Dragic: My only problem was with GM Ryan McDonough

[carrrnuttt]

Not that anyone asked my opinion, but I would consider Bledsoe to be a mediocre distributor at best, assuming that the comparison group is NBA guards who start and for whom "point guard" is the most likely position designation.

That's my point though.

People in here went to absurd lengths to denigrate Goran to advocate for Eric. I was a fan of both equally, but I am less a fan of Eric's helter-skelter style of play than of Goran's "kill himself(?)" style as someone put it.

I mean why can't they BOTH be AS GOOD and AS "MEDIOCRE?" It just so happens that, especially last season, Goran was the one that was utterly misused, so the out-context-stats obsessed in here looked at his numbers and ran with it, declaring Goran as some kind of washed out wannabe.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Not that anyone asked my opinion, but I would consider Bledsoe to be a mediocre distributor at best, assuming that the comparison group is NBA guards who start and for whom "point guard" is the most likely position designation.

Yep. Again, we're not talking about Bledsoe - we're talking about Goran. The FO, for better or worse, decided to invest in the younger more athletic player.

Goran seems to be an OK guy and a decent player, but I'm not losing any sleep over him being traded, and I'd prefer not to be the team paying him 16+ million at 34.

 

[sunsfan88]

Not that anyone asked my opinion, but I would consider Bledsoe to be a mediocre distributor at best, assuming that the comparison group is NBA guards who start and for whom "point guard" is the most likely position designation.

Yea Dragic is definitely no pass first PG but Bledsoe hardly has any passing ability at all. He is young but he hasn't really shown promise in improving his passing ability.

To be a PG, you have to make your teammates and the guys around you better. Bledsoe hasn't showed any signs of making anyone around him better nor has any teammate of his really talked about him making the game easier for them.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Not that anyone asked my opinion, but I would consider Bledsoe to be a mediocre distributor at best, assuming that the comparison group is NBA guards who start and for whom "point guard" is the most likely position designation.

At this point, I would agree. He probably has a little room yet to improve, while Goran has probably peaked. But that is an unknown either way.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's my point though.

People in here went to absurd lengths to denigrate Goran to advocate for Eric. I was a fan of both equally, but I am less a fan of Eric's helter-skelter style of play than of Goran's "kill himself(?)" style as someone put it.

I mean why can't they BOTH be AS GOOD and AS "MEDIOCRE?" It just so happens that, especially last season, Goran was the one that was utterly misused, so the out-context-stats obsessed in here looked at his numbers and ran with it, declaring Goran as some kind of washed out wannabe.

But that was NOT my point. And you accused me of having some vendetta against Goran for not thinking he is worth $16 million a year.

To me, Goran and Eric have similar value. As passers, they are about the same. Eric is tons better defensively while I like Goran's shooting better.

Eric is younger, so $14 million a year for him looks alot better to me than $16 plus a year for Goran. I wouldn't want Eric for $16 million plus per year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

BTW. Goran just officially opted out and the Lakers are talking about making a major run at him. It is not likely the Suns could have kept him one way or another and Miami may have made one of the worst trades ever.

 

[Cheesebeef]

BTW. Goran just officially opted out and the Lakers are talking about making a major run at him. It is not likely the Suns could have kept him one way or another and Miami may have made one of the worst trades ever.

man... that would be great if the Lakers blow their wad on a good, not great swing guard who's already 30.

 

[elindholm]

Miami may have made one of the worst trades ever.

Boy, I don't know about that. Even over just the past few years, the Sixers giving up Vucevic for nothing -- pardon me, for Andrew Bynum -- is looking pretty darn bad. The guy posted 19 and 11 last year on good shooting numbers and is only 24.

 

[Mainstreet]

BTW. Goran just officially opted out and the Lakers are talking about making a major run at him. It is not likely the Suns could have kept him one way or another and Miami may have made one of the worst trades ever.

If Dragic has any loyalty, he should make every effort to stay with the Heat.

The Heat can offer him a 5 year, 115 million dollar contract, more than any other team. I don't expect the Heat to go anywhere near this number but they can out bid the Lakers.

 

[Phrazbit]

This is how I know that you guys are looking at numbers without context. Or are blinded by bias in some form or another.



That's also because he was/is usually the sole and/or main distributor or at least expected to be when he's on the floor. Even when Eric was injured and out during the 2013-2014 season, we were still attempting the "dual-PG" nonsense with whatever band-aid we happened to be running on the floor with Goran.

In many situations, he was our best scorer on the floor, so he assisted less. However, whatever assists he DID hand out, was handed out at a similar clip and a similar TO rate as any of the others on the list, based on usage.



Since it's all about this for you, are you saying then that everyone else on this list is "mediocre" as passers? What about Eric, whom many of you championed over Goran? Why is his UTTER mediocrity (based on his turnovers vs his assists) better to stomach than Goran's?

I'm seriously just wanting to know where you guys are getting off denigrating someone while espousing others that are just as "mediocre" as the one you're all attempting to rake over the coals.

I don't think anyone has championed Bledsoe as a passer.



And this isn't just about the stats, there is plenty of in-game context to say he is not a great passer. While he is great in transition he really is not near as effective in half court against set defenses, because he isn't the kind of guy who can pass through traffic. Which also ties into he HUGE reliance on a pick and roll partner. It opens up space for him and gives him one easy pass option.

I think this is a strange debate to even have. Do you honestly think he is a top tier distributor? Not talking about him as a complete player, because I like the total package, but purely as a passer.

And honestly, you're characterizing this stuff as "getting off" on denigrating him, and claim we think he is a "washed out wannabe". I wanted to KEEP Dragic (as did JC), I think he is, overall, a good player, he just isn't anything special as a passer. But this is the kind of stuff that brings upon the more colorful rhetoric in these debates. When merely pointing out strengths and weakness of Dragic gets you blasted as "getting off" on a bias. I think you need to ease off and look at what we've repeatedly said about his overall talents.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

man... that would be great if the Lakers blow their wad on a good, not great swing guard who's already 30.

Yep, JC summarized the situation nicely, and why it mostly makes sense to pay Bledsoe, not Dragic.

I'd be fine going against a declining Dragic on a massive deal.

 

[SirStefan32]

I have become a huge Dragic fan, but I am not sure about $16M per year for five years.
I know that the cap is going up, but that's a lot of money. In all fairness, that's just a little more than Bledsoe got, and what Knight will get, so it's not that bad.

 

[sunsfan88]

BTW. Goran just officially opted out and the Lakers are talking about making a major run at him. It is not likely the Suns could have kept him one way or another and Miami may have made one of the worst trades ever.

Based on all the rumors, Lakers are making a run at Marc Gasol, LMA, Goran Dragic, Dwayne Wade, Draymond Green, and trade for Cousins. I

I would never believe reports when it comes to LAL and NYK, it's their big market spewing crap up.

Dragic will have to first walk AND those Miami picks will have to be like lottery or top 10 picks for this to be "one of the worst trades ever".

 

[sunsfan88]

Boy, I don't know about that. Even over just the past few years, the Sixers giving up Vucevic for nothing -- pardon me, for Andrew Bynum -- is looking pretty darn bad. The guy posted 19 and 11 last year on good shooting numbers and is only 24.

Or the James Harden trade. Or the Kurt Thomas trade. Or the Tobias Harris trade.

Heck if the 76ers end up getting that LAL pick next season which will probably be top 10 and drafting a star with it, then that's another one.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Or the James Harden trade. Or the Kurt Thomas trade. Or the Tobias Harris trade.

Heck if the 76ers end up getting that LAL pick next season which will probably be top 10 and drafting a star with it, then that's another one.

Ok. Elindhom and SF88, I concede.

 

[sunsfan88]

Ok. Elindhom and SF88, I concede.

I'm not saying you can't eventually be right. If Dragic actually leaves Miami this summer and those draft picks end up being spent on a very good player or two, then definitely it will be bad.

I can't see him just leaving though, Pat Riley is too smart to give up 2 first rd picks for him to let him walk after 2 months.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not saying you can't eventually be right. If Dragic actually leaves Miami this summer and those draft picks end up being spent on a very good player or two, then definitely it will be bad.

I can't see him just leaving though, Pat Riley is too smart to give up 2 first rd picks for him to let him walk after 2 months.

But Goran is an UFA so he can go wherever he wants. If Wade leaves all bets are off.

 

[SirStefan32]

But Goran is an UFA so he can go wherever he wants. If Wade leaves all bets are off.

Wade leaving is not going to affect Goran's decision. If they can sign a shooter to replace Wade, they'll be better off.

 

[Phrazbit]

Wade leaving is not going to affect Goran's decision. If they can sign a shooter to replace Wade, they'll be better off.

Well, since being on a competitive team is near the bottom of Dragic's priorities I doubt roster makeup matters to him.

 

[Mainstreet]

But Goran is an UFA so he can go wherever he wants. If Wade leaves all bets are off.

The Heat can outbid any other team for Dragic by giving him a five year contact. At Goran's age, I think he wants financial stability the most. He is staying with the Heat unless they don't want to show him the money.

 

[sunsfan88]

Wade leaving is not going to affect Goran's decision. If they can sign a shooter to replace Wade, they'll be better off.

Agreed about pairing him with a shooter plus I read somewhere that Pat Riley wants a shot at Kevin Durant when he hits FA so he may not give Wade the type of heavy money he's looking for.

 

[95pro]

90/5...wow

 

[sunsfan88]

Took $20 mil less than max.

 

[SirStefan32]

Took $20 mil less than max.

Well, he didn't "take" less than max. He took the highest offer that happened to be less than max.

 

[sunsfan88]

Well, he didn't "take" less than max. He took the highest offer that happened to be less than max.

Quite the change in sentiment considering everyone said as recent as days ago that their glad Dragic is gone because it will take max to keep him.....

And like I said for what it's worth, the Heat radio station reported earlier he didn't test the market and if he did, he may have got max offer from Knicks but he took this to help Riley sign other guys.