Encouraging Kyler Murray Trends

[BW52]

Plenty, but how many great QBs started their career with a worse record? I know Peyton Manning and Steve Young both fall into that category.

So are you grouping Murray in that category?IMO Murray

And there it is...

C'mon man...your just being combative at this point.

The ship has sailed...Murray played better than any rookie QB this franchise has ever had and one of the best rookie years of any QB.

You don't have to agree with giving up on Rosen.
You don't have to be a Murray fan boy.
You don't have to like that we only won 5 games this year vs 3 last year (improvement)
You don't even have to like the guy.
But you can't deny his talent/performance as a rookie (especially compared to Rosen last year).

If you are just having fun being an antagonist...fine.
But don't you want to enjoy being a Cardinals fan? We haven't had much to cheer about in the past 50 years.

Not being a antagonist.I just don't buy the hype machine or the line of thinking that KM is the savior.I have said several times KM has flashed great talent and other times he was bad Wh

 

[BW52]

Plenty, but how many great QBs started their career with a worse record? I know Peyton Manning and Steve Young both fall into that category.

So are you grouping Murray in that category?IMO Murray

And there it is...

C'mon man...your just being combative at this point.

The ship has sailed...Murray played better than any rookie QB this franchise has ever had and one of the best rookie years of any QB.

You don't have to agree with giving up on Rosen.
You don't have to be a Murray fan boy.
You don't have to like that we only won 5 games this year vs 3 last year (improvement)
You don't even have to like the guy.
But you can't deny his talent/performance as a rookie (especially compared to Rosen last year).

If you are just having fun being an antagonist...fine.
But don't you want to enjoy being a Cardinals fan? We haven't had much to cheer about in the past 50 years.

Not being a antagonist.I just don't buy the hype machine or the line of thinking that KM is the savior.I have said several times KM has flashed great talent and other times he was bad When I see more consistent play all around by KM then maybe .After being a fan for over 50 years being skeptical comes naturally.We have been fooled before.That's not being antagonistic or confrontational.... It is being realistic IMHO.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

So are you grouping Murray in that category?

No just pointing out that basing your assessment of Kyler's play on how many wins he had is flawed. As can be seen by the fact that some HoF level QBs had worse records to start their career.

Despite what you may believe a team needs more than a QB to win games and the Cardinals had some very big deficiencies in other areas that really dragged the team down.

 

[BW52]

I have never seen anybody use the word "savior" in association with Murray except for you.

You can debate his merits without creating an imaginary extreme position that no one holds. It doesn't strengthen your points in the debates about Murray you seem to so enjoy.

Seems to me that the usual suspects rush to defend their hero every time.I call it a realistic skeptical view.Last I heard that is still allowed .

 

[ajcardfan]

So are you grouping Murray in that category?IMO Murray

Not being a antagonist.I just don't buy the hype machine or the line of thinking that KM is the savior.I have said several times KM has flashed great talent and other times he was bad Wh

I have never seen anyone use the word "savior" in association with Murray except for you. You can debate his merits without creating an imaginary extreme position that no one holds.

 

[ajcardfan]

Seems to me that the usual suspects rush to defend their hero every time.I call it a realistic skeptical view.Last I heard that is still allowed .

Yes, you are allowed to make stuff up. Like people calling Murray a savior.

 

[BW52]

Yes, you are allowed to make stuff up. Like people calling Murray a savior.

So I just imagined " transcendent player" and " NFL changing QB"?
Pulled those out of thin air.Seems those were bandied about on these boards quite often before and after the draft by KMs loyal band of fans.It must really upset you that a few remain unconvinced..... Hopeful but unconvinced.

 

[Zeno]

Yes, you are allowed to make stuff up. Like people calling Murray a savior.

Well there were people that called him that as well as "transcendent", "generational" etc.

For the record I didn't want to draft him but I am glad we did, he showed enough for me as a rookie that I have hope moving forward. He has the talent to be top 10 in the league if he reaches his potential and that bodes well for the franchise.

 

[cardncubfan]

So I just imagined " transcendent player" and " NFL changing QB"?
Pulled those out of thin air.Seems those were bandied about on these boards quite often before and after the draft by KMs loyal band of fans.It must really upset you that a fee remain unconvinced..... Hopeful but unconvinced.

That was back in April. Please show where anyone on this board has said it since the season began.

 

[BW52]

That was back in April. Please show where anyone on this board has said it since the season began.

Show me that it wasn't said.I don't care when.It was said and you know it The hype was there and you know it.
Don't have to show you squat The fact that it was said is enough.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Seems to me that the usual suspects rush to defend their hero every time.I call it a realistic skeptical view.Last I heard that is still allowed .

When you make a flawed argument to try and prove your negative stance on Murray than people are going to call you out on it.

 

[Solar7]

I'm with @Zeno. Didn't want him. Happy with his performance. He'll be the QB moving forward, and I hope he kicks it into an extra special gear. From where we stand right now, he's unequivocally part of the solution, not the problem.

 

[BW52]

When you make a flawed argument to try and prove your negative stance on Murray than people are going to call you out on it.

So it's a negative stance because I don't think style points count for crap and instead prefer wins?If I think KM flashed talents but was inconsistent and didn't live up to the #1 pick that offends certain people...Looks to me that some people call out anybody that doesn't see all sunshine and lollipops with KM.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

So it's a negative stance because I don't think style points count for crap and instead prefer wins?If I think KM flashed talents but was inconsistent and didn't live up to the #1 pick that offends certain people...Looks to me that some people call out anybody that doesn't see all sunshine and lollipops with KM.

It's a negative and flawed stance because you are trying to hold Murray single handedly accountable for a stat that a whole team including coaches is responsible for, not just the QB.

 

[Solar7]

Also, @BW52 is right about the overwhelming nonsense about Kyler in the offseason, but I'm more on board with the guy than him.

 

[ajcardfan]

Well there were people that called him that as well as "transcendent", "generational" etc.

For the record I didn't want to draft him but I am glad we did, he showed enough for me as a rookie that I have hope moving forward. He has the talent to be top 10 in the league if he reaches his potential and that bodes well for the franchise.

I don't remember any of that. Maybe I missed all the fun.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Also, @BW52 is right about the overwhelming nonsense about Kyler in the offseason, but I'm more on board with the guy than him.

And there has been an overwhelming amount of undeserved negativity as well. Mostly around the same time as the "transcendent" comments were happening. I would guess that some of the comments from both sides were said to spite the other.

 

[DVontel]

I can’t believe you guys are still wasting time entertaining BW, lol.

 

[BW52]

I don't remember any of that. Maybe I missed all the fun.

Seeing your avatar I wonder if listening yo Ozzie and firing up a few might have done that?

 

[Solar7]

And there has been an overwhelming amount of undeserved negativity as well. Mostly around the same time as the "transcendent" comments were happening. I would guess that some of the comments from both sides were said to spite the other.

I suppose so, but by the nature of being a Cardinals board, it seemed overwhelmingly positive on Kyler Murray's side to me. I got blocked by multiple people, it was suggested I leave from mods... I'll admit, I feel a little bitter about that whole time period.

I don't think any people on his bandwagon were ever told they should leave, that they were bad fans, or that they were trolls. I was a little aggressive at times though, so it's behind me.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I suppose so, but by the nature of being a Cardinals board, it seemed overwhelmingly positive on Kyler Murray's side to me. I got blocked by multiple people, it was suggested I leave from mods... I'll admit, I feel a little bitter about that whole time period.

I don't think any people on his bandwagon were ever told they should leave, that they were bad fans, or that they were trolls. I was a little aggressive at times though, so it's behind me.

While I agree that fans shouldn't tell other fans to leave or how to be a fan, I will say that it would be pretty illogical for people to tell someone that is supportive of a player or the team to leave or that they are being a "bad fan".

 

[Zeno]

I don't remember any of that. Maybe I missed all the fun.

Lucky you. There is no way another offseason of draft talk will go to that level this year, it was crazy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Updated through the end of the season.

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Lots of ways to parse out this data, but for me it looks good that we actually finish the season going from almost 1/3 more 3 and outs per game to (about) below-average. Points per drive has also really surged, even making it to an average level against the 16th-ranked (Seattle) and 8th-ranked (LARM) defenses by DVOA on the road to end the year.

So interesting. The volatility is interesting too. Thank you for tracking all this k9!

 

[BigRedRage]

So I just imagined " transcendent player" and " NFL changing QB"?
Pulled those out of thin air.Seems those were bandied about on these boards quite often before and after the draft by KMs loyal band of fans.It must really upset you that a few remain unconvinced..... Hopeful but unconvinced.

It's weird that you let excited fanboys impact your own opinion making process.

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[BigRedRage]

Seeing your avatar I wonder if listening yo Ozzie and firing up a few might have done that?[emoji38]

It's probably why he doesn't hold 9 month grudges on message boards

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