Doncic gets Triple Double in 22 minutes. First in 11 years

[Chris_Sanders]

Though I won't budge on calling a spade a spade when it comes to race/religion/sexuality.

 

[JCSunsfan]

See above.

Wow.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Wow.

I have clarified as cheesebeef requested

You are welcome to appeal to the higher powers if you feel I am out of bounds.

But to be further clear:

#1. I will not accept race/nationality/religion/sexuality as a reason to not draft someone. Its nonsense.

#2. You are more than welcome to debate an opinion and not a person. That is what a message board is. Debating opinions.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is a group of fans on this board that will be pissed off about Doncic if we draft him at 2 or 3 because he is solely white and european. Its nonsense

OK. I did the search. The only person I could find making a big deal about Doncic being white was DevonCardsfan and his point was not that Doncic was a bad player because he is white, but that he thinks some people are overvaluing him because he is white. I do not see that as racism.

Those of us that have expressed concerns about Doncic have almost all said we would take him somewhere in the top 4, even 2 or 3, just not first.

So, based upon the best research I could do here, I believe your characterization of "a group of fans being pissed if we take him at 2 or 3" is inaccurate.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Easy answer.

You are more than welcome to debate a thing like "Stats are all that matter" but not a specific poster.

So if I say "Dummys only look at stats" it is a far different thing that "Chris Sanders is a dummy"

So, we can insult one another to our hearts content if we throw a thin fake veil over the accusation? So, if I say, people who criticize Doncic's shooting are idiots and embiciles, that's OK, even if it like just two of us who are doing it and everyone know exactly who I am talking about?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Easy answer.

You are more than welcome to debate a thing like "Stats are all that matter" but not a specific poster.

So if I say "Dummys only look at stats" it is a far different thing that "Chris Sanders is a dummy"

Hmmm... not sure that’s what you did. Here’s your post again:

Nope but just like the slappys who were pointing to Lonzo Balls college shooting numbers and I was explaining how skill/form actually matters (hopefully you weren't one)

Okay... so the above is okay because you didn’t single out one single poster here (even though you clearly intimating you’re talking about posters here by saying hopefully JC wasn’t one of them).

Would this be kosher also? (NOTE: This is a hypothetical statement to gain clarification on the rules and not a statement I believe to be true)

“Idiots/Dummies/Slappies who ignore Doncic’s lack of athleticism, do so at their own peril.”

After all, no single poster is mentioned.

I don’t think it would be, nor should it be.

 

[GatorAZ]

Yeah let’s draft Doncic with a top 5 pick because the other Euro players that McD has selected in the top 5 like Bender & Len have all worked out so well...

Len played two years at Maryland and Bender barely played at all in EuroLeague. Should we not draft Ayton because he’s from the same conference as Chriss?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Hmmm... not sure that’s what you did. Here’s your post again:



Okay... so the above is okay because you didn’t single out one single poster here (even though you clearly intimating you’re talking about posters here by saying hopefully JC wasn’t one of them).

Would this be kosher also?

“Idiots/Dummies/Slappies who ignore Doncic’s lack of athleticism, do so at their own peril.”

After all, no single poster is mentioned.

It's already been said more than once and no one took offense. I wouldn't

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So, we can insult one another to our hearts content if we throw a thin fake veil over the accusation? So, if I say, people who criticize Doncic's shooting are idiots and embiciles, that's OK, even if it like just two of us who are doing it and everyone know exactly who I am talking about?

I have no idea who you are talking about so I guess it comes down to interpretation.

Would it help if I just apologized on the term "slappy" and go to "Unwise"

The point is the same and I just used the most recent example of over emphasizing stats I could think of. If you only look at numbers on paper and not at the talent you are going to be "unwise" or just find yourself a few years later on the wrong side of that arguement.

So sincerely...and I 100% mean this because I don't want to make this about 1 word and not the point...I apologize for the term "slappy".

 

[Raindog]

There is a group of fans on this board that will be pissed off about Doncic if we draft him at 2 or 3 because he is solely white and european. Its nonsense

The Doncic supporters around here are being very disingenuous about this. Nobody is casting aspersions on him for being white or European... not even the "great white hype" comment of earlier. Virtually all the skepticism/criticism I have seen is centered around Doncic being overrated and overhyped, mostly because he is lacking elite athletic ability, he has succeeded in an inferior league against lower quality competition, and his skillset in that setting quite possibly will not translate playing against the superior athletes in the NBA.

The only element where race/nationality has entered is in the belief that many of his supporters are insistent on overlooking his flaws because they either have an agenda to support a "white" star or a European star. That assumption may be overblown, but I think there is also a grain of truth in it for some of the harder core support he is receiving.

Recall when the Suns were rumored to be trying to trade for a disgruntled Porzingis at the beginning of the season - it was greeted with universal excitement here by EVERYONE. NOBODY said "yuck - Porzingis, white, Euro, overrated - no thanks." And I daresay that would be the exact same response if the Suns were potentially trading for Porzingis today (injury notwithstanding). And that's because we all know that Porzingis isn't overrated or overhyped. Nothing to do with race or continent of origin.

There is admittedly a fair amount of resentment against the insistence that Doncic is the most amazing, mind blowing prospect ever by those inclined to such hype, especially when closer examination reveals there is no merit to that beyond the hyperbole, whatever his actual potential may be.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I have no idea who you are talking about so I guess it comes down to interpretation.

Would it help if I just apologized on the term "slappy" and go to "Unwise"

The point is the same and I just used the most recent example of over emphasizing stats I could think of. If you only look at numbers on paper and not at the talent you are going to be "unwise" or just find yourself a few years later on the wrong side of that arguement.

So sincerely...and I 100% mean this because I don't want to make this about 1 word and not the point...I apologize for the term "slappy".

Done.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

How should I characterize "Great white hype?"

A white Euro, with a flashy you tube reel, Unicorn of a player. I think he gets overhyped, do to being white, making him stick out more. I am team get a big or Young

 

[Chris_Sanders]

A white Euro, with a flashy you tube reel, Unicorn of a player. I think he gets overhyped, do to being white, making him stick out more. I am team get a big or Young

The Doncic supporters around here are being very disingenuous about this. Nobody is casting aspersions on him for being white or European... not even the "great white hype" comment of earlier. Virtually all the skepticism/criticism I have seen is centered around Doncic being overrated and overhyped, mostly because he is lacking elite athletic ability, he has succeeded in an inferior league against lower quality competition, and his skillset in that setting quite possibly will not translate playing against the superior athletes in the NBA.

The only element where race/nationality has entered is in the belief that many of his supporters are insistent on overlooking his flaws because they either have an agenda to support a "white" star or a European star. That assumption may be overblown, but I think there is also a grain of truth in it for some of the harder core support he is receiving.

Recall when the Suns were rumored to be trying to trade for a disgruntled Porzingis at the beginning of the season - it was greeted with universal excitement here by EVERYONE. NOBODY said "yuck - Porzingis, white, Euro, overrated - no thanks." And I daresay that would be the exact same response if the Suns were potentially trading for Porzingis today (injury notwithstanding). And that's because we all know that Porzingis isn't overrated or overhyped. Nothing to do with race or continent of origin.

There is admittedly a fair amount of resentment against the insistence that Doncic is the most amazing, mind blowing prospect ever by those inclined to such hype, especially when closer examination reveals there is no merit to that beyond the hyperbole, whatever his actual potential may be.

I don't care if Doncic is a green martian. He is an elite passer and I think it is a skill set the Suns are sorely missing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

A white Euro, with a flashy you tube reel, Unicorn of a player. I think he gets overhyped, do to being white, making him stick out more. I am team get a big or Young

But throwing the word "white" in there doesn't really help your case and gets us distracted. I don't think most people care about whether he is white or not, whether they love him or hate him. I don't think you dislike him because he is white since you have a great pic of TC in your avatar.

He is more hyped for his youth than his skin color. I get the flashy game thing. That isn't typical of Euros so when they get an 18 year old that plays with that kind of passion and flair, Euro fans are going to go gaga over it.

He has skills, he has some great flair for the game, he has a high bball IQ, he has a little of Jason Williams in him (hopefully he doesn't have the THC in him that White Chocolate did).

I am pretty confident that the Suns will not make a mistake with him. Kokoskov knows the NBA wants to win. He coached this kid. He knows what he is like on the court and in the locker room. His judgment on him will be better than mine.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

But throwing the word "white" in there doesn't really help your case and gets us distracted. I don't think most people care about whether he is white or not, whether they love him or hate him. I don't think you dislike him because he is white since you have a great pic of TC in your avatar.

He is more hyped for his youth than his skin color. I get the flashy game thing. That isn't typical of Euros so when they get an 18 year old that plays with that kind of passion and flair, Euro fans are going to go gaga over it.

He has skills, he has some great flair for the game, he has a high bball IQ, he has a little of Jason Williams in him (hopefully he doesn't have the THC in him that White Chocolate did).

I am pretty confident that the Suns will not make a mistake with him. Kokoskov knows the NBA wants to win. He coached this kid. He knows what he is like on the court and in the locker room. His judgment on him will be better than mine.

This team has just burned me with garbage Euro players, I just don't see him dominating the NBA, he will get good, but not all star good.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This team has just burned me with garbage Euro players, I just don't see him dominating the NBA, he will get good, but not all star good.

Len. But he played at Maryland. And Bender. Who else is a garbage European player that we drafted? Dragic? Just trying to get an exact sense of your frustration here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This team has just burned me with garbage Euro players, I just don't see him dominating the NBA, he will get good, but not all star good.

I wouldn't count Len as a Euro player, a couple of years of NCAA ball puts him on display for scouts and familiarizes him with the style played here. So, to me, we're talking about one garbage Euro player, Bender. And that same year we drafted another high pick, a garbage NCAA player.

My only concern is that the style of play internationally differs from our game and for that reason and others it becomes more of a challenge to analyze and project a player to the next level. I worry about Doncic, but our new coach knows him well so I feel confident that we either won't take him or we very well should.

 

[GatorAZ]

But throwing the word "white" in there doesn't really help your case and gets us distracted. I don't think most people care about whether he is white or not, whether they love him or hate him. I don't think you dislike him because he is white since you have a great pic of TC in your avatar.

He is more hyped for his youth than his skin color. I get the flashy game thing. That isn't typical of Euros so when they get an 18 year old that plays with that kind of passion and flair, Euro fans are going to go gaga over it.

He has skills, he has some great flair for the game, he has a high bball IQ, he has a little of Jason Williams in him (hopefully he doesn't have the THC in him that White Chocolate did).

I am pretty confident that the Suns will not make a mistake with him. Kokoskov knows the NBA wants to win. He coached this kid. He knows what he is like on the court and in the locker room. His judgment on him will be better than mine.

Igor not only knows him but he’s been in the NBA for nearly 20 years. He’s coached Billups, Nash, Kyrie who are all very different PG’s. Having Kokoskov on board definitely makes more optimistic about Doncic.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Igor not only knows him but he’s been in the NBA for nearly 20 years. He’s coached Billups, Nash, Kyrie who are all very different PG’s. Having Kokoskov on board definitely makes more optimistic about Doncic.

Not sure what you mean here. Having Kokoskov makes you more optimistic that Doncic is a good player? Or more optimistic that the Suns have the info they need to make a good decision on whether or not to draft Doncic. I would agree with the second, not the first.

 

[GatorAZ]

Not sure what you mean here. Having Kokoskov makes you more optimistic that Doncic is a good player? Or more optimistic that the Suns have the info they need to make a good decision on whether or not to draft Doncic. I would agree with the second, not the first.

If he ends up a Sun.

 

[rocker]

highest floor in the draft who just went for 4/2/4 in a game?

How did LeBron played last game? 5/16 for two and 0/5 for three? The best player in NBA. Hm, I don't think you can judge the player after a single match....

 

[SirStefan32]

And not just at his age since this is the first triple double in 11 years. Why? Because Europe doesn't score assists like they do here. No steps. No transitition. No pump fakes.

Just did the ball go in the hoop immediately after the pass. Basically consider 1.5x the amount than here.

Now put in perspective he did something not done in 11 years in 22 minutes of play at 18.

Highest Floor in the draft.

At worst he is Dragic

It's even worse than that. They count "intent", oddly enough. Should a player look to see if someone is more open before they shoot, there is no assist for the player who passed it to him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How did LeBron played last game? 5/16 for two and 0/5 for three? The best player in NBA. Hm, I don't think you can judge the player after a single match....

And yet in his worst game of the playoffs LeBron still put up 15/7/4 and two blocks, which is a far cry from 4/2/4. And forgive me here, but that wasn’t the first massive stink job Doncic’s put up in the playoffs, has he?

When you’re the “best player” in the league, having multiple complete and utter no shows tells me the league is suspect talent wise, which has always been one of arguments against the Doncic can do no wrong train of thought.

 

[JCSunsfan]

These playoffs will be interesting for Doncic. It seems teams are able to shut him down with some effort.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And yet in his worst game of the playoffs LeBron still put up 15/7/4 and two blocks, which is a far cry from 4/2/4. And forgive me here, but that wasn’t the first massive stink job Doncic’s put up in the playoffs, has he?

When you’re the “best player” in the league, having multiple complete and utter no shows tells me the league is suspect talent wise, which has always been one of arguments against the Doncic can do no wrong train of thought.

Kinda lame. Most of the top draft picks had more than one stinker through the NCAA season and many of them did so in the tourney, the closest thing to the euro playoffs. Remember, Doncic is 18-19. He’s the equivalent of a freshman in college.

And I think lebron’s line, considering he’s a 10+ year nba pro, multiple time nba champion, and multiple time mvp is equivalent to doncic’s line.

Some of you are holding Doncic to an unrealistic level of scrutiny. And it’s inconsistent with the level of scrutiny you’re holding other prospects to.