Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[602 Native]

He's a major reason we lost, but of course not THE reason. Had the rest of the team played/coached well except for him, sure, the blame would fall squarely on his shoulders. It didn't and it doesn't.

My list of blame yesterday.

1. Oline
2. Petzing
3. Murray
4. Conner

The oline had its worst day ever and Petzing didn’t adjust.

K1 threw a terrible pass for a pick and missed McBride again in the end zone. He was pressured all day which ties back to the oline.

JC was non existent when our run game is supposed to be our bread and butter ( you can tie this again directly to the oline).

 

[BritCard]

So you would prefer him to be more like Tua? The first time he lowers his shoulder & gets seriously hurt on a play you'll be asking why didn't he slide sooner.

If he's getting hurt running into 185lb CB's then he should hang up his cleats. Done got steamrolled from behind last week by a 240lb linebacker and popped right back up.

You can't play football based on if you might get hurt or not. You have to way up the importance of the situation against what is facing you. Running at a 185lb cornerback on 4th on 1 and very low odds of injury vs the importance of the down.

That play changed the game and we went from a chance to score 6 to giving 6 away.

 

[602 Native]

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[602 Native]

If he's getting hurt running into 185lb CB's then he should hang up his cleats. Done got steamrolled from behind last week by a 240lb linebacker and popped right back up.

This should never be what you want your QB to do ever. Add on top of it K1 is not a big QB and people need to come to grips with that.

This is your dream of what a QB should do not reality in todays NFL.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Just for your edification... I was at those playoff games too.... But you would know that because we saw each other there

Of course we did someone had to push you around in your wheelchair...

 

[BirdGangThing]

the killer kyler would've turned around instead of throwing that interception - it could've bought time or provided another rushing lane - but he flinched - and he rushed it

thing is kyler murray doesn't throw many interceptions - and while that particular one was particularly bad and at the worst time - it's still not a huge deal to me

we went 4-0 and had a let down after a bye in someone else's house - ish happens - and while i don't blame petzing for kyler's performance i do think he also sucked yesterday

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Agreed on the flip of the boot.

The Chickens had a great defensive scheme for us. Pressure the middle of the line, contain MHJ, stop the run. It worked to perfection for them.

We get them again so we will see how they switch things up and how we respond.

Now that the Hawks exposed our weaknesses other DCs will watch film and try to attack us the same way

The entire coaching staff needs to make adjustments to overcome this

 

[BritCard]

This should never be what you want your QB to do ever. Add on top of it K1 is not a big QB and people need to come to grips with that.

This is your dream of what a QB should do not reality in todays NFL.

What? You literally see QB's do this every single game. Especially in 4th and 1 situations while behind in Q3.

Do I want them doing it all the time? No. Do I want them doing it occasionally in crucial situations? Hell yes.

K1 is not tall, but he's 215lbs. He should be able to run into a 190lb cornerback and get a yard without hurting himself.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Now that the Hawks exposed our weaknesses other DCs will watch film and try to attack us the same way

The entire coaching staff needs to make adjustments to overcome this

that's exactly what's going to happen - we need to get back to basics - basic assignments and basic math - how many guys are lining up on kyler's blindside? how many people do we have designated to block on this play? is the running back chipping or not? why don't we have a safe or alert word for that side of the line? if we're running 3 tight enddds why can't we just add an extra lineman and go 2 tight ends? we could even declare him eligible lol

the seahawks knew when we were snapping the ball due to fro's ridiculously repetitive look back then snap - the seahawks also knew when we were running the ball - blitzing the middle and leaving the edges there to contain the edge

idk wtf happened yesterday - they had no fear with the pressure because it always got there - it was insane

 

[Shane]

I have one thing to say about Kyler today:

TIGHTEN YOUR ******* HELMET PLEASE!!!

That is all! Oh and heal up from whatever rib injury you got during that play your helmet just fell off again.

 

[ajcardfan]

What? You literally see QB's do this every single game. Especially in 4th and 1 situations while behind in Q3.

Do I want them doing it all the time? No. Do I want them doing it occasionally in crucial situations? Hell yes.

K1 is not tall, but he's 215lbs. He should be able to run into a 190lb cornerback and get a yard without hurting himself.

Watch the play again. He is 5 yards behind the LOS when he throws the ball, Witherspoon is right there. The reason he throws it is #48 comes off of Wilson who heads upfield and then cuts across, probably because he wants to get in his line of sight. However, Kyler throws it upfield and not out. Since #48 is off Wilson he is now defending the run and is right at the line to gain, directly in front of Kyler. So, even if Kyler blows up Witherspoon #48 is right there still in perfect position to tackle him short of the line.

Kyler shouldn't have thrown the ball, period. His bad, his mistake. But, he wasn't going to bowl over two defenders to get the first down either. He was 5 yards away, had no chance because Seattle knew the play was coming and defended it perfectly.

 

[Stout]

So you would prefer him to be more like Tua? The first time he lowers his shoulder & gets seriously hurt on a play you'll be asking why didn't he slide sooner.

Absolutely not. As @DVontel noted, I criticized him doing so in the past. He absolutely needs to be able to do it in crunch situations, though. Sliding short on a key 4th down (in the past) was unacceptable. The idiotic throw yesterday was unacceptable. If he lowers his shoulder yesterday and gets hurt trying to get the 1st down, sure, it would be a bad result, but I wouldn't want him to slide there. You can't slide in that situation.

 

[Stout]

My list of blame yesterday.

1. Oline
2. Petzing
3. Murray
4. Conner

The oline had its worst day ever and Petzing didn’t adjust.

K1 threw a terrible pass for a pick and missed McBride again in the end zone. He was pressured all day which ties back to the oline.

JC was non existent when our run game is supposed to be our bread and butter ( you can tie this again directly to the oline).

I was about to argue with this list, but I think #1-3 are interchangeable. I lay more blame on KM for scoring for the other team, but the other two were also putrid.

 

[Stout]

This should never be what you want your QB to do ever. Add on top of it K1 is not a big QB and people need to come to grips with that.

This is your dream of what a QB should do not reality in todays NFL.

So he should never try to take on a CB to gain a 1st or to score? Remember that if he similarly pulls out and loses a playoff game because of it. Or because we fail to clinch because of it. Your tune will change there.

ANY QB on that play needs to be trying their all to get the first, not panicking and avoiding contact.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Watch the play again. He is 5 yards behind the LOS when he throws the ball, Witherspoon is right there. The reason he throws it is #48 comes off of Wilson who heads upfield and then cuts across, probably because he wants to get in his line of sight. However, Kyler throws it upfield and not out. Since #48 is off Wilson he is now defending the run and is right at the line to gain, directly in front of Kyler. So, even if Kyler blows up Witherspoon #48 is right there still in perfect position to tackle him short of the line.

Kyler shouldn't have thrown the ball, period. His bad, his mistake. But, he wasn't going to bowl over two defenders to get the first down either. He was 5 yards away, had no chance because Seattle knew the play was coming and defended it perfectly.

Only thing I'll add is that in this universe, Kyler is never going to "blow up" Spoon... Bottom line is that although Kyler is a strong 215lbs, his mentality is to find ways to lessen the impact, not to blow up a defender.
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this play a 4th & 1? I think it was... which makes this pick-6 much more of a screw-up on the coaching than on Kyler (though Kyler's decision to throw the ball and then throw it 6 feet over Wilson's head, was simply amateurish). 4th & 1 and you call THAT play? Seriously??

 

[ajcardfan]

Only thing I'll add is that in this universe, Kyler is never going to "blow up" Spoon... Bottom line is that although Kyler is a strong 215lbs, his mentality is to find ways to lessen the impact, not to blow up a defender.
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this play a 4th & 1? I think it was... which makes this pick-6 much more of a screw-up on the coaching than on Kyler (though Kyler's decision to throw the ball and then throw it 6 feet over Wilson's head, was simply amateurish). 4th & 1 and you call THAT play? Seriously??

Totally agree.

4th and 1 has been bad for us all season. Against Washington, we couldn't convert it twice on passes. The Lions snuffed out Murray on the same play as yesterday. There was the game when the "Tune push" didn't get it 2 plays in a row. We've converted it a couple of times with a Conner run and a Murray run (against the Dolphins), but it is a real problem down and distance so far this year. We have got to figure it out. Petzing seems either afraid to run Conner because of the line or he thinks that is so obvious his pass calls and Kyler runs are going to trick the defense.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Totally agree.

4th and 1 has been bad for us all season. Against Washington, we couldn't convert it twice on passes. The Lions snuffed out Murray on the same play as yesterday. There was the game when the "Tune push" didn't get it 2 plays in a row. We've converted it a couple of times with a Conner run and a Murray run (against the Dolphins), but it is a real problem down and distance so far this year. We have got to figure it out. Petzing seems either afraid to run Conner because of the line or he thinks that is so obvious his pass calls and Kyler runs are going to trick the defense.

I honestly believe it has a lot to do with the amount of time Kyler still spends away from under center. When he's back in the gun, it keeps Conner, or any back, that much further from the line giving the defensive more time to commit to the run. Yea, I guess Kyler can attempt to tuck it and bootleg it... but that hasn't worked either.
If he were under center more often (and yes, I know his % of being under center has increased this year - which is a large reason he's been more effective and the team has won more), I think it would give the line more opportunities to run-block when in that formation, more comfort and confidence, so that on 3rd and 4th & short, they have a shot at being more effective and the offense isn't relegated to attempting some goofy-ass play-call.

 

[ajcardfan]

I honestly believe it has a lot to do with the amount of time Kyler still spends away from under center. When he's back in the gun, it keeps Conner, or any back, that much further from the line giving the defensive more time to commit to the run. Yea, I guess Kyler can attempt to tuck it and bootleg it... but that hasn't worked either.
If he were under center more often (and yes, I know his % of being under center has increased this year - which is a large reason he's been more effective and the team has won more), I think it would give the line more opportunities to run-block when in that formation, more comfort and confidence, so that on 3rd and 4th & short, they have a shot at being more effective and the offense isn't relegated to attempting some goofy-ass play-call.

And another thing that makes it too easy for the defense is that if Kyler is in, they know QB sneak is not going to be the call. If Tune is in, it's a QB sneak. I think if we can run a couple of sneaks with Kyler and convert them it will keep defenses more honest on 4th and 1.

 

[602 Native]

Now that the Hawks exposed our weaknesses other DCs will watch film and try to attack us the same way

The entire coaching staff needs to make adjustments to overcome this

Well that’s what Petzing is for. Dude better come up with a better scheme.

My biggest fear is what you said.

 

[Stout]

And another thing that makes it too easy for the defense is that if Kyler is in, they know QB sneak is not going to be the call. If Tune is in, it's a QB sneak. I think if we can run a couple of sneaks with Kyler and convert them it will keep defenses more honest on 4th and 1.

Yes, that is a big problem we have. Why on earth Kyler, with his lower body strength and elusiveness can't wiggle through a space for a QB sneak is absolutely beyond me.

 

[PDXChris]

OMG! "CAN I KISS YOU KYLER?!

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[GeorgiaCard88]

You want to blame the oline? Sure that’s a fair and reasonable argument but the Kyler apologist blaming petzig for this game is laughable to me.

Did petzig design plays that had his offensive line letting Conner get stuffed more than a thanksgiving turkey?

Did petzig design a play that had Murray hop to the edge like a little leprechaun and throw his pot of gold to a defensive player?

Did petzig tell McBride to take a knee 6 inches from the sticks on 3rd down?

Petzig must have been the one that spooked his offense into making so many game killing false starts

Don’t know what game yall were watching but I saw a completely ineffective run game that was getting dominated by their dline (making it a rough situation for Connor) and a very poorly executed passing game riddled with poor decisions and killer penalties

 

[ajcardfan]

You want to blame the oline? Sure that’s a fair and reasonable argument but the Kyler apologist blaming petzig for this game is laughable to me.

Did petzig design plays that had his offensive line letting Conner get stuffed more than a thanksgiving turkey?

Did petzig design a play that had Murray hop to the edge like a little leprechaun and throw his pot of gold to a defensive player?

Did petzig tell McBride to take a knee 6 inches from the sticks on 3rd down?

Petzig must have been the one that spooked his offense into making so many game killing false starts

Don’t know what game yall were watching but I saw a completely ineffective run game that was getting dominated by their dline (making it a rough situation for Connor) and a very poorly executed passing game riddled with poor decisions and killer penalties

"Petzing". "Conner".

Continue on.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

You want to blame the oline? Sure that’s a fair and reasonable argument but the Kyler apologist blaming petzig for this game is laughable to me.

Did petzig design plays that had his offensive line letting Conner get stuffed more than a thanksgiving turkey?

Did petzig design a play that had Murray hop to the edge like a little leprechaun and throw his pot of gold to a defensive player?

Did petzig tell McBride to take a knee 6 inches from the sticks on 3rd down?

Petzig must have been the one that spooked his offense into making so many game killing false starts

Don’t know what game yall were watching but I saw a completely ineffective run game that was getting dominated by their dline (making it a rough situation for Connor) and a very poorly executed passing game riddled with poor decisions and killer penalties

I said something similar in another thread that it's hard to evaluate DP for this one because the players, especially the oline, were just not executing yesterday.

Maybe moving the pocket more or more rollouts with all the pressure? And a couple of guys here have suggested there should have been more screens. And there were not many designed QB runs either...

But still, I think the oline didn't give DP/Conner/Murray much of a chance, and then SEA finally got K1 to make a mistake. And a costly one.

 

[DVontel]

You want to blame the oline? Sure that’s a fair and reasonable argument but the Kyler apologist blaming petzig for this game is laughable to me.

Did petzig design plays that had his offensive line letting Conner get stuffed more than a thanksgiving turkey?

Did petzig design a play that had Murray hop to the edge like a little leprechaun and throw his pot of gold to a defensive player?

Did petzig tell McBride to take a knee 6 inches from the sticks on 3rd down?

Petzig must have been the one that spooked his offense into making so many game killing false starts

Don’t know what game yall were watching but I saw a completely ineffective run game that was getting dominated by their dline (making it a rough situation for Connor) and a very poorly executed passing game riddled with poor decisions and killer penalties

Petzing was there to be a cheerleader or something?