Draft Pick Watch

[SunsTzu]

Really? When he was getting some minutes at the 4 in Miami and Minny he was doing between 15-19ppg, and getting 6rpg or so. Its not what you want from a #2 pick, but its far from terrible.

He played SF next to Kevin Love in MIN when he put up 19ppg and that team was terrible.

Also the Suns did play him plenty at the 4 shortly after he was taken out of the starting line-up and he still could do nothing with his opportunity.

So far this is Beasley's worst year by far, so that should tell us the Suns are using him wrong in some way.

I don't know the T-Wolves were better when they stopped playing him, I think the Suns have started to figure that out and are now using him properly.

 

[Errntknght]

Ok. Portland is winning at a .556 clip. If .556 is the winning percentage it will take to get into the playoffs, rounding down, it will take 45 wins.

The Lakers will have to go 31-15 from this point to get there. That's if the teams in the 5-8 slots don't melt down.

BTW, nbadraft.net is showing the Laker's pick in the lottery and belonging to the Suns. Nothing we didn't know already, but a week ago they were still showing it as belonging to the Lakers.

The biggest news from Tinseltown is that Jordan Hill is out for the year. Even with that news LA's boxscore from last nights is kind of scary - they got whacked pretty good by OKC but guess what, the Lakers 3 worst performers were MWP, Nash and Kobe. Their 3 bigs - Earl Clark, Jamison and Robert Sacre - were not bad and the rest of the bench players were in + territory!

You know that guys like Nash, Kobe and MWP are not going to stay down if they see any light at the end of the tunnel. If they look at that box score they should see a glimmer. Yeah, they aren't going to be challenging OKC any day soon but there's a lot of teams they could beat with an effort like that. Screw Pau Gasol, send him home so he doesn't contaminate the team any more than he has already. Let Howard rehab as long as he needs.

They'll have to aim a little lower but after everyone has written them out of the playoffs, they could find the motivation to bust their collective butt to make it. Blake's coming back and Howard is, too - reinforcements are within sight.

I wouldn't say they were odds on favorites to make the playoffs but I wouldn't be shocked if they started to play like a team and stopped beating themselves - and gave it good run. With Jordan Hill healthy their odds would be better.

 

[Errntknght]

New Orleans is on a 4 game winning streak and they're essentially tied with us. On a slightly sour note, Dallas schedule is even tougher than ours is so they will be making a run at our draft slot. At the end of the month we have a home and home with them so we can duke out with them directly.

As far as 'our' other draft pick goes. The Lakers play 8 more games against top teams (Miami -1, Spurs -1, OKC -2, Clips -2, Memphis -2; 5 home, OKC, Clips & Memphis 1 away each.)
They play six games against their competition for the 8th slot: Portland & GSW both home and away, @Denver and Houston at home.)
They play ten games against EC playoff teams. 6 away and 4 at home.
The rest of their games are against the dregs of both leagues - including 3 games against the Suns.
They have 21 losses now and to finish 46-36 they can tolerate 15 more losses. (If they beat Portland twice they can probably afford 17 more.)
The way I'm looking at it they can afford to go 1-7 against the top teams;
3-3 against their competition and 6-4 against the EC playoff teams. That gives them 14 losses so they can afford 1 loss to one of the dregs in 22 games.

I don't know where people were getting their numbers that said LA could only tolerate ten more total losses - this looks pretty clear cut to me. It also doesn't look impossible to me though, granted they will have play much better than they have so far. The hardest part is to go 21-1 against the non-playoff teams.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I heard some of this in one of our games (or pregame shows) recently, the last time we selected a player for ourselves in the first 8 slots was Tim Perry in 1988. We have 2 guys that we took number 9, Amare and Marion, and we gave away the 7th pick Luol Deng. Regardless, we're going to be picking in territory we've not seen in a long time.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I heard some of this in one of our games (or pregame shows) recently, the last time we selected a player for ourselves in the first 8 slots was Tim Perry in 1988. We have 2 guys that we took number 9, Amare and Marion, and we gave away the 7th pick Luol Deng. Regardless, we're going to be picking in territory we've not seen in a long time.

Steve

Trading that pick is a real sore spot for me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Trading that pick is a real sore spot for me.

I don't like giving away draft picks ever but that one was an obscenity.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't like giving away draft picks ever but that one was an obscenity.

Steve

That choice was all DAntoni.

 

[elindholm]

Trading that pick is a real sore spot for me.

I think I remember hearing that the only player the Suns were interested in was Iguodala, and they convinced themselves that he would be gone by #7 (although in fact he went #9). In any case, trading the pick before seeing who was on the board -- and having seriously looked at only one player in the projected top ten -- were both indefensibly stupid.

Edit: Incidentally, Telfair went #13 in that same draft, which I had completely forgotten.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think I remember hearing that the only player the Suns were interested in was Iguodala, and they convinced himself that he would be gone by #7 (although in fact he went #9). In any case, trading the pick before seeing who was on the board -- and having seriously looked at only one player in the projected top ten -- were both indefensibly stupid.

Even if they weren't interested in a player in that draft, they should have made an effort to move it for a future pick or two. Just selling it makes it appear that it wasn't that draft they were uninterested in, it was drafts in general and that's very shortsighted on their part.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Even if they weren't interested in a player in that draft, they should have made an effort to move it for a future pick or two. Just selling it makes it appear that it wasn't that draft they were uninterested in, it was drafts in general and that's very shortsighted on their part.

Steve

I thought they did swap it for a future pick. They swapped Chicago, for the next years pick. Then Chicago greatly improved, the pick was near the end of the 1st round and they sold the pick.

 

[BC867]

That choice was all DAntoni.

And his famous quote that it wasn't his job to develop young players. How any GM could hire him after that is beyond me.

I guess that is why he was hired for the two largest markets in the country, where they are less patient for a championship (even though the Knicks haven't won one in 40 years).

 

[Errntknght]

I'm pretty sure the Suns got the Bulls second round pick as well - how can you forget the 'Sausage King' (the guy we drafted with that 2nd round pick).

 

[Gaddabout]

21st Century Suns = 20th Century Clippers.

Yay.

 

[hcsilla]

I'm pretty sure the Suns got the Bulls second round pick as well - how can you forget the 'Sausage King' (the guy we drafted with that 2nd round pick).

Yes, it was #7 for #32 (Jackson Vroman) and Bulls next year's 1st rounder what turned to be #21 (Nate Robinson) and got traded immediately together with Quentin Richardson for Kurt Thomas.

 

[damo]

The suns drafted Deng and flipped him for Jackson Vroman and a future first, which became Nate Robinson, who was then flipped alongside Quentin Richardson to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas. Kurt Thomas was then sent to Seatlle with picks which became Serge Ibaka and Quincy Pondexter, for which we received a trade exception. Long story short, last time we drafted that high, we got a trade exception.

 

[Phrazbit]

We should have taken Iggy with that pick, he was right there and there was a lot of speculation its what we would do. Guy would have been an amazing addition to SSOL. A guard/forward who can fly up and down the court, passes well and can defend the perimeter. Really bothered me (especially as a UofA fan) that we didnt draft him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I thought they did swap it for a future pick. They swapped Chicago, for the next years pick. Then Chicago greatly improved, the pick was near the end of the 1st round and they sold the pick.

You're right, I'd forgotten about the return pick and Chicago improving made it very forgettable.

Steve

 

[SunsTzu]

Part of the motivation in trading the pick in addition to assuming the player they wanted would be gone was that it opened up additional cap space. Of course in retrospect there were better uses for that cap space than Q.

FWIW that Chicago pick looked like it was going to be a better pick as well. They had been consistently bad the previous years and they started off terribly that season, but just like the Lakers pick this year it shows you can't take things for granted.

 

[Griffin]

Part of the motivation in trading the pick in addition to assuming the player they wanted would be gone was that it opened up additional cap space.

It was really dumb of them to assume anything and not wait until their pick actually came up before making the trade. Remember how GS almost traded their Curry pick to the Suns for Amare only to take it back when Curry was still on the board? But in 2004 the Suns were already more concerned about avoiding having to pay rookie-scale salary to a mid-lottery pick who wasn't going to contribute much right away.

FWIW that Chicago pick looked like it was going to be a better pick as well.

I never liked that argument, because the only pick that would have been better would be a top-6 pick, and the odds of any team getting a top-6 pick, even a team projected to be pretty bad, is still pretty low. So, statistically, it was rather unlikely that that pick would ever improve. But again, I don't think the Suns management really cared. A high pick means high rookie-scale salary to a player who is several years from really contributing, and the Suns didn't really build for the future back then.

 

[SunsTzu]

It was really dumb of them to assume anything and not wait until their pick actually came up before making the trade. Remember how GS almost traded their Curry pick to the Suns for Amare only to take it back when Curry was still on the board? But in 2004 the Suns were already more concerned about avoiding having to pay rookie-scale salary to a mid-lottery pick who wasn't going to contribute much right away.

They weren't concerned about paying rookie scale because it was too much money, they were concerned with having the most cap space available in a very strong FA class. I won't argue the stupidity of assuming the player you want will be gone and trading the pick prematurely.

I never liked that argument, because the only pick that would have been better would be a top-6 pick, and the odds of any team getting a top-6 pick, even a team projected to be pretty bad, is still pretty low. So, statistically, it was rather unlikely that that pick would ever improve. But again, I don't think the Suns management really cared. A high pick means high rookie-scale salary to a player who is several years from really contributing, and the Suns didn't really build for the future back then.

1st, 4th, 4th, 2nd, 7th, 3rd. Those were the draft slots for the Bulls following MJ's retirement up to 2004. That team was a train wreck and started the year 0-9. It didn't pan out but obviously but it seemed like a risk worth taking at the time and I think to say otherwise is only with the benefit of hindsight. I'd gladly take a similar risk this year with a team like the Kings depending on where the Suns and LAL picks turnout.

edit: also after giving the Suns the 21st pick in 2005 they went on to pick 2nd, 9th, 1st the following 3 years.

 

[PhxGametime]

I was considered one of the original Sarver haters because of that Trade, on this mb. Lol. Iguodala is my favorite U of A Draft Pick, though they've had many!

I remember wanting the Suns to Trade up and I started the he'll never be there camp heh.

I don't hate Sarver, may have a temper... But I posted on this board that'd the Suns would go 78-4 that year.

Next year will be interesting: Dragic, Gortat, Dudley, and a high Draft choice on a SG or PF; and FA/Trade, the Suns could improve drastically?? I like Goodwin, Muhammad, McLemore, and Porter as possible additions. Tucker, Scola, Brown, Morris, Frye, Beasley, Marshall, etc. (and whichever of FA's return) on cheap contracts, making a package available for star/semi-star, makes some sense - pinpointing that player for our management is (hopefully) the reason they make the big bucks.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If its any consolation, I think Lakers fans are going to look at the Steve Nash trade in a similar light.

I know we rip Babby for the Dragic/Brooks trade, but what he got for a FA Nash is pulling a rabbit out of a hat (knock on wood).

 

[Folster]

Go Cleveland... tonight! It's much more fun to root against the Lakers than root for the Suns this year.

 

[Errntknght]

This is a must win game for the Lakers, as will be every game against the weak willies of the league from this point on. Of course, it ought to be an easy win since the Cavs are lacking Varejao. Teams do lose easy games when the opps play better than anticipated but I expect the Lakers to show some hunger in this one.

 

[SunsTzu]

It's in the Cavs best interest to lose as it increases their chances of swapping the Heat pick with the Lakers pick and increases their own lottery odds.