this year but shouldn't get it, seriously.. last year he was by far the most illogical choice EVER and the only reason any of you have given me debating Lebron's case is that he was on a bad team (which is untrue). So please... enlighten me, why would anyone vote for Nash?

Let me put it in perspective for you guys in a comical fashion, maybe that will get through:

in an era with dwyane wade, lebron james, kobe bryant, tim duncan, kevin garnett, dirk nowitzki, etc why are we letting steve nash make them his bitch in MVP voting? we're supposed to look back in 20 years and say,

yeah son, nash ruled the league.

oh, so he was like jordan level and obviously the best player in the league?

well no, he was just really good, but there were others who were better.

well then he must've been the ultimate winner, racking up 3 straight titles?

well, no he didn't win the first 2 years and may not again this year.

oh, because his supporting cast was so weak? well no, 2 of them would be considered top 20 or 25 players in the league and the others were athletic 3 point shooters who could pass? another guy took a much lesser cast of players and single-handedly won a title, but he was no steve nash.

well then his stats were just crazy?

well, no he racked up assists like crazy and scored fairly well but he didn't play defense or rebound.

but i thought mvp's were usually great on both ends of the court and well-rounde.....

Look! he was just the best, OK! the mvp voters are too smart for us.

interesting. Having said that....i still think nash deserved it the past two years. The first season he did have amare lighting it up. he did have joe johnson who is a complete offensive player at the 2. He did have Q lighting it up from downtown and marion flushing easy dunks. But it was a race between he and shaq. and it was clear that nash had a better season than that of o'neal.....eventhough some heat fans can argue that shaq's presence opens up the floodgates for an offense....especially for a young D-wade.
Last season amare went down and steve nash had a better season. The suns finished the year strong and there was no other player getting equal recognition around the league.

 

[Lorenzo]

Wow. Snappy. As long as it's not cow country fresh air I think I am good.






Yep and I also said that if Dirk won it I wouldn't be upset. Didn't hear that about Nash from you Mavs fans. In case you missed it, I was being sarcastic about Nash winning it hands down because the Mavs fans feeling Dirk deserves it hands down.

Cow country fresh air is the best. I love fresh air....you can take a deep breath without swallowing dirt.

you said you mavs fans(which i am) I never said i would be upset if nash won. I've said that i think both he a dirk deserve it. I'll be upset if the mavs don't win it all. I don't think dirk deserves it hands down. I think he is the favorite thus far. I know there is another mavs fan saying different things, but both of you guys are going back and forth beating a dead horse.

 

[Covert Rain]

Cow country fresh air is the best. I love fresh air....you can take a deep breath without swallowing dirt.

Yeah but swallowing airborne cow dung particles is no step up in quality.

you said you mavs fans(which i am) I never said i would be upset if nash won. I've said that i think both he a dirk deserve it. I'll be upset if the mavs don't win it all. I don't think dirk deserves it hands down. I think he is the favorite thus far. I know there is another mavs fan saying different things, but both of you guys are going back and forth beating a dead horse.

You have made some homerish comments but that is OK. I wouldn't expect anything less. I just have fun countering those comments. It's not personel. It's all in good fun. Besides Mav fans (maybe not you) are some of the most defensive fans I have ever met. It's like you say something about Dirk or the Mavs and you just stole their first born.

I admit though, I love getting a rise out of some of them that show up here.

 

[jbeecham]

Well looks like the Suns fans won't answer me... you know the same Suns fans that are calling me a homer and saying Nash deserves this award hands down. He has definitely has a case this year but shouldn't get it, seriously.. last year he was by far the most illogical choice EVER and the only reason any of you have given me debating Lebron's case is that he was on a bad team (which is untrue). So please... enlighten me, why would anyone vote for Nash?

Let me put it in perspective for you guys in a comical fashion, maybe that will get through:

in an era with dwyane wade, lebron james, kobe bryant, tim duncan, kevin garnett, dirk nowitzki, etc why are we letting steve nash make them his bitch in MVP voting? we're supposed to look back in 20 years and say,

yeah son, nash ruled the league.

oh, so he was like jordan level and obviously the best player in the league?

well no, he was just really good, but there were others who were better.

well then he must've been the ultimate winner, racking up 3 straight titles?

well, no he didn't win the first 2 years and may not again this year.

oh, because his supporting cast was so weak? well no, 2 of them would be considered top 20 or 25 players in the league and the others were athletic 3 point shooters who could pass? another guy took a much lesser cast of players and single-handedly won a title, but he was no steve nash.

well then his stats were just crazy?

well, no he racked up assists like crazy and scored fairly well but he didn't play defense or rebound.

but i thought mvp's were usually great on both ends of the court and well-rounde.....

Look! he was just the best, OK! the mvp voters are too smart for us.

What does MVP stand for again.......oh that's right, Most Valuable Player, not best player or most exciting player or fan favorite player. The MVP always seems to go to a top 3 team so that rules out guys like Kobe, Lebron, DWade, Garnett, Shaq, etc. So that leaves Dirk, Nash & Duncan and most so-called experts feel like the Spurs have underachieved all year so that hurts Duncan's chances.

His 1st MVP, he took a team that went 29-53 and turned them into a 62-20 team and a trip to the WCF, probably would've made the finals if Joe Johnson doesn't get taken out by Stackhouse and broke his orbital bone in his eye socket.

His 2nd MVP, he takes a team missing 3/5 of it's starting lineup from the previous season in Amare Stoudemire (microfracture), Joe Johnson (traded) & Quentin Richardson (traded) and missing Kurt Thomas for 1/2 the season to a 54-28 record and another trip to the WCF and once again injury strikes our starting SG (Raja Bell) derailing a trip to the finals. What other player could take a team missing that many key players could still get their team to the WCF? Kobe can't, Wade can't win without Shaq (and vice versa), Garnett can't make the playoffs, none of the guys you mentioned could've pulled off what Nash did last year in PHX and that's why he was the MVP.

On top of that, it seems like playing with Nash has helped a lot of players have career best years. He leads a team considered to be the most exciting and fun to watch team in basketball. Other NBA players can't stop raving about how much they love watching the Suns and would love to play their style and play with Nash. You can say that the Suns have a better supporting cast, but without Nash that support cast turns back into the 29-53 team of 3 yrs ago and Marion & Amare probably wouldn't be all-stars this season. Sure they were all-stars before Nash came along when Kidd was here and even Marbury, but without a great PG setting them up they struggle.

Will Nash win it this season? Probably not. The Mavs have put a big gap in the standings that will probably get Dirk the MVP. But you can argue all day until your blue in the face with Suns fans about how important Steve Nash is to this team and how deserving he is of his 3rd MVP. I won't be disappointed if Dirk wins it because Dallas has an amazing record and Nash seems to have a bias against him because he's won it the last 2 seasons.

 

[Covert Rain]

What does MVP stand for again.......oh that's right, Most Valuable Player, not best player or most exciting player or fan favorite player. The MVP always seems to go to a top 3 team so that rules out guys like Kobe, Lebron, DWade, Garnett, Shaq, etc. So that leaves Dirk, Nash & Duncan and most so-called experts feel like the Spurs have underachieved all year so that hurts Duncan's chances.

His 1st MVP, he took a team that went 29-53 and turned them into a 62-20 team and a trip to the WCF, probably would've made the finals if Joe Johnson doesn't get taken out by Stackhouse and broke his orbital bone in his eye socket.

His 2nd MVP, he takes a team missing 3/5 of it's starting lineup from the previous season in Amare Stoudemire (microfracture), Joe Johnson (traded) & Quentin Richardson (traded) and missing Kurt Thomas for 1/2 the season to a 54-28 record and another trip to the WCF and once again injury strikes our starting SG (Raja Bell) derailing a trip to the finals. What other player could take a team missing that many key players could still get their team to the WCF? Kobe can't, Wade can't win without Shaq (and vice versa), Garnett can't make the playoffs, none of the guys you mentioned could've pulled off what Nash did last year in PHX and that's why he was the MVP.

On top of that, it seems like playing with Nash has helped a lot of players have career best years. He leads a team considered to be the most exciting and fun to watch team in basketball. Other NBA players can't stop raving about how much they love watching the Suns and would love to play their style and play with Nash. You can say that the Suns have a better supporting cast, but without Nash that support cast turns back into the 29-53 team of 3 yrs ago and Marion & Amare probably wouldn't be all-stars this season. Sure they were all-stars before Nash came along when Kidd was here and even Marbury, but without a great PG setting them up they struggle.

Will Nash win it this season? Probably not. The Mavs have put a big gap in the standings that will probably get Dirk the MVP. But you can argue all day until your blue in the face with Suns fans about how important Steve Nash is to this team and how deserving he is of his 3rd MVP. I won't be disappointed if Dirk wins it because Dallas has an amazing record and Nash seems to have a bias against him because he's won it the last 2 seasons.

That post almost brought a tear to my eye. I had to strain myself in the event of rust though. Well said.

 

[mribnik]

What does MVP stand for again.......oh that's right, Most Valuable Player, not best player or most exciting player or fan favorite player. The MVP always seems to go to a top 3 team so that rules out guys like Kobe, Lebron, DWade, Garnett, Shaq, etc. So that leaves Dirk, Nash & Duncan and most so-called experts feel like the Spurs have underachieved all year so that hurts Duncan's chances.

His 1st MVP, he took a team that went 29-53 and turned them into a 62-20 team and a trip to the WCF, probably would've made the finals if Joe Johnson doesn't get taken out by Stackhouse and broke his orbital bone in his eye socket.

His 2nd MVP, he takes a team missing 3/5 of it's starting lineup from the previous season in Amare Stoudemire (microfracture), Joe Johnson (traded) & Quentin Richardson (traded) and missing Kurt Thomas for 1/2 the season to a 54-28 record and another trip to the WCF and once again injury strikes our starting SG (Raja Bell) derailing a trip to the finals. What other player could take a team missing that many key players could still get their team to the WCF? Kobe can't, Wade can't win without Shaq (and vice versa), Garnett can't make the playoffs, none of the guys you mentioned could've pulled off what Nash did last year in PHX and that's why he was the MVP.

On top of that, it seems like playing with Nash has helped a lot of players have career best years. He leads a team considered to be the most exciting and fun to watch team in basketball. Other NBA players can't stop raving about how much they love watching the Suns and would love to play their style and play with Nash. You can say that the Suns have a better supporting cast, but without Nash that support cast turns back into the 29-53 team of 3 yrs ago and Marion & Amare probably wouldn't be all-stars this season. Sure they were all-stars before Nash came along when Kidd was here and even Marbury, but without a great PG setting them up they struggle.

Will Nash win it this season? Probably not. The Mavs have put a big gap in the standings that will probably get Dirk the MVP. But you can argue all day until your blue in the face with Suns fans about how important Steve Nash is to this team and how deserving he is of his 3rd MVP. I won't be disappointed if Dirk wins it because Dallas has an amazing record and Nash seems to have a bias against him because he's won it the last 2 seasons.

I agree with most of your post, but am I the only one on this board that doesn't think we would've made it to the finals if Joe Johnson and Raja bell were fully healthy the last two years? The Spurs were simply better than us that year. With Bell healthy, we probably stretch the Mavs series to 7 games, but I don't understand why everyone just assumes we would've won that series with him healthy.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Nash sux

You are beyond description. . . in a bad way. I'll be soooo happy when Dirk gets the Poldoff trophy and the O'Brien trophy.

Nelly Furtado: “Is that the truth or are you messing with me? Is your game MVP like Nowitzki?”

Be careful, you are looming on the fine line that is troll.

 

[jbeecham]

Missing those guys certainly didn't help our chances. Both of those teams had very little bench depth so those injuries hurt us a lot. I really think we would've beat the Spurs with the way Amare & Nash were playing if Joe Johnson was there contributing too because we needed 1 more weapon since Marion & Q sucked bigtime. Last year, we were so injury-ridden that we probably still wouldn't have beaten the Mavs even with a healthy Raja, but it sure would've helped our chances to have him healthy.

 

[mribnik]

Missing those guys certainly didn't help our chances. Both of those teams had very little bench depth so those injuries hurt us a lot. I really think we would've beat the Spurs with the way Amare & Nash were playing if Joe Johnson was there contributing too because we needed 1 more weapon since Marion & Q sucked bigtime. Last year, we were so injury-ridden that we probably still wouldn't have beaten the Mavs even with a healthy Raja, but it sure would've helped our chances to have him healthy.

There's no way to prove this obviously, but I just have to disagree. The team was simply not ready and experienced enough to beat San Antonio that year. They led every game (I think) going into the fourth quarter and got killed in the fourth (except for game 4). The only game the Suns won against San Antonio in the regular season was a game when Duncan and Manu didn't play, and they still barely won that game. The Spurs had a huge mental edge on the Suns and there was no way the Suns would've won that series. The single game the Suns won was extremely close and could've gone either way. It was still a great win though.

In addition, I do think the Suns had a good chance to beat the Mavs last year fully healthy, but I just don't see any reason to assume that the Suns would've won had Raja been healthy. It would've gone 7 games for sure though.

 

[myrondizzo]

There's no way to prove this obviously, but I just have to disagree. The team was simply not ready and experienced enough to beat San Antonio that year. They led every game (I think) going into the fourth quarter and got killed in the fourth (except for game 4). The only game the Suns won against San Antonio in the regular season was a game when Duncan and Manu didn't play, and they still barely won that game. The Spurs had a huge mental edge on the Suns and there was no way the Suns would've won that series. The single game the Suns won was extremely close and could've gone either way. It was still a great win though.

i think the fact that we were winning every game until the fourth quarter showed that we were capable of winning but we just ran out of gas from our guys having to play the entire game.

 

[mribnik]

i think the fact that we were winning every game until the fourth quarter showed that we were capable of winning but we just ran out of gas from our guys having to play the entire game.

That's exactly why the Suns weren't capable of winning. The Spurs were running with us and were still mentally prepared for the 4th quarter. They were also a much better coached team. Playing tough for 3 quarters means absolutely nothing.

 

[myrondizzo]

yeah i just think that the reason we ran out of gas was because our starters were all playing 40+ min a game and had JJ played nash's legs would have been more fresh and been able to make the push at the end of the games to close out the wins. i'm not saying that we would have swept them but we would not have lost in five. JJ's injury also made the dallas series even more physically draining.

 

[mribnik]

yeah i just think that the reason we ran out of gas was because our starters were all playing 40+ min a game and had JJ played nash's legs would have been more fresh and been able to make the push at the end of the games to close out the wins. i'm not saying that we would have swept them but we would not have lost in five. JJ's injury also made the dallas series even more physically draining.

That could very well be. I still don't think we would've won the series though. Regardless, I don't understand why a good amount of Suns fans say without hesitation that we would've won the title fully healthy the last two years.

 

[Covert Rain]

That could very well be. I still don't think we would've won the series though. Regardless, I don't understand why a good amount of Suns fans say without hesitation that we would've won the title fully healthy the last two years.

On the flipside I don't see a reason why Suns fans would not say that. We had a good track records against the elite and a good regular season to boot. I am one of the ones that thinks we would have beat Dallas with Amare.

For starters if you go just from a stats perspective, the one are Dallas beat us to death was from the free throw line. If you look at Amar's trips to the line both 2 years ago and this year, you know that doesn't happen. Now factor in the other guys who were hurt. It's not a stretch by any stretch of the imagination.

Some of it is homerism and some based on direct observation on how this team plays when healthy versus not healthy. It's not just the fans. There were many so called experts that believed it too. So while you say we will never be able to prove it, on the flipside you can't disprove it either.

 

[jbeecham]

Don't forget that we completely owned the Heat last year despite our injuries. So if we had made it past Dallas then we would've been the favorites in the finals.

 

[mribnik]

On the flipside I don't see a reason why Suns fans would not say that. We had a good track records against the elite and a good regular season to boot. I am one of the ones that thinks we would have beat Dallas with Amare.

For starters if you go just from a stats perspective, the one are Dallas beat us to death was from the free throw line. If you look at Amar's trips to the line both 2 years ago and this year, you know that doesn't happen. Now factor in the other guys who were hurt. It's not a stretch by any stretch of the imagination.

Some of it is homerism and some based on direct observation on how this team plays when healthy versus not healthy. It's not just the fans. There were many so called experts that believed it too. So while you say we will never be able to prove it, on the flipside you can't disprove it either.

And so am I? When I'm referring to a completely healthy Suns team last year, I mean with Raja not hurting his calf and maybe Kurt Thomas being healthy. We definitely could've beaten the Mavs last year, but it's not so obvious that I would have assumed it would've happened. I don't think either of us were even considering Amare, since he missed all but 3 games last year.

Edit: If Joe Johnson never got hurt, do you think the Suns would've easily made it to the finals. What about last year Sans Amare? That's what I'm saying.

 

[mribnik]

Don't forget that we completely owned the Heat last year despite our injuries. So if we had made it past Dallas then we would've been the favorites in the finals.

I would agree with this.

 

[Covert Rain]

Edit: If Joe Johnson never got hurt, do you think the Suns would've easily made it to the finals. What about last year Sans Amare? That's what I'm saying.

I have a hard time seperating the two because Amare is a legit part of this team. To me injured is injured if your out for the year or 10 games. For me I have no doubts if Amare was part of the equation last year.

However, even without Amare, having the injuries we did, I think if everyone else was healthy we could have won that series. Key word being could. Dallas was no world killers last year and we matched up well against the Heat.

 

[mribnik]

I have a hard time seperating the two because Amare is a legit part of this team. To me injured is injured if your out for the year or 10 games. For me I have no doubts if Amare was part of the equation last year.

However, even without Amare, having the injuries we did, I think if everyone else was healthy we could have won that series. Key word being could. Dallas was no world killers last year and we matched up well against the Heat.

So we agree then. With Amare it's a different story. Without him, even with Bell being healthy there is clearly no sure victory against the Mavs. The Suns certainly could have won that series, but I don't see why so many Suns fans say the Suns would've won without hesitation. "The only reason the Suns lost is because Raja got hurt." I think that's a load of crap.

In contrast to the Mavs series, I don't think the Suns would've won the Spurs series whether JJ was healthy or not. The series might've been different, but I think the Suns would've lost either way.

 

[elindholm]

Don't forget that we completely owned the Heat last year despite our injuries. So if we had made it past Dallas then we would've been the favorites in the finals.

True, but the Mavericks were favored in the finals as well, especially once they won the first two games.

 

[jbeecham]

In contrast to the Mavs series, I don't think the Suns would've won that series whether JJ was healthy or not. The series might've been different, but I think the Suns would've lost either way.

I think you mean the Spurs series in 04-05 (since we beat the Mavs without JJ the last few games that year). That series could've gone either way if we're healthy in my mind. JJ was our best Ginobili defender (Jim Jackson was not a good defender). The biggest reason we lost that series was Marion & Q not showing up, but also our doubling of Duncan caused our defense to scramble all the time, which also helped to wear us out for the 4th qtrs.

 

[mribnik]

I think you mean the Spurs series in 04-05 (since we beat the Mavs without JJ the last few games that year). That series could've gone either way if we're healthy in my mind. JJ was our best Ginobili defender (Jim Jackson was not a good defender). The biggest reason we lost that series was Marion & Q not showing up, but also our doubling of Duncan caused our defense to scramble all the time, which also helped to wear us out for the 4th qtrs.

I just realized that and fixed it for clarity. I thought JJ was supposed to be our best Parker defender as well? Didn't he defend parker for some of the series? Either way, I think JJ's defense was about as overrated as Bells is now, although he's probably a better perimeter defender than Bell.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns certainly could have won that series, but I don't see why so many Suns fans say the Suns would've won without hesitation.

I think your jumping the gun a bit. I bet if you started a poll you would find a ton of Suns fans saying that we had a legit shot versus saying it was a 100% guarantee lock. Some would still feel it would be a lock. However, your not giving enough credit to some of the posters in here for having a more level head.

 

[mribnik]

I think your jumping the gun a bit. I bet if you started a poll you would find a ton of Suns fans saying that we had a legit shot versus saying it was a 100% guarantee lock. Some would still feel it would be a lock. However, your not giving enough credit to some of the posters in here for having a more level head.

Forgive me for my choice of words then. I chose not to use the word "majority" because I didn't think that to be the case. I merely meant a larger portion than I would expect.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I just realized that and fixed it for clarity. I thought JJ was supposed to be our best Parker defender as well? Didn't he defend parker for some of the series? Either way, I think JJ's defense was about as overrated as Bells is now, although he's probably a better perimeter defender than Bell.

Yeah, I believe the matchups (at least when the suns were on defense) went like this against SA

Parker - JJ
Ginobili - Q
Bowen - Nash
Duncan - Marion (+ whoever was closest)
Nazr (or was it Rasho? can't remember) - Stat