Dragic: My only problem was with GM Ryan McDonough

[Covert Rain]

I don't freaking blame Dragic one bit. That's like you or I being a top performer in our job and your boss saying...yeah...your great but can you do this temporarily while in turns into a full time gig. Nobody would be happy with that. I have had bosses who in my career kept making empty promises and I never stayed around long because those kind of bosses never change. Dragic didn't handle his exit well one bit but I don't blame the root cause on him for even a second.

There is a huge difference between being a good teammate and being a "yes" man and blindly listening to a GM who keeps making empty promises. The fact that he didn't have a problem with Sarver but our GM speaks volumes.

By the way, this is one of the few instances where I feel bad for Sarver. He wants to change and get out of the way of Basketball decisions by letting Basketball guys run things. However, that probably means turning a blind eye to some tactics used by GM's that piss off players.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't freaking blame Dragic one bit. That's like you or I being a top performer in our job and your boss saying...yeah...your great but can you do this temporarily while in turns into a full time gig. Nobody would be happy with that. I have had bosses who in my career kept making empty promises and I never stayed around long because those kind of bosses never change. Dragic didn't handle his exit well one bit but I don't blame the root cause on him for even a second.

There is a huge difference between being a good teammate and being a "yes" man and blindly listening to a GM who keeps making empty promises. The fact that he didn't have a problem with Sarver but our GM speaks volumes.

By the way, this is one of the few instances where I feel bad for Sarver. He wants to change and get out of the way of Basketball decisions by letting Basketball guys run things. However, that probably means turning a blind eye to some tactics used by GM's that piss off players.

Except that wasn't the case. Dragic, and the team, preformed at their best when he was not the PG. Furthermore, the Suns DID, as promised, trade Thomas despite him actually being better at the job than Dragic was.

Thomas wasn't even eligible to be traded until mid December, and literally right when he became availble for trade the Suns went on a massive tear winning like 17 of their next 21 games with Thomas playing outstanding. Once the team cooled off the Suns told Dragic they had a deal in place to move Thomas, he didn't care and they were both gone.

So... basically Dragic's entire beef seems to be that the Suns didn't make haste to dump a player who was out preforming him by a wide margin and while the team was in a great run of play.

That's BS. Dragic's demand was as selfish as it gets, he wanted the team to bend to his demands despite that every indicator said it was detrimental, and they did anyway... but they took to long to appease him. Screw him.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't freaking blame Dragic one bit. That's like you or I being a top performer in our job and your boss saying...yeah...your great but can you do this temporarily while in turns into a full time gig. Nobody would be happy with that. I have had bosses who in my career kept making empty promises and I never stayed around long because those kind of bosses never change. Dragic didn't handle his exit well one bit but I don't blame the root cause on him for even a second.

There is a huge difference between being a good teammate and being a "yes" man and blindly listening to a GM who keeps making empty promises. The fact that he didn't have a problem with Sarver but our GM speaks volumes.

By the way, this is one of the few instances where I feel bad for Sarver. He wants to change and get out of the way of Basketball decisions by letting Basketball guys run things. However, that probably means turning a blind eye to some tactics used by GM's that piss off players.

That is exactly right!

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't freaking blame Dragic one bit. That's like you or I being a top performer in our job and your boss saying...yeah...your great but can you do this temporarily while in turns into a full time gig. Nobody would be happy with that. I have had bosses who in my career kept making empty promises and I never stayed around long because those kind of bosses never change. Dragic didn't handle his exit well one bit but I don't blame the root cause on him for even a second.

There is a huge difference between being a good teammate and being a "yes" man and blindly listening to a GM who keeps making empty promises. The fact that he didn't have a problem with Sarver but our GM speaks volumes.

By the way, this is one of the few instances where I feel bad for Sarver. He wants to change and get out of the way of Basketball decisions by letting Basketball guys run things. However, that probably means turning a blind eye to some tactics used by GM's that piss off players.

If Dragic had stayed he would have been paired with Bledsoe again. IT was going to be traded and Tyler Ennis was never a factor. Dragic wanted to be the primary PG.

 

[BC867]

If Dragic had stayed he would have been paired with Bledsoe again. IT was going to be traded and Tyler Ennis was never a factor. Dragic wanted to be the primary PG.

Dragic was the best Point Guard on the team and he found himself shuttled between Shooting Guard and, gasp, Small Forward.

His wanting to be the primary PG was not only good for him, it would have been good for the Suns.

After Goran left, did Bledsoe distinguish himself as the best Point Guard on the team? No, he did not.

Is he the best candidate for primary PG now? No, he is not.

Is he playoff caliber Face of the Team? No, he is not.

His presence represents the Suns wallowing in mediocrity.

Everyone seems to see that except the General Manager, who seems out to salvage his reputation by sticking with his obsession and not doing what is best for the team.

 

[Catlover]

Dragic was the best Point Guard on the team and he found himself shuttled between Shooting Guard and, gasp, Small Forward.

His wanting to be the primary PG was not only good for him, it would have been good for the Suns.

After Goran left, did Bledsoe distinguish himself as the best Point Guard on the team? No, he did not.

Is he the best candidate for primary PG now? No, he is not.

Is he playoff caliber Face of the Team? No, he is not.

His presence represents the Suns wallowing in mediocrity.

Everyone seems to see that except the General Manager, who seems out to salvage his reputation by sticking with his obsession and not doing what is best for the team.

Maybe but that's yet to be proved. But regardless, Goran as the sole point guard, led a healthy Phoenix squad to 25 wins. Bledsoe, still early in his development, led a crippled team to 39 wins. Neither result impresses me.

 

[BC867]

Maybe but that's yet to be proved. But regardless, Goran as the sole point guard, led a healthy Phoenix squad to 25 wins. Bledsoe, still early in his development, led a crippled team to 39 wins. Neither result impresses me.

OK, neither Dragic nor Bledsoe (nor Thomas nor Knight) is a smooth Point Guard with skills to make the rest of the offense better.

The Suns need to find one. Not a 2-time MVP Steve Nash, but a pure pass-first Point Guard. In other words, not a tweener who is small enough to (have to) play Point but not a pure shooter.

That is not going to happen as long as McD is GM, according to what he told the Press.

 

[JCSunsfan]

OK, neither Dragic nor Bledsoe (nor Thomas nor Knight) is a smooth Point Guard with skills to make the rest of the offense better.

The Suns need to find one. Not a 2-time MVP Steve Nash, but a pure pass-first Point Guard. In other words, not a tweener who is small enough to (have to) play Point but not a pure shooter.

That is not going to happen as long as McD is GM, according to what he told the Press.

That is not the way the league works these days. There is no pure, pass first point guard having any success. Everyone is a scoring pg.

Kyrie, Curry, Chris Paul, Westbrook, Rose etc.

 

[BC867]

That is not the way the league works these days. There is no pure, pass first point guard having any success. Everyone is a scoring pg.

Kyrie, Curry, Chris Paul, Westbrook, Rose etc.

But Bledsoe just doesn't seem smooth at either the "1" or "2". Unfortunately, 1+2 doesn't average 1 1/2 in this case. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Perhaps Knight can fill that role and Bledsoe can be moved to have a scoring Point Guard alongside a legitimate Shooting Guard, so we won't have to degrade our power positions to who shoots 3-pointers the best.

But, once again, the problem is that it is not going to happen as long as McD is GM. Two jacks of all trades, master of none with the bulk of playing time in the backcourt.

 

[Catlover]

But Bledsoe just doesn't seem smooth at either the "1" or "2". Unfortunately, 1+2 doesn't average 1 1/2 in this case. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Perhaps Knight can fill that role and Bledsoe can be moved to have a scoring Point Guard alongside a legitimate Shooting Guard, so we won't have to degrade our power positions to who shoots 3-pointers the best.

But, once again, the problem is that it is not going to happen as long as McD is GM. Two jacks of all trades, master of none with the bulk of playing time in the backcourt.

We were killed at the 5 spot almost all season. We took quite a beating at the 3 spot too. Once Dragic and IT were traded, we were upside down at the 2 spot. But for some reason, most of the finger pointing is aimed at the 1 and the 4 spot. Hard to figure.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't freaking blame Dragic one bit. That's like you or I being a top performer in our job and your boss saying...yeah...your great but can you do this temporarily while in turns into a full time gig. Nobody would be happy with that. I have had bosses who in my career kept making empty promises and I never stayed around long because those kind of bosses never change. Dragic didn't handle his exit well one bit but I don't blame the root cause on him for even a second.

There is a huge difference between being a good teammate and being a "yes" man and blindly listening to a GM who keeps making empty promises. The fact that he didn't have a problem with Sarver but our GM speaks volumes.

By the way, this is one of the few instances where I feel bad for Sarver. He wants to change and get out of the way of Basketball decisions by letting Basketball guys run things. However, that probably means turning a blind eye to some tactics used by GM's that piss off players.

Very well put.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We were killed at the 5 spot almost all season. We took quite a beating at the 3 spot too. Once Dragic and IT were traded, we were upside down at the 2 spot. But for some reason, most of the finger pointing is aimed at the 1 and the 4 spot. Hard to figure.

Yup. Put the rest of the team together right, and the pg position will look fine.

Here's how I think it should look.

Guard rotation: Bledsoe, Knight, Big shooting guard. That third guy should be key. Both Bledsoe and Knight can handle pg duties and they should play together. The third guy should be a big guard who plays D and can shoot threes. Green looked good in that role in 13/14 and PJ looked good in that role for stretches this year. The problem is that Green doesn't play good enough D. PJ is intriguing because of his defensive versatility, but it moves him a way from the backboard and we really need his rebounding. Archie would be great if he could add a three to his arsenal.

PF center rotation: Len, ?, ?. Even Len is a problem. While his potential is amazing, there is always some reason why he only shows it in spurts. We are all in with Len, but he has to step it up. Wright was actually a nice efficient veteran piece in the backup pf/c role. But his lack of shooting ability doesn't allow good spacing. Kieff is a one on one player and stops the offensive flow. He is good, versatile, defends slightly better than average and can shoot. He would be a decent backup. We need a starting pf who can rebound and shoot out to the three. We need a back up C, even a potential starting center in case of Len's failure to meet expectations.

SF: PJ is an excellent role playing starter. Warren has the potential to be a starter, even a top 3 player (on the team). Marcus, the knucklehead, is a decent third stringer if it were not for his issues off the court.

Conclusion: The Suns offseason priorities should be

1. Starting power forward with rebounding and floor stretching shooting.
2. Big 3 and D guard. This player could be aquired or developed from within (Archie?)
3. Backup C. Resiging Wright would be OK.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yup. Put the rest of the team together right, and the pg position will look fine.

Here's how I think it should look.

Guard rotation: Bledsoe, Knight, Big shooting guard. That third guy should be key. Both Bledsoe and Knight can handle pg duties and they should play together. The third guy should be a big guard who plays D and can shoot threes. Green looked good in that role in 13/14 and PJ looked good in that role for stretches this year. The problem is that Green doesn't play good enough D. PJ is intriguing because of his defensive versatility, but it moves him a way from the backboard and we really need his rebounding. Archie would be great if he could add a three to his arsenal.

PF center rotation: Len, ?, ?. Even Len is a problem. While his potential is amazing, there is always some reason why he only shows it in spurts. We are all in with Len, but he has to step it up. Wright was actually a nice efficient veteran piece in the backup pf/c role. But his lack of shooting ability doesn't allow good spacing. Kieff is a one on one player and stops the offensive flow. He is good, versatile, defends slightly better than average and can shoot. He would be a decent backup. We need a starting pf who can rebound and shoot out to the three. We need a back up C, even a potential starting center in case of Len's failure to meet expectations.

SF: PJ is an excellent role playing starter. Warren has the potential to be a starter, even a top 3 player (on the team). Marcus, the knucklehead, is a decent third stringer if it were not for his issues off the court.

Conclusion: The Suns offseason priorities should be

1. Starting power forward with rebounding and floor stretching shooting.
2. Big 3 and D guard. This player could be aquired or developed from within (Archie?)
3. Backup C. Resiging Wright would be OK.

Maybe I am misinterpreting it, but the Suns should get away from starting three guards. They need to get bigger, not smaller.

 

[sunsfan88]

For better or for worse, McD is now officially running the team

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/608680620382781440

 

[JCSunsfan]

Maybe I am misinterpreting it, but the Suns should get away from starting three guards. They need to get bigger, not smaller.

I was not advocating three guards starting. I was talking about the three guard rotation. Two starting guards and the main sub off the bench. The third guard off the bench should be a big 3 and D two, not another pg.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was not advocating three guards starting. I was talking about the three guard rotation. Two starting guards and the main sub off the bench. The third guard off the bench should be a big 3 and D two, not another pg.

Thanks for the clarification. I have no problem with a 3 and D guard off the bench. However, I have questions whether Bledsoe and Knight can continually start and relieve each other at PG because of injury or fatigue. Minimally I think the Suns need a backup PG or a combo guard. It would be nice if that 3 and D guard were a combo guard.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thanks for the clarification. I have no problem with a 3 and D guard off the bench. However, I have questions whether Bledsoe and Knight can continually start and relieve each other at PG because of injury or fatigue. Minimally I think the Suns need a backup PG or a combo guard. It would be nice if that 3 and D guard were a combo guard.

A 3 and D combo guard would probably be all-nba--a big guard who distributes, defends at a high level, and can shoot the three.

The only player I can think of like that is a young Joe Johnson.

 

[Phrazbit]

Size is incredibly overrated, the suns were not small last season. Suns need to get more talented regardless of position.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Size is incredibly overrated, the suns were not small last season. Suns need to get more talented regardless of position.

Interesting, my rating on our present players and their talent level in comparison to the league average (low, medium, high). I am assuming that talent is a combination of athleticism, skills, and size.

Pg; Bledsoe, high, Goodwin, high
Sg: Knight, high,
SF: Tucker, low, Warren, medium, Mook, medium
PF: Keef, medium, Wright, medium
C: Len, high

I reserve the right to change my opinion, its just off the top of my head.

 

[Phrazbit]

Len has potential but he was well below average on the whole, knight barely played and the guys we had to use as alternatives stunk, our SF production was horrible (despite being plenty big). Kieff is plenty big and average at best, and a serious detriment on the glass and on D... he also kills ball movement and does little to spread the court.

The bench guys you mention (other than Wright) either have played poorly or have hardly played. Especially saying that Goodwin is a high talent player. He might have the athleticism but as far as skills, go the things that have little to do with size strength and speed, he has basically nothing to work with so far.

When I am talking about talent I'm talking about being good at things like shooting, passing, rebounding, defending. We're lacking in all areas, while in terms of height, size, athleticism, we're hardly lacking. IMO those physical attributes are NOT talent, they're nice to have but only if the actual skill to play the game is there. A guy can be a sprinter with a 44 inch vertical but it does not make him a basketball player. We're not lacking in size. We lack talent.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Maybe we should have an argument about the definition of "talent".

 

[Phrazbit]

Maybe we should have an argument about the definition of "talent".

Maybe... but I've always thought that was pretty cut and dry.

We're talking about basketball, to me saying a guy is "talented" basically means he is a good player. Not he is fast or he can jump. We lack talent, we lack guys who are good at NBA level basketball.

Archie Goodwin has a lot of the physical characteristics scouts want to see, but he lacks talent.

Its exactly why I'm harping on that size and athleticism is not our issue. We have a decently sized team, we have guys who can run and jump better than many in the league. What we don't have is guys who can rebound... pass... defend... shoot the three. Those are things that take skill, IE talent.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My understanding of talent is innate ability. Talent makes it easier to develop skills and overall game, but it is not the same thing. Talent is more than raw athleticism. It would include intelligence, body control, vision, and instinct. But talent is natural and innate and then honed.

That has just alwAys been the way I understood it.

 

[SirStefan32]

JC, I think you are taking the dictionary definition, whereas Phrazbit is looking at it pragmatically, in terms of basketball. I'd say Alex Len is talented, but he is not a very good player, which is what Phrazbit means when he says "talent." Perhaps we need to separate "talent" from "potential" or separate "talented" from "good."

The bottom line is that the Suns are just not a very good team. They don't have good individual players, and those players don't quite complement each other nor do they have any kind of chemistry.

They don't have real play-makers, they don't have any kind of inside presence, they don't have a lot of toughness, they don't have good long-range shooting, they are not very good defensively, and the list could go on and on and on and on.

Their two guards are neither play makers nor shooters (to me, Bledsoe and Knight are Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry clones). Power forwards are neither stretch-fours nor tough, inside players. They have no shooting guard outside of Green, who is a chucker, but due to inconstancy and low basketball IQ, is simply not a serious rotation player.
Their Center is young, promising, and full of potential, but he is really not an NBA rotation player just yet, and on top of that, he has serious injury concerns. Tucker is a good team guy, with great attitude, and enough skill to be a starting "three and D" guy if the rest of the roster is good, and Warren is an incredibly talented youngster who may become a good player. That is a really bad team. Hell, substitute the two youngsters with an all-star Center and SF of your choice (LeBron, KD and actual superstars being excluded) and this is still not a very good team. They are somewhere between "bad" and "seriously flawed" on four or five positions (I'd say they are OK on SF if all other positions get taken care of.) That's a bad team, regardless of what terminology we use.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Talent is fundamentally different than athleticism...we have plenty of astounding athletes, less basketball talent.