Don't Trade JJ

[Chaplin]

There's still no way I'll advocate drafting Igoudala, regardless of whether we trade Shawn or not.

My pick: BIG, BIG, BIG!

 

[George O'Brien]

There's still no way I'll advocate drafting Igoudala, regardless of whether we trade Shawn or not.

My pick: BIG, BIG, BIG!

If they can play.

I'm guessing that Okafor, Howard, and Biedrins will go in the first six picks. I'm not sure any of the rest of the bigs are going to do more than be spectators for a few years.

Big is not enough. Cezary Trybanski is big.

 

[Joe Mama]

If they can play.

I'm guessing that Okafor, Howard, and Biedrins will go in the first six picks. I'm not sure any of the rest of the bigs are going to do more than be spectators for a few years.

Big is not enough. Cezary Trybanski is big.

Exactly. If there are two players that the Phoenix Suns like, and one of them is a big men they should probably go with him if it's a close call. Quality big man are more valuable than equally talented smaller players. I would much rather have a Richard Jefferson type player than a Jake Tsakalidis type player though.

Joe Mama

 

[hcsilla]

Wakeup people! Tracy McGrady would be doing the same thing as Kobe Bryant if he was playing on that Lakers team.

Maybe, maybe not. You make it sound like O'Neal is an unstoppable force and Bryant just comes along for the ride. The Lakers, particularly this year, have needed Bryant to play his best. Could McGrady match that? Possibly, but it's hardly a foregone conclusion.

I agree moreover I would go further.

Kobe Bryant IS a better player than Tracy McGrady. Pure and simple.

Bryant is stronger, a better defender, decision-maker and clutch-shooter.

 

[George O'Brien]

I agree moreover I would go further.

Kobe Bryant IS a better player than Tracy McGrady. Pure and simple.

Bryant is stronger, a better defender, decision-maker and clutch-shooter.

Besides, he can be a free agent and T-Mac can't (at least not yet).

 

[Joe Mama]

I agree moreover I would go further.

Kobe Bryant IS a better player than Tracy McGrady. Pure and simple.

Bryant is stronger, a better defender, decision-maker and clutch-shooter.

I'm sorry, but if Kobe Bryant is actually stronger than Tracy McGrady the difference is negligible. Kobe Bryant may be a better defender now, but I would like to see what McGrady could do defensively if he had a guy like Shaquille O'Neal behind him in the paint, and he wasn't expected to carry the entire offensive load. Kobe Bryant is a clutch player, but again, we haven't had a chance to see what McGrady would do in the same situation.

It is not a foregone conclusion that McGrady would play as well as Kobe Bryant, but it is certainly not a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't. Just take a look at the Lakers without Shaquille O'Neal. They aren't a very good basketball team. With Shaquille O'Neal and without Kobe Bryant they have fared much better.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I'm sorry, but if Kobe Bryant is actually stronger than Tracy McGrady the difference is negligible. Kobe Bryant may be a better defender now, but I would like to see what McGrady could do defensively if he had a guy like Shaquille O'Neal behind him in the paint, and he wasn't expected to carry the entire offensive load. Kobe Bryant is a clutch player, but again, we haven't had a chance to see what McGrady would do in the same situation.

It is not a foregone conclusion that McGrady would play as well as Kobe Bryant, but it is certainly not a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't. Just take a look at the Lakers without Shaquille O'Neal. They aren't a very good basketball team. With Shaquille O'Neal and without Kobe Bryant they have fared much better.

Joe Mama

You have some points, and I agree that TMAC/Shaq could be just as good. However, we DO know that Kobe will and can do all that, and we are assuming that McGrady will be able to also.

Kobe has to get points for being the player who has already done it all. It is like comparing potential based players versus college players in the draft. (Well, not that big of a diff, but you get the point)

 

[Cheesebeef]

there is no one in this league that matches Bryant's intensity, will to win and assassin like poise at the end of games - anyone remember the game this season where McGrady put up like 38 points on the Lakers through three quarters - then Kobe locked his ass up and dropped 25 points on him the 4th to come back from 18 points down? Or again - when the Lakers pplayed at Orlando earlier this year when the Magic had a 18 point lead and again Tracy couldn't hit a clutch shot at the end of the game to save his life and the Magic lost again to the Lakers - and Kobe wasn't even playing that game.

Don't get me wrong - Tracy is a top five player and I would be pysched to get him if we don't get Kobe - but Kobe has something that Tracy hasn't shown yet - the absolute will to be the best, take the heat, take the big shot and make it.

 

[Joe Mama]

there is no one in this league that matches Bryant's intensity, will to win and assassin like poise at the end of games - anyone remember the game this season where McGrady put up like 38 points on the Lakers through three quarters - then Kobe locked his ass up and dropped 25 points on him the 4th to come back from 18 points down? Or again - when the Lakers pplayed at Orlando earlier this year when the Magic had a 18 point lead and again Tracy couldn't hit a clutch shot at the end of the game to save his life and the Magic lost again to the Lakers - and Kobe wasn't even playing that game.

Don't get me wrong - Tracy is a top five player and I would be pysched to get him if we don't get Kobe - but Kobe has something that Tracy hasn't shown yet - the absolute will to be the best, take the heat, take the big shot and make it.

what has Phil Jackson said about Kobe Bryant? He said that Kobe Bryant likes to coast along, so he can turn it on at the end of the game and be the big hero. The fact that the Orlando Magic were ever up by 18 against the Lakers should tell you how good Tracy McGrady is.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

what has Phil Jackson said about Kobe Bryant? He said that Kobe Bryant likes to coast along, so he can turn it on at the end of the game and be the big hero.

Come on, Joe Mama. You can't accept Jackson's assessment of Bryant at face value. He clearly has a major agenda whenever he talks about his young star -- specifically, to make sure that the coach's image as the wizard behind the curtain remains fixed in the media's eye.

 

[Joe Mama]

what has Phil Jackson said about Kobe Bryant? He said that Kobe Bryant likes to coast along, so he can turn it on at the end of the game and be the big hero.

Come on, Joe Mama. You can't accept Jackson's assessment of Bryant at face value. He clearly has a major agenda whenever he talks about his young star -- specifically, to make sure that the coach's image as the wizard behind the curtain remains fixed in the media's eye.

a few months ago I blew off Jackson's comments, but the more I watch Kobe Bryant the more I believe there may be some validity to what he said. I don't believe Kobe Bryant intentionally tanks games, so he can pull them out in the end as a hero. However I do think that he may not give his best effort for the entire game. I'm really not trying to knock Kobe Bryant about his fourth-quarter performances. I'm just trying to say that it is better to look at these guys from start to finish instead of getting worked up about the fourth-quarter.

Joe Mama

 

[Cheesebeef]

a few months ago I blew off Jackson's comments, but the more I watch Kobe Bryant the more I believe there may be some validity to what he said. I don't believe Kobe Bryant intentionally tanks games, so he can pull them out in the end as a hero. However I do think that he may not give his best effort for the entire game. I'm really not trying to knock Kobe Bryant about his fourth-quarter performances. I'm just trying to say that it is better to look at these guys from start to finish instead of getting worked up about the fourth-quarter.

Joe Mama

Joe - I unfortunately have watched every single Laker game for the last 7 years living in southern California - and if there's one thing that is an absolute constant - it's Kobe Bryant giving it his absolute all every second he's on the court - no one on that team works as hard as Kobe does night in and night out. The ONLY time I have ever seen Kobe take anything off was that childish performance by him in that Sacto game late this year - and he was making a statement - albeit a VERY poor one - but other than that - that kid brings it as hard as anyone I've seen play since MJ.

 

[sly fly]

a few months ago I blew off Jackson's comments, but the more I watch Kobe Bryant the more I believe there may be some validity to what he said. I don't believe Kobe Bryant intentionally tanks games, so he can pull them out in the end as a hero. However I do think that he may not give his best effort for the entire game. I'm really not trying to knock Kobe Bryant about his fourth-quarter performances. I'm just trying to say that it is better to look at these guys from start to finish instead of getting worked up about the fourth-quarter.

Joe Mama

That's outlandish. Kobe Bryant busts his butt more than anybody else out there. If you want to point out a player who doesn't play 48 minutes, then you better look a Shaq.

Kobe's out there trying to pacify his crybaby teammates.

Kobe is a superstar basketball player. He didn't get this good by going limp 3 quarters of a game.

If I were one of Kobe's teammates, I'd be embarrassed gravy-training off him like they do.

 

[Chaplin]

a few months ago I blew off Jackson's comments, but the more I watch Kobe Bryant the more I believe there may be some validity to what he said. I don't believe Kobe Bryant intentionally tanks games, so he can pull them out in the end as a hero. However I do think that he may not give his best effort for the entire game. I'm really not trying to knock Kobe Bryant about his fourth-quarter performances. I'm just trying to say that it is better to look at these guys from start to finish instead of getting worked up about the fourth-quarter.

Joe Mama

Honest question:

Are you just saying it like you see it, or are you trying to justify to yourself perhaps NOT wanting the Suns to pursue him?

 

[Joe Mama]

You guys make a very good points. I watch a lot of basketball, but I obviously haven't seen as much Kobe Bryant and the Lakers as CheeseBeef or perhaps sly fly. If you guys say he busts his butt the entire game every time I'll take your words for it. I was wondering why he always seems to play twice as well in the fourth quarter. Obviously it isn't because everyone else always stinks in the fourth quarter while he maintains a consistent level of play. However your explanation of him trying to involve his teammates and carry them through the first three quarters does make some sense.

Honest question:

Are you just saying it like you see it, or are you trying to justify to yourself perhaps NOT wanting the Suns to pursue him?

no, I brought this up mostly because I was wondering why he is always able to turn it up in the fourth quarter. One possible answer is that he does not give his best effort the entire game and waits until the fourth quarter to really pour it on. . I don't need to justify not wanting the Suns to pursue Kobe Bryant. I would be happy with him or Tracy McGrady (in a reasonable trade with a very thorough physical before hand).

I do still stand by my original point here though. That is that it is very, very difficult to compare Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant because they are in completely different situations. If Tim Duncan and McGrady had signed together in Orlando it would be a much more fair comparison.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

no, I brought this up mostly because I was wondering why he is always able to turn it up in the fourth quarter. One possible answer is that he does not give his best effort the entire game and waits until the fourth quarter to really pour it on. .

I watch most likely as much as Bryant as you, and my take is he just seems to have another gear when he needs it. It is physically impossible to play at the level he does in the 4th sometimes for an entire game. I am amazed he can play as well as he does for so long right now. I think that he realizes that his job is to make sure the Lakers are in a position to win the entire game, and then seal it up in the closing seconds.

If he were trying so hard the entire game, he might not have enough left in teh 4th to fend off a late run. To prove he does try hard the entire game, I would point to those very high scoring games he has had the past couple years through 3 quarters. Hasn't he hit or nearly hit 50 in 3 quarters before??


Anyways, I attribute Kobe's energy levels to his basketball IQ, not a desire to be the hero. One thing you never have to worry about is Kobe coming out on fire, and dissapearing after halftime.

 

[George O'Brien]

Kobe averaged 37.4 minutes per game this season and 41.5 minutes last season. He hasn't played less than 40 minutes a game since March. It would be surprising if he didn't pace himself, but I suspect that Kobe at half speed is better than Kareem Rush playing flat out.