drafting a franchise player

[AzStevenCal]

At the very least, the Cavs would have an All-Star in Amare and a face for their franchise. I still think the Cavs were not smart in trying to keep Lebron by signing Amare. It was a row of the dice but well worth it. Now the Cavs are a franchise without a star and scraping bottom.

But you're basing all this on a rumor while ignoring the other equally credible rumor (IMO) that Lebron preferred Jamison over Amare. Amare tends to gravitate towards the spotlight (a lot of "me" in his comments) and I doubt that would have played well with Lebron who is all about the "me". Wade and Bosh (and Jamison) don't seem to crave the spotlight much and are less of an obstacle to James and his quest for world-wide adoration.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

But you're basing all this on a rumor while ignoring the other equally credible rumor (IMO) that Lebron preferred Jamison over Amare. Amare tends to gravitate towards the spotlight (a lot of "me" in his comments) and I doubt that would have played well with Lebron who is all about the "me". Wade and Bosh (and Jamison) don't seem to crave the spotlight much and are less of an obstacle to James and his quest for world-wide adoration.

Steve

How is that rumor (Jamison) credible? I suppose if you subscribe to the theory that Lebron James is an idiot, then I guess Jamison being preferred to Amare might hold some water.

I think the second part of your paragraph is all speculation with little basis in actual fact.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Amare would have been sent to Cleveland in a sign and trade so he would be locked up contractually. As I recall Amare wanted the max contract and he did not put down conditions on where he would go. Besides, Cleveland would have been attractive with Lebron still there.

OK, yes, IF Amare had agreed to an extension prior to the trade, then Amare would have stayed. I concede that obvious fact based upon the hypothetical condition.

 

[Bufalay]

Also, the stories that Lebron, Wade and Bosh were looking to play together came out long before this offseason. I didn't really believe them but the rumors were circulating for awhile. And as I mentioned, there were also rumors that Lebron preferred Jamison over Amare and if that's true, no way do the Cavs make that trade.

Steve

If Lebron was already planning on leaving the Cavs then it makes sense that he preferred Jamison over Amare. With Amare, that team would've won the championship and it would've been very hard to Lebron to leave Cleveland after winning a championship.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How is that rumor (Jamison) credible? I suppose if you subscribe to the theory that Lebron James is an idiot, then I guess Jamison being preferred to Amare might hold some water.

I think the second part of your paragraph is all speculation with little basis in actual fact.

Actually, I think everything I said was speculation. But, my point was that it seemed inconsistent to just accept one rumor while ignoring the other rumor that was circulating around the same time. I don't know that I put much faith in either of them but simple logic tells me (and I specialize in simple logic, the simpler the better) that IF Lebron had really wanted Cleveland to acquire Amare that they would have moved Heaven and Hell to accommodate his wishes.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Lebron was already planning on leaving the Cavs then it makes sense that he preferred Jamison over Amare. With Amare, that team would've won the championship and it would've been very hard to Lebron to leave Cleveland after winning a championship.

That sounds reasonable to me. OTOH, for many of us, I suspect we'd feel more comfortable abandoning our home team if we had already brought them a championship. I don't know, it's kind of hard trying to get into the minds of people that live in such a completely different world than we do.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Actually, I think everything I said was speculation. But, my point was that it seemed inconsistent to just accept one rumor while ignoring the other rumor that was circulating around the same time. I don't know that I put much faith in either of them but simple logic tells me (and I specialize in simple logic, the simpler the better) that IF Lebron had really wanted Cleveland to acquire Amare that they would have moved Heaven and Hell to accommodate his wishes.

Steve

Sorry but IMO Lebron preferring Antawn Jamison over Amare holds absolutely no water at all, and I'm actually pretty surprised that you think it does.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sorry but IMO Lebron preferring Antawn Jamison over Amare holds absolutely no water at all, and I'm actually pretty surprised that you think it does.

There is one other possibility. LeBron is not very smart. In fact, I think that one is fact.

 

[mojorizen7]

And that is not the managements fault to acquire so many wing players?

It is just plain stupid, they have no clue or consistency in what they are doing.

Slin,you're wasting your time trying to convince many on this board that the SUNS are just flat out doing it wrong.

Any objective fan outside of the fanbase(and a few within it) can clearly see just how irrelevant the SUNS have become,and that they have no one to blame but themselves,and are unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices to eventually begin heading in the right direction again.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sorry but IMO Lebron preferring Antawn Jamison over Amare holds absolutely no water at all, and I'm actually pretty surprised that you think it does.

I find little reason to accept either rumor as fact. I have no idea why Cleveland made a trade for Jamison instead of Amare. I can think of several reasons but I have no idea if any of them have merit.

Perhaps Lebron preferred Antwan over Stat. Perhaps Cleveland tried to trade for Amare but we asked for far too much. Perhaps Amare and his agent made it clear that he would bolt for greener pastures as soon as he was able. Perhaps the Cavs were concerned that Amare's health made him a poor trade option. Perhaps Cleveland inquired and we informed them we were not willing to trade Amare.

The point is, I think there is too much we do not know about the situation to simply assume that Cleveland CHOSE to not pursue Amare. Accepting that rumor as fact while ignoring the other rumor makes little sense to me. They are both rumors and IMO, equally credible.

Steve

 

[CaptainInsano]

I have no idea why Cleveland made a trade for Jamison instead of Amare. I can think of several reasons but I have no idea if any of them have merit.

The reason is simple, the Cavs wanted to get something good without barely giving up anything.

This is why they offered the pathetic Hickson deal for Amare and the Suns balked, and instead went with the Wizards who in full out blow it up mode were giving away good pieces like Jamison for a draft pick and cap relief. Sounds bad for Washington but hey, look, now they have John Wall and at least SOMETHING to look forward toward.

 

[Mainstreet]

I find little reason to accept either rumor as fact. I have no idea why Cleveland made a trade for Jamison instead of Amare. I can think of several reasons but I have no idea if any of them have merit.

Perhaps Lebron preferred Antwan over Stat. Perhaps Cleveland tried to trade for Amare but we asked for far too much. Perhaps Amare and his agent made it clear that he would bolt for greener pastures as soon as he was able. Perhaps the Cavs were concerned that Amare's health made him a poor trade option. Perhaps Cleveland inquired and we informed them we were not willing to trade Amare.

The point is, I think there is too much we do not know about the situation to simply assume that Cleveland CHOSE to not pursue Amare. Accepting that rumor as fact while ignoring the other rumor makes little sense to me. They are both rumors and IMO, equally credible.

Steve

The primary thing I remember from the rumored trade, is that Cleveland did not want to part with J.J. Hickson. That was the primary roadblock. If true, they blundered away their only hope of keeping Lebron by not trading with the Suns. I agree it is all rumor now with Amare's health a part of the equation. IMO, the Cavs viewed Jamison as the safer and cheaper option. The choice has seemingly destroyed their franchise for the foreseeable future. I think the Cavs should have gambled 100M on Amare to keep Lebron.

 

[JCSunsfan]

back to the subject of this thread. Who in this draft looks to be a franchise player. i dont see anyone.

 

[Mainstreet]

back to the subject of this thread. Who in this draft looks to be a franchise player. i dont see anyone.

I think there may be one but who? The draft seems to be dominated by underclassman... even freshman and international. It's hard to project. I don't think it is a class of immediate stars but a class that will contain stars. This may be good for the Suns as good players may drop. Two major mock draft sites seem to have different thoughts. I have provided links below.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011mock_draft

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

 

[Mainstreet]

I should have named at least one player that intrigues me, that would be Jonas Valanciunas, center (international). I'm a little leary of Jimmer Fredette of BYU who is a senior but not a true PG at least yet. I can see the Suns liking him. I fear the Suns may try to catch lightning in a bottle twice in trying to find another Steve Nash.

 

[slinslin]

back to the subject of this thread. Who in this draft looks to be a franchise player. i dont see anyone.

Irving, Barnes, Sullinger, Jones could be it who knows there are more players who could be multiple allstars and that is pretty close to being a franchise player if you can do that.

Heck Derrick Williams and Jared Sullinger should be a monster prospects if they can measure in at 6'10.

Lets get away from the franchise player stuff, we need any good young player with some potential to be an allstar right now.

 

[SirStefan32]

I should have named at least one player that intrigues me, that would be Jonas Valanciunas, center (international). I'm a little leary of Jimmer Fredette of BYU who is a senior but not a true PG at least yet. I can see the Suns liking him. I fear the Suns may try to catch lightning in a bottle twice in trying to find another Steve Nash.

Valenciunas is definitely an interesting player. Same goes for Montiejunas, Kanter, and even Vesely. I don't think any of them are going to be available when Suns pick though, nor are they going to be franchise players.

I am really not sure what Phoenix is gonna do with their own pick. With Orlandos pick, (or a 2nd rounder if they can acquire it), I'd love to see them grab Rick Jackson from Syracuse. He's never going to be a star, but I think he can be an incredible role player. One thing that translates from college to NBA is rebounding, and this guy is a very good rebounder, decent defender, and has the ability to score (though his offense does need work.)

EDIT:
Could Trey Thompkins slide down to the Suns?

 

[elindholm]

Lets get away from the franchise player stuff, we need any good young player with some potential to be an allstar right now.

Why? So that they can make another handful of unsuccessful WCF appearances? Why is a WCF loss led by veterans who aren't going to get any farther preferable to one led by young players who aren't going to get any farther?

Your priority isn't success; it's hope. You want to be hopeful. Having young players makes you hopeful, no matter how irrationally you are overrating their potential. Complaining that Nash/Stoudemire didn't win a championship, then saying, "Let's get a young All-Star so we can win 50 games," makes no sense to me.

If the goal is to build a championship team through the draft, then the Suns need to draft the best player of his draft class, at least one summer. They did that with Stoudemire, and it wasn't quite enough. Now they need to do it again. Getting the third- or fourth- best player won't accomplish your stated goal.

Now, if instead you just want the Suns to be good again, with a different core, I'm all for that. I've given up on the Suns winning a title in my lifetime; the odds are just too long and it isn't worth the angst. But they are more fun to watch when they are winning. So sure, a young All-Star would be fine, but for that matter, so would a veteran. Aside from the "hope" issue, your fixation on the draft doesn't add up.

 

[slinslin]

Huh? I don't want a young allstar to win 50 games next season I want a young allstar so we already have some good players in place once we find a new franchise player.

The best strategy would be to suck 3 years, accumulate as many picks and high picks as possible and sign nobody so that in 3 years time you only have young talented players on rookie contracts and a bunch of capspace to add good players through FA.

 

[FArting]

Derrick Williams

 

[AzStevenCal]

Derrick Williams

I wouldn't mind Derrick Williams. He's a bit under-sized but I love his team attitude. David West was a great college player and has been a decent pro and people often compare them. IMO, Williams is the better player of the two.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

No question Williams is much better than West at the same point.

As far as I know Williams measured in at 6'9 at Lebrons camp and that was a while ago.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No question Williams is much better than West at the same point.

As far as I know Williams measured in at 6'9 at Lebrons camp and that was a while ago.

If we could somehow turn Vince Carter and our 2 picks into Derrick and Kemba I'd be thrilled with our direction.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

If we could somehow turn Vince Carter and our 2 picks into Derrick and Kemba I'd be thrilled with our direction.

Steve

I am intrigued with Kenneth Faried. I love players who do something extremely well. This kid is a rebounding maniac and a very good defensive player. Maybe a little bit of Rodman.

He is a great athlete with a high motor and a nose for the ball. Too bad he can't shoot.

Maybe with a second round pick, or even the Orlando pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am intrigued with Kenneth Faried. I love players who do something extremely well. This kid is a rebounding maniac and a very good defensive player. Maybe a little bit of Rodman.

He is a great athlete with a high motor and a nose for the ball. Too bad he can't shoot.

Maybe with a second round pick, or even the Orlando pick.

That's usually a big deal at this level. It's the reason I'm interested in Fredette although his bust potential worries me. He's a great shooter and he's much better at a lot of other things than people credit him for being but I doubt that he will be there when we pick and he's too much of a gamble to pay a premium to get him.

As for Faried, I love the fact that even though he's an intense player, he's almost always smiling. I was hoping he'd go pro last year because he might have been available for a 2nd round pick. I think he's had enough big games since then though to be almost a first round lock. I wish Billy Donovan had kept his big mouth shut after Faried had his way against his team earlier this season. Someone might even take a flyer on this guy in the teens.

Steve