Draft Prospects thread

[azirish]

You meet in the middle Marion, Jones, Banks #4 for Wally, West, Scalabrine and #2 or some sorts of 3-team trades.

Any deal that does NOT include Barbosa (signing him has turned into a bargain) or Ratliff is worth considering. Ratliff only played in two games this season, so all you gain is one year off the Marion contract.

Obviously you can't expect Boston to take Banks back, since he flopped there before (a third team would be a necessity).

A cleaner deal would be Marion and #4 and possibly the #24 for Wally, Sclabrine, and Durant, It all depends on whether there is someone at #4 who would entice the Celtics.

Would it make sense for the Suns? It would mean a huge increase in offensive firepower and a clear decrease in defense unless Durant jumps his defense a lot. In the long run, getting a talent like Durant is worth the risk, but you never know.

 

[hafey]

Quite frankly, Ratliff's contract will have value at the deadline. Ainge might be wise to keep it and dump Wally's longer contract. That would be to the benefit of the Suns because Wally would be killer off the bench on the Suns.

 

[panfolk]

Horford doesn't give the Suns anything they need next to Amare--he's not a good defender, he's not versatile, he can't shoot from the perimeter. What he should be able to do is shoot from midrange, score close to the basket, and be a physical presence in the lane...the things Amare already does.

So, if the Suns get Horford, it stands to reason they'll look to move Amare for a complementary piece. Either that or the team's GM will start looking for a new coach.

So who is a perimeter oriented, defensive minded PF? The two don't have to be mutually exclusive in a PF but in practice they sure seem to be. Also, what do you mean by versatile specifically? I guess you could get someone like Thornton to be your perimeter PF but that'd leave Amare always guarding the harder (read: bigger and more athletic) big.

 

[panfolk]

I was reading this guys profile today while roaming and thought he might be good in the D'Antoni system and get to learn from Nash.

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/petterikoponen.html

The scary thing is that DraftExpress compares him to Beno Udrih. Big difference between the two comparisons (NBAdraft says he could be Heinrich). Now that they've made it so more prospects will take part in the predraft games I'm especially interested to see how Petteri matches up against NCAA points.

 

[F-Dog]

So who is a perimeter oriented, defensive minded PF?

The Suns probably won't get both, but they definitely need one or the other. Horford doesn't give them either one.

"Versatile" in this case means being able to switch onto perimeter-oriented PFs or SFs and defend capably. Amare doesn't have the quickness anymore to be comfortable out there, and Horford never will...if Horford can match up with bruising PFs and undersized Cs and that's it, Amare will have to guard guys he's not good at guarding for most of the time the two players are on the floor together.

 

[F-Dog]

The Phoenix Suns love Barbosa. I think it's going to take something incredible to pry him away.

Joe

Durant might fit the bill, honestly.

99% chance the team that gets Durant won't trade him, though. How many GMs have the guts to trade a guy who's been described more than once as a rich man's Kevin Garnett? The safe choice is to dump the rest of the team and build around Durant, and bottom-feeder GMs will always be concerned with keeping their jobs.

 

[sunsfn]

This is 3-10 in Chad Fords top 100.

If they get the Atlanta pick I think it will be 4-6 no lower, and they will draft one of these players listed below. There will not be that many teams get lucky after the 4th spot, but 1-2 could which would slide us to 5-6

I personally do not think they will take a point guard with their early pick.
We do not know who the suns are high on, even though we have heard they really liked Noah.

Noah fits what they are looking for in a quick big that can rebound and play some defense. However, his offense is behind his defense so that may not get him this pick, although his defense would help him in that he could contribute something right away.

Wherever you read about the players, the comments about Horford are that he can step in and contribute right away.

Brewer is somebody the suns would really like to have because he can defend 3 positions and is considered an excellent defender. His offense is behind his defense, but he had a good tournament and his offense was fine there.

Horford appears high on everyones list, but the team drafting third will have a decision to make between Horford/Wright/Brewer/Conley.

Whatever the team that picks 3rd does, will have an effect on the suns pick for sure. If Horford is taken on the 3rd pick I look for the suns to take Wright/Brewer/J.Wright/Noah. If the 3rd pick is Wright, the suns could take Horford/Brewer/J.Wright/Noah.

The way the suns play, I really think they will take B. Wright/Brewer/Noah with the 4-6 pick. I realize that Horford is high on everyones list, and he may be an all-star in the future, but so will B. Wright, and Wright is (I think) a faster taller player than Horford.

The thing that could sway the suns would be if there is a player they could work a trade for with Banks or whoever, and if that player is a big or a swing/sg, then they would go the other way with the draft pick.

As far as trading the Atlanta pick, they may do that, but it will not be for one of the top 2 picks in this draft. Any team that drafts Oden or Durant would get run out of town if they traded someone that has a future for them like these two guys do.
If they trade, I think they will trade down a couple spots and trade a couple picks to get rid of Banks and ?? (not Barbosa) and get another player in return that can help them.

Whatever they do, it appears they need someone that is tall and big to help defend Duncan!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3Al HorfordPF 6-9 235 20FloridaTop 10Horford has the body and skill set needed to play in the NBA right away....

4Yi JianlianPF 7-0 230 19ChinaTop 10Yi is the best international prospect in the draft this year. He has a ton...

5Brandan WrightPF6-10 210 19North CarolinaTop 10On potential, he has the chance to be a NBA All-Star. And so far he's..

6Corey BrewerSG6-8 185 21FloridaTop 10An excellent NCAA tournament this season helped Brewer's stock perhaps more than anyone else.

7Mike ConleyPG6-0 170 19Ohio StateTop 10Conley quickly asserted himself as the best young college point guard in the country.

8Julian WrightSF6-9 220 19KansasTop 10Wright may be the most versatile player in the draft. He can guard and play...

9Jeff GreenSF6-8 225 20GeorgetownLotteryScouts love his versatility and all-around game. But he doesn't really have one standout skill..

10Joakim NoahPF6-11 230 22FloridaLotteryNoah capped an amazing NCAA tournament in 2006 with a near-perfect championship game --

 

[azirish]

"Versatile" in this case means being able to switch onto perimeter-oriented PFs or SFs and defend capably. Amare doesn't have the quickness anymore to be comfortable out there, and Horford never will...if Horford can match up with bruising PFs and undersized Cs and that's it, Amare will have to guard guys he's not good at guarding for most of the time the two players are on the floor together.

I keep wondering how many times you watched Horford play. I saw him in at least six games and he looked very good in all of them. Even in the finals when he struggled to stop Oden, he still grabbed a bunch of rebounds and had a generally good game.

My number one priority is to get someone who can defend the post, rebound, runs the floor well, is athletic, and can shoot. Maybe Horford won't be a great star, but he fills a critical need since he is closer to this profile.

Your desire for someone who can defend perimeter players is interesting, but odd. Marion, Diaw, and Jones are all well suited to playing those kind of players. We don't need someone else who can play perimeter guys, but do need someone who can play the post to ensure Amare can avoid getting into foul trouble.

I'm not entirely sold on Brandan Wright, but everyone says he will become a superstar someday. I suspect he won't be as productive his first two years as Horford, but perhaps afterward will become a big deal. My problem is that I fear the Suns championship window is fairly tight and I want to win now.

 

[F-Dog]

You have to get Brandan Wright if he's there, because he's that good.

Horford, no way. As you say, he probably won't be a great star, and IMO he doesn't fill a need, either.

 

[azirish]

You have to get Brandan Wright if he's there, because he's that good.

Horford, no way. As you say, he probably won't be a great star, and IMO he doesn't fill a need, either.

Are you saying that he can't defend the post and rebound, or that the Suns don't need that?

 

[Cheesebeef]

interesting that Roy Hibbert is no where in that list of top ten players, huh George.

 

[azirish]

interesting that Roy Hibbert is no where in that list of top ten players, huh George.

He is listed in the top ten on most mocks.

Draftexpress.com #5
nbadraft.net #8
hoopshype #5
insidehoops #7
msnbc #5
nbawire.com #9
realgm #4
scoutingthenba #8
hoopsvibe #5

Hoopsworld shows the mocks of a number 5 writers and only 1 of them had him at #11, plus a #6, a #7, and two #10s.

As I said, I don't see him as a good fit for the Suns. But at the same time, I don't feel I'm out on a limb when I say he has a reasonable chance of going quite high.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He is listed in the top ten on most mocks.

Draftexpress.com #5
nbadraft.net #8
hoopshype #5
insidehoops #7
msnbc #5
nbawire.com #9
realgm #4
scoutingthenba #8
hoopsvibe #5

Hoopsworld shows the mocks of a number 5 writers and only 1 of them had him at #11, plus a #6, a #7, and two #10s.

As I said, I don't see him as a good fit for the Suns. But at the same time, I don't feel I'm out on a limb when I say he has a reasonable chance of going quite high.

but that's never been the discussion, has it? Have you seen ONE mock where he goes above Horford? THAT is the discussion. You saying there's a possibility he goes above Horford. Do ANY of those mocks have that happening? That was your statement - why you're talking about him being a good fit for the suns or going high is beyond me, unless you're trying to just avoid the issue of making a pretty out in left field comment about Hibbert going above Horford.

 

[panfolk]

 

[azirish]

I think you have my sentiments well described.

Actually it's been pretty interesting how Cheesebeef keeps attacking me for my "stupid" suggestion that someone might pick Hibbert ahead of Horford while F-Dog keeps attacking my me because I've been a big Horford supporter and he doesn't like Horford. But they don't bother with each other.

Am I the only person that finds this odd?

 

[Joe Mama]

Cheese, for the love of God let it go. I would agree with you that the chances Hibbert goes higher than Horford are slim to none, but it's a little early in the process to say "never". Besides, I think you've made your point repeatedly.

F-dog, I'm not sure why you keep writing off Horford. I would say if the Phoenix Suns to end up with #4-5, and he drops to them there's a reasonable chance they would take him. He'd fit quite well here also. I certainly wouldn't dismiss the notion at this point.

Joe

 

[sunsfn]

I thought I would throw this write-up on Jason Smith here for all to read.

If the suns keep their picks, this guy sounds interesting.

This is just part of an article by Chad Ford so no problem putting it here.
------------------------------------------------

Jason Smith, F, Colorado State
Like Young, Smith is a little bit of a mystery. He's played three years at Colorado State and been on the NBA's radar screen since his freshman season, but NBA executives haven't seen him nearly as much as other prospects in the draft. And when they have seen him play, which Jason Smith showed up? Did they see the kid who dropped 27 points and grabbed 22 rebounds against Wyoming? Or the guy who shot 4-for-12 from the field and had seven turnovers against UNLV?
Smith is out to prove that his performance in the Wyoming game wasn't a fluke. He is testing the draft waters by not hiring an agent. That means he had to pay his own way down to Reseda to work out with MacLean. I caught up with him on just his second day working out in California.
What's clear from comparing the game film with what I saw in the two days of workouts is that Smith's coach didn't realize what a talent he had. Smith is a 7-footer with good athleticism, an excellent motor and very refined perimeter skills. That's a pretty rare combination in 7-footers and should translate into a pretty high draft position for Smith.
Smith has a smooth jump shot with range out to the college 3-point line. He gets good elevation on his jump shot and shows a quick release and consistent release point. He also has the quickness to put the ball on the floor and get to the basket. His first step is impressive for big guy, and his long strides get him to the basket in a hurry. When he gets there, he's pretty explosive off the floor and likes to finish with hard, two-handed dunks.
Smith is active on both ends of the floor. He's constantly moving, setting picks and jockeying for position on the boards. He's very quick to the ball, and when paired up against the Bobcats' Ryan Hollins on Saturday, he showed impressive lateral quickness. He also had several impressive blocked shots as Nick Young attempted to dunk the ball.
Smith is very mobile and runs the floor very well. He'd look great on a team like the Suns.
He doesn't have the strength or technique to be especially effective on the block. At one point MacLean ran some low post drills for Smith, who showed too much hesitation as he tried to figure out what to do. But outside the paint, he was lethal.
Smith has been doing his weight training at Colorado State and has made impressive progress. He weighed just 190 pounds as a freshman but weighed in at 243 on Saturday. He's noticeably thicker in his shoulders and chest and appeared to be in excellent shape. Smith said he's now able to bench press the standard 185 pound bar 15 times. That's impressive for someone his size and build. But he still needs to add some weight.
The tale of the tape is a mixed bag. Smith measured 6-11 in socks and 7-0 in shoes. But he has a wingspan of 83 inches, which is just ordinary for a person of his height. He also has small hands and showed some difficulty palming the NBA ball. Those factors will hurt him a bit in workouts but shouldn't kill him given his perimeter-oriented game.
"I like him a lot," said MacLean. "I've only had him for two days, but I'm impressed with his lift and his energy. He can really do a good job stepping away from the basket and he's tough enough. He just needs to get a plan offensively down low. He has the tools, it's more a mental thing. In the NBA the defense is going to take away what you want to do, so what's your plan after that?"
Smith told me he won't play at the Orlando predraft camp, but he probably doesn't need to. Smith should pleasantly surprise in workouts. He told me he's a virtual lock to stay in the draft at this point. There isn't much more he can do to improve his game at Colorado State. With a new coach coming in, it might not make much sense to return.
Smith's more athletic, tougher and more skilled than he appeared at Colorado State. Given the increasing use of zones in the NBA, teams will appreciate his heady play, energy and ability to stretch defenses. If he were an international player, maybe he'd be an even hotter prospect. As it stands, the late lottery is not out of the question for Smith. I could see a team such as the Sixers or Clippers taking a long look at him in the lottery. Detroit and Golden State would also be good fits in the mid-first round.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think you have my sentiments well described.

Actually it's been pretty interesting how Cheesebeef keeps attacking me for my "stupid" suggestion that someone might pick Hibbert ahead of Horford while F-Dog keeps attacking my me because I've been a big Horford supporter and he doesn't like Horford. But they don't bother with each other.

Am I the only person that finds this odd?

are you serious? Attacking you? We've been having a debate and another piece of info comes up that once again proves how off base your theory is and just because I commenton it, I'M ATTACKING YOU? And then, after having said the "stupid" thing was out of line, you bring that up AGAIN? What good does that do to the discussion?

 

[Cheesebeef]

and George, do you know why I don't bother with F-Dog? Because what WE'RE talking about and what HE'S talking about ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE discussions. One has nothing to do with the other - he's talking about the Suns and what's best for them, and we're talking about straight up,player evals. Not to mention, F-Dog hasn't made the cardinal sin in an agrument by presenting evidence to the contrary of his opinion, as you have.

 

[azirish]

Last time and then ignore.

I want Horford and expect he will go 4th. I am very concerned the Suns will fall to 5th and am looking for someone who might go ahead of Horford. I guess there is a chance of Yi or Conley moving up. I suggested Hibbert MIGHT be another prospect to jump to the 4th slot because teams sometimes make major reaches for really big guys who seem to be able to able to play. I'm not predicting it will happen, only that it is not impossible.

Read the profiles of Hibbert and Horford on draftexpress and you can see why I think this is at least possible. Not likely, just possible.

Cheese, you began by claiming this position is stupid and then softened up a bit without really changing your view. 0% chance, etc. I responded by showing that Hibbert is generally viewed as top ten player and that big men frequently go higher than projected. This does not prove that he will go ahead of Horford, but that it is not impossible.

And why are you so sure the much smaller Horford will be go ahead of Hibbert? Actually, all you provide is that you've seen Hibbert play; but have not described the games or what was so unimpressive about his performances.

The current high rating of Hibbert by draftexpress and others is based heavily on how well he played against Oden. Every profile suggests he did not really come on until late in the season and during the tournament. If you saw him early in the season but not late, then it might explain why your views are so different from draftexpress.

At the same time, draftexpress gave Horford mixed reviews because he had trouble defending Oden and earlier Randolph in the low post. It's not enough to discourage me from taking Horford, but it is the kind of issue that might influence some teams. There are also issues about just how tall Horford is since he may be shorter than his listed 6'10".

Of course until there is the combine and teams work out individual players, it all guess work. There is a reasonable chance that Hibbert will fall out of the lottery if he doesn't test well, just as Noah would climb if he tests better than expected.

Make no mistake, I see almost no chance of Hibbert being drafted by the Suns. He's just not a good fit. Horford is, even if he can't handle Oden in the block right away.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Last time and then ignore.

I want Horford and expect he will go 4th. I am very concerned the Suns will fall to 5th and am looking for someone who might go ahead of Horford. I guess there is a chance of Yi or Conley moving up. I suggested Hibbert MIGHT be another prospect to jump to the 4th slot because teams sometimes make major reaches for really big guys who seem to be able to able to play. I'm not predicting it will happen, only that it is not impossible.

Read the profiles of Hibbert and Horford on draftexpress and you can see why I think this is at least possible. Not likely, just possible.

Cheese, you began by claiming this position is stupid and then softened up a bit without really changing your view. 0% chance, etc. I responded by showing that Hibbert is generally viewed as top ten player and that big men frequently go higher than projected. This does not prove that he will go ahead of Horford, but that it is not impossible.

I think it is impossible and I think draft night will bear that out. And GeorgeI softened up my language but that doesn't mean the point doesn't remain. There's no reason IMO to believe Hibbert will go above Horford. Zip. Zero. Nada. And again, I know we'll see that bourne out come draft night. till then, discussion is done.

i hope that wasn't too much of an "attack" on you. Nice of you AGAIN to bring up the "stupid" thing. good lord.

 

[sunsfn]

I found this site with some insider info that I thought some of you would like to see. A friend sent me the link.

http://nbadrafter.tripod.com/

Forgot to say, I was told he changes and/or adds to it a few times a week.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

I want Corey Brewer with the Hawks pick. Bad. He would be a perfect fit in the Suns system - great one-on-one defender, reliable long-range jumper, crazy athleticism, solid all-around player. Chad Ford wrote an article about he and Joakim Noah today for ESPN Insider:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...had&page=DraftWatch-NoahBrewer&CMP=ILC-INHEAD

 

[panfolk]

Sunsfn, I posted an inquiry on Smith earlier as what I read online sounded intriguing if he fell to the Cleveland pick. The downside is he could be a Zarko...
I hope we get 2 players from the draft this year becasue in recent years half of our picks pan out. Amare and LB I'd say were successes at the opposite ends of the draft whereas Jacobsen and Cabarkapa were both signs of the Suns desire for shooters. If his ego hadn't a been shattered I'd expect Zarko to be getting minutes in GS.

 

[Mulli]

Look for David Stern to make sure the Hawks get a top three pick.