Draft Prospects thread

[panfolk]

Celtics fans are actually entertaining Durant to Phoenix scenarios.

Of course some of them think Durant is worth Marion, Barbosa and #4 while we get Ratliff, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes and Brian Scalabrine.

I could live with that as well.

To be frank, I don't trust my own judgment when it comes to scouting players. A lot of times I've been really impressed with guys only to find no one likes them and have not been impressed with guys who are drafted high and do well. That's why I look for a consensus of opinions as w closer to draft day.

I know how you feel. I was sure Turiaf would be a good player after watching Gonzaga in the tournament in his last year.

 

[azirish]

I'm not convinced Durant is worth quite THAT much.

First, Barbosa has a BASE YEAR CONTRACT.

Second, by asking for Marion and the #4 along with Barbosa, the Celtics would get three impact players for one possible super star. I like Gomes, but he's 6'7" and not a super athlete. West is PG who averages 4.4 assists per game and shoots 42.7%.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese,

I wonder if there is anyone who has been on this board a while you haven't abused. Do you have serious problems at home or are you just too imature to act like a civilized human being?

sorry George - I just call a spade a spade. And I keep EVERYTHING basketball related, not resorting to the ridiculousness of hypothesizing about someone's life off... ah forget it. I've got no problem with someone completely calling my basketball idea stupid (some of them are) because everything is subjective but if I've pushed you so far as to start getting REALLY personal with the above drivel, I'll back off and simply say, again, I just think your opinion on the matter of Hibbert possibly being picked above Horford is incredibly ridiculous, as were you're supporting reasons backing up such a ludicrous opinion, that's all. If that's abuse, well, then I'm sorry, but if you're going to post things that I believe to be ludicrous, I'm going to call them as such.

but no hard feelings here. I never understood people getting so upset when their opinion on a subjective matter is decried "stupid" or "ridiculous". IMO, an opinion on anything subjective isn't indicative of what I think of the person as a whole. just because I think an opinion about something basketball related doesn't mean I think the person as a wholeis stupid and I would think someone who is secure would be able to come to terms with that and understand and be able to separate one from the other. People have called me insane on all sorts of sports-related issues - that doesn't mean I feel abused. Now, if they start talking about my home-life or something, well then that says something about the person, but someone strongly disagrees with a sports-idea I have? Big deal. It's freaking basketball and we have no control over it anyway. Why you would feel ABUSED because someone strongly disagrees with an opinion that really has no bearing on anything in the real world is beyond me. Do you really take yourself that seriously? I sure as hell don't.

 

[msdundee]

Well, uh, everyone DID see your post on another thread where you said his opinion on a different subject was "freaking ********" and then followed that up by saying it was "par for the course for you" .............. just one of many similar.

 

[arthurracoon]

you know what will be really depressing...

if atlanta ends up with the #3 pick in the draft, and we dont get a top pick.

 

[sunsfn]

Celtics fans are actually entertaining Durant to Phoenix scenarios.

Of course some of them think Durant is worth Marion, Barbosa and #4 while we get Ratliff, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes and Brian Scalabrine.

The suns would be giving the Celtics 3 starters with that trade, and the suns would be getting back one starter. The 4 players mentioned are all bench players for the suns. West is a sometimes starter for the celtics, but would not start for the suns and may never start for the suns.

This trade would never be done by the suns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

upon further thought, I apologize to George for using the term "stupid" to describe the notion that Hibbert could possibly be taken above Horford. "Stupid" is a bit pointed. So I apologize for that. But I still think that notion is absurd.

now back to your regularly scheduled programming!

 

[slinslin]

Barbosa is not a starter and never will be or we are in trouble.

 

[sunsfn]

Barbosa is not a starter and never will be or we are in trouble.

He is not a starter, you are right.
However, he is very valuable to this team and is better than west by far! The celtics may start hm because he is better than what they have.

 

[slinslin]

And Durant is going to be way better than Marion...

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I would not give up Barbosa in that BOS trade, period. I'd quicker give up Bell, but in no way do I want that to happen. If we trade with BOS, it's for a luxury, not a dire need. So, we offer Marion/#4 for Ratliff/#2 and nothing else. Take it, leave it, I don't care....

 

[hafey]

I completely agree.

 

[azirish]

upon further thought, I apologize to George for using the term "stupid" to describe the notion that Hibbert could possibly be taken above Horford. "Stupid" is a bit pointed. So I apologize for that. But I still think that notion is absurd.

now back to your regularly scheduled programming!

I'll accept your apology and I apologize for making comments about your personal life.

As for your opinion about the absurdity of the idea, I just don't see why. I'll admit it is unlikely it would go that way, but unless these mocks are just totally off base, hardly absurd.

How absurd is absurd? In 2004 the Raptors took Araujo with the 8th pick. That wasn't an exceptional draft, but they passed on Iguodala, Biedrins, Robert Smith, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Kevin Martin, Chris Duhon to name a few.

What is worse, it was pretty clear to many people that Araujo was not much of a prospect:

Weaknesses: Araujo is not a solid defensive player. Never known to be a shotblocker, Araujo will have to learn how to “play defense.” In college Araujo never established himself as a shotblocker or shut down defenders and the same will be found in the League…His lack of athletic ability and quickness make him a liability on the perimeter against more gifted and agile post players. Furthermore, his aggressiveness on the glass causes him to get into foul trouble often, although he improved on that in his senior year. His jumper and ball handling are below par….At 23, his upside may be questioned.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/rafaelaraujo.asp

Let's face it, most teams drafting in the early lottery are there for a reason - they make lots of blunders. I don't think it is totally absurd to hope they will keep doing so.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'll accept your apology and I apologize for making comments about your personal life.

As for your opinion about the absurdity of the idea, I just don't see why. I'll admit it is unlikely it would go that way, but unless these mocks are just totally off base, hardly absurd.

How absurd is absurd? In 2004 the Raptors took Araujo with the 8th pick. That wasn't an exceptional draft, but they passed on Iguodala, Biedrins, Robert Smith, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Kevin Martin, Chris Duhon to name a few.

What is worse, it was pretty clear to many people that Araujo was not much of a prospect: http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/rafaelaraujo.asp

Let's face it, most teams drafting in the early lottery are there for a reason - they make lots of blunders. I don't think it is totally absurd to hope they will keep doing so.

George, the main reason I think it's really out there (I won't even use the other word because "absurd" is inflammatory as well) is that the examples you keep giving - Bradley, Armstrong, Arrujo, etc, etc. were all taken 8 or lower - and that's definitely where Hibbert is going to land - latish lotto - and I've got no qualms about that, but he ain't ending up anywhere near top 4 or 5 which is where Horford is going. My claim wasn't about Hibbert going in the lotto at all was out there - it was the notion that somehow he could end up going before Horford - that I - and I think almost everyone who has watched/covered college basketball or speculated on the draft agrees with.

 

[azirish]

If you want to say "unlikely", then just say "unlikely".

If you don't like my mid lottery examples of bigs being taken far ahead of where they should have, how about Darko at #2 in 2003? He's finally looking like he might be able to play, but to pass on Anthony, Bosh, Wade, Kaman, and Hinrich... Jeesh.

Admittedly, it seemed like everyone was overwhelmed by Darko's potential and he did end up playing for the worst possible coach he could. Still, it was a huge blunder in that draft.

You'd think that teams would learn from the past, but the dream of finding the next great seven footer is never going away. As long as the Suns don't get suckered into it, I'm all for teams making the reach.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If you want to say "unlikely", then just say "unlikely".

If you don't like my mid lottery examples of bigs being taken far ahead of where they should have, how about Darko at #2 in 2003? He's finally looking like he might be able to play, but to pass on Anthony, Bosh, Wade, Kaman, and Hinrich... Jeesh.

Admittedly, it seemed like everyone was overwhelmed by Darko's potential and he did end up playing for the worst possible coach he could. Still, it was a huge blunder in that draft.

You'd think that teams would learn from the past, but the dream of finding the next great seven footer is never going away. As long as the Suns don't get suckered into it, I'm all for teams making the reach.

but George, even saying "unlikely" is REALLY OUT THERE IMO because I don't believe there to be any chance possible that Hibbert ends up going before Horford. And the Darko example doesn't hold much water because you're comparing apples to oranges, seeing as that kid was RIDICULOUSLY hyped and it was all about potential, whereas that's not the case with Hibbert, who people have seen play for years. That's why I don't think the above example is applicable also. Bottom line, for me anyways, is that there is absolutely ZERO CHANCE whatsoever that Hibbert goes above Horford. They are both known commodities having played a couple years in college and thus one of them isn't going to leapfrog the other because of the "unknown potential" which is what happened with Darko.

 

[azirish]

but George, even saying "unlikely" is REALLY OUT THERE IMO because I don't believe there to be any chance possible that Hibbert ends up going before Horford. And the Darko example doesn't hold much water because you're comparing apples to oranges, seeing as that kid was RIDICULOUSLY hyped and it was all about potential, whereas that's not the case with Hibbert, who people have seen play for years. That's why I don't think the above example is applicable also. Bottom line, for me anyways, is that there is absolutely ZERO CHANCE whatsoever that Hibbert goes above Horford. They are both known commodities having played a couple years in college and thus one of them isn't going to leapfrog the other because of the "unknown potential" which is what happened with Darko.

Draftexpress has him at #5, behind Horford at #4. http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=585

NCAA Tournament: NBA Draft Stock Watch (Final Four)--Stock Up
April 1, 2007
It was a breakout season and breakout tournament for Georgetown center Roy Hibbert, and even though the Hoyas would fall to Greg Oden and Ohio State this evening, Hibbert put in yet another performance that is sure to keep his stock on the rise. While he was clearly the most dominant player of the East region, Hibbert had yet to face a test from somebody his own size. Before tonight, it was still possible for a skeptic to bring up the fact that he was doing most of his work against 6'8 defenders. But tonight's 19 point performance against Greg Oden should put those doubts to rest once and for all. Hibbert more than held his own, perhaps even outplaying the more hyped freshman by a small margin.

Hibbert was a game-changing force once again, providing not only the shot blocking presence you would expect from a player of his size, but also doing an excellent job of manning up on Oden. Hibbert didn't overextend himself in attempting to block his shots, but rather played solid positional defense and limited the easy looks of his formidable opponent. He did do a good job as a weak-side shot-blocker, swatting one Oden dunk attempt and altering numerous other Buckeye attempts in the lane.

On the offensive end, we got to see just how dramatic the improvement has been over the past year. Hibbert displayed a bit of everything, whether it was the sweeping traditional hook early on, an emphatic spin move conversion on Oden midway through the second half, the 20 foot jumper, or the jump hook that kept Georgetown within striking distance as Ohio State was starting to pull away in the closing minutes. Hibbert did a great job of cutting to the basket early in the game and his teammates did a phenomenal job of finding him as he flashed to holes in the defense. This added several emphatic dunks to Hibbert's point total. It must be said once again that as slow and lumbering as he looks running up and down the court, Hibbert is surprisingly agile on the low block.

Once again, the only people that contained Hibbert didn't suit up for the opponent. For as well as he contested Ohio State at the rim, he still was whistled for ticky-tack fouls early and often. He ended up spending a large chunk of the game on the bench, and this allowed Ohio State to largely dictate tempo. Georgetown's saving grace was that Oden picked up a pair of early fouls as well, but Hibbert's fourth really put the Hoyas in a bind. Foul trouble isn't something that is going to keep Hibbert's draft stock in check, but it is partially responsible for Hibbert's less than attention-grabbing numbers in a tournament where his play was absolutely attention worthy.

All in all, nobody has improved their draft stock more than Roy Hibbert in the 2007 NCAA Tournament. Not only does the 7-footer impress with his improved skill level and feel for the game on an individual basis, but Georgetown is essentially a different team when he is on the court. There probably wasn't an individual more important to his team in March than Hibbert was to Georgetown, and that includes Oden. There is no doubting that Hibbert still has significant work to do on his game, whether it is polishing up the mechanics on his back to the basket game or continuing to improve his open court mobility, but Hibbert's performance is now impossible to ignore. He is a legit NBA center prospect, even before taking into account that he'll be one of the biggest 5-men in the league the moment he steps on the court.

Will Roy Hibbert be selected in the Top 5 of the upcoming draft? First off, he'll have to declare - and this isn't necessarily a given. Secondly, he will have to find the right team, one that emphasizes more of a half-court oriented style of play. The cards will have to fall right in terms of who gets what pick, but it now appears that Hibbert will have to get consideration from just about any slower-paced team drafting outside the Top 2.

 

[mribnik]

I was just watching some video clips of Yi on youtube and that guy is pretty impressive. Granted, every highlight clip is going to look impressive, but at 7 feet, that guy drives to the hoop like a guard. He looks very smooth running the court and handling the ball and appears to have a soft touch around the basket. He also attacks the basket pretty hard.

 

[panfolk]

I would not give up Barbosa in that BOS trade, period. I'd quicker give up Bell, but in no way do I want that to happen. If we trade with BOS, it's for a luxury, not a dire need. So, we offer Marion/#4 for Ratliff/#2 and nothing else. Take it, leave it, I don't care....

Unfortunately we'd have to take on more salary than just Ratliff because Marion makes such a ridiculous ammount. My suggestion earlier was Scalabrine and Gerald Green because I think they COULD work in this system, their salaries fit, and they are not coveted so Boston shouldn't be too concerned about losing them. If we got G. Green to cover larger SGs then I would be ecstatic to keep Barbosa.

It's funny. When I was a casual fan in the 90's I was appalled at the lack of loyalty in the NBA in management, personnel, and fan base though it no longer bothers me now that I follow the team thoroughly. Part of me does want Marion to finish out as a Sun becasue he's homegrown talent, but I realize that his shortcomings may be the straw that broke the camels back come playoff run.

I think the thing that is most appealing about Durant is the gaudy rebounding numbers for someone with his offensive skill.

 

[panfolk]

I was just watching some video clips of Yi on youtube and that guy is pretty impressive. Granted, every highlight clip is going to look impressive, but at 7 feet, that guy drives to the hoop like a guard. He looks very smooth running the court and handling the ball and appears to have a soft touch around the basket. He also attacks the basket pretty hard.

I haven't heard much about him defensively other than an article on DraftExpress on the CBA title game saying that he was the lesser of the Center matchup on defense.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Unfortunately we'd have to take on more salary than just Ratliff because Marion makes such a ridiculous ammount. My suggestion earlier was Scalabrine and Gerald Green because I think they COULD work in this system, their salaries fit, and they are not coveted so Boston shouldn't be too concerned about losing them. If we got G. Green to cover larger SGs then I would be ecstatic to keep Barbosa.

It's funny. When I was a casual fan in the 90's I was appalled at the lack of loyalty in the NBA in management, personnel, and fan base though it no longer bothers me now that I follow the team thoroughly. Part of me does want Marion to finish out as a Sun becasue he's homegrown talent, but I realize that his shortcomings may be the straw that broke the camels back come playoff run.

I think the thing that is most appealing about Durant is the gaudy rebounding numbers for someone with his offensive skill.

Bottom line, though, is that I'd say, "Look, we'll give you Marion/#4 and you give us #2/any combination of players that makes the salaries work. Take it or leave it." That's all my point is....

 

[panfolk]

Bottom line, though, is that I'd say, "Look, we'll give you Marion/#4 and you give us #2/any combination of players that makes the salaries work. Take it or leave it." That's all my point is....

Sounds like a plan, but I'd like to at least get serviceable players out of it if it's not a salary dump because other posters have a point on giving up 2 starters and only getting one in return. I guess we'd have to buy KT out if we got Ratliff, also. That'd be a shame. Lots of repercussions to getting Durant. On the other hand if it were possible to get Durant and keep the #4 we could get Durant and Horford (from what I've read two of the three most NBA ready players)

 

[Joe Mama]

I like Durant, but I wouldn't give up the #4 AND Barbosa along with Shawn Marion to get him. Barbosa's value is sky high right now. He's got a great contract, and I would say most people believe he's still on his way up.

The Phoenix Suns love Barbosa. I think it's going to take something incredible to pry him away.

Joe

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Sounds like a plan, but I'd like to at least get serviceable players out of it if it's not a salary dump because other posters have a point on giving up 2 starters and only getting one in return. I guess we'd have to buy KT out if we got Ratliff, also. That'd be a shame. Lots of repercussions to getting Durant. On the other hand if it were possible to get Durant and keep the #4 we could get Durant and Horford (from what I've read two of the three most NBA ready players)

I think we're barely missing each other here. All we do is say, "Here's Marion/#4. All you have to do is give us #2 and make it work on your end. That's our only offer. Do not ask for anyone or anything else."

Hell, I'd take Szcerbiak/#2. He could be an absolute sniper off the bench....

 

[slinslin]

Of course I didn't say we would do it or that it is fair, but some Celtics fans "dream" of that package which kind of tells me that there could be a deal both sides would be happy with for Durant.

Say we talk about Marion and #4 for Scalabrine, Ratliff and #2. Boston fans would want Marion, Barbosa #4 for Ratliff, West, Scalabrine, Gomes and #2.

You meet in the middle Marion, Jones, Banks #4 for Wally, West, Scalabrine and #2 or some sorts of 3-team trades.

It tells me that it is possible that the #2 pick could be traded.