Enjoy Ray Horton's encore in Arizona. It might be his last.
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Thats a very good article. Hopefully Horton will stay around awhile but I doubt it.
RugbyMuffin
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Fire Whiz, Hire Horton.
:runs4life:
:runs4life:
Best quote of the article, on whether he's surprised:
"No, never," Horton said. "(The defense) is proven. It's like taxes and death. You know it's going to work. So there's no hesitation that way. The frustrating part was getting them to understand it."
"No, never," Horton said. "(The defense) is proven. It's like taxes and death. You know it's going to work. So there's no hesitation that way. The frustrating part was getting them to understand it."
Wish I could say that I had confidence that, if horton leaves, the FO will fine a suitable replacement.
But while we've done better with our coaching staff over the last several years (I guess you could use horton as an example of this), we still seem to be inconsistent in identifying and signing coaching talent.
Since the opening of the new stadium, a pivotal moment for the Cardinal's ownership, we've improved somewhat in several FO-related areas (e.g. retaining our key FA).
Oddly, the one that is least-related/affected by revenues, drafting, is the one that is (to me) most improved.
But I think we still seem to be behind the curve versus the FOs of the best (e.g. New England) or even the very good (e.g. New York Giants) NFL franchises.
But while we've done better with our coaching staff over the last several years (I guess you could use horton as an example of this), we still seem to be inconsistent in identifying and signing coaching talent.
Since the opening of the new stadium, a pivotal moment for the Cardinal's ownership, we've improved somewhat in several FO-related areas (e.g. retaining our key FA).
Oddly, the one that is least-related/affected by revenues, drafting, is the one that is (to me) most improved.
But I think we still seem to be behind the curve versus the FOs of the best (e.g. New England) or even the very good (e.g. New York Giants) NFL franchises.
WildBB
Yogi n da Bear
Best quote of the article, on whether he's surprised:
"No, never," Horton said. "(The defense) is proven. It's like taxes and death. You know it's going to work. So there's no hesitation that way. The frustrating part was getting them to understand it."
How long did we try to emulate the Steelers D before Horton arrived? Now he gets here and *poof* here we are. You got to draw directly from the source.
spanky1
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I think we have Horton for this year and next.....then all bets are off....the Rooney rule may come up to haunt us, but otherwise, he is still a tad "unproven" as a possible HC.
A bigger question.....is there someone on his staff that can keep his philosophy going, in the event that he gets "stolen" from us?
A bigger question.....is there someone on his staff that can keep his philosophy going, in the event that he gets "stolen" from us?
Dr. Jones
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I think we might get Butler to replace him....
Horton isn't going anywhere anytime soon. He's been here for one year. Defense not even in the top 10 and last in turnovers created. Guys who don't finish the job and continue their upward mobility don't last long in this league, they get tossed aside, and I'm sure Horton knows that. He's going to want to create a top 10 defense, one which creates turnovers and wreaks havoc on the league. Then he'll move on. Last year and even this year (assuming we're top 10) won't secure his long-term future and I'm sure he knows that.
Charles Barkley during the NBA finals this year had one of the best quotes I ever heard: he said once you become a coach you know you're going to get fired, you may as well do it your way. They all get fired, it's just a matter of when.
Horton needs to solidify his future before moving on. And I mean a nasty, mean defense for a prolonged period of time. That's the only way, after he gets fired, that he can secure a job afterward. I can't picture Whisenhunt doing anything else but coaching. I just don't picture him on the sidelines with a headset listening to some coach telling him what to do. But I can picture Horton doing that, which tells me he isn't anywhere near ready. He'll stick around a couple years.
Charles Barkley during the NBA finals this year had one of the best quotes I ever heard: he said once you become a coach you know you're going to get fired, you may as well do it your way. They all get fired, it's just a matter of when.
Horton needs to solidify his future before moving on. And I mean a nasty, mean defense for a prolonged period of time. That's the only way, after he gets fired, that he can secure a job afterward. I can't picture Whisenhunt doing anything else but coaching. I just don't picture him on the sidelines with a headset listening to some coach telling him what to do. But I can picture Horton doing that, which tells me he isn't anywhere near ready. He'll stick around a couple years.
I'm hoping Haley's failure in KC creates some skepticism when it comes to hiring our coordinators as a head coach. But I doubt it. Just gotta enjoy it while it lasts and hope it instills some confidence/discipline/knowledge in our players that they can carry over to a new DC when he goes
Arizona's Finest
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I don't know how anyone can say any of this with any certainty. All depends on the vacancy, organization, and what he does as DC here in between that opening coming up. Timing couldn't be more arbitrary. If the Cowboys job opened tomorrow you don't think he'd take it???
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The guy on staff with Pitt 'D' credentials, and may be groomed is Deshea Townsend. A little young at this point, but he seems to be Horton's protege.
Cbus cardsfan
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A couple years ago Russ Grimm was a "hot" candidate also and he's still here 
.
.artp
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If the Cardinal make the Playoffs, Horton will probably be hired elsewhere. I'll make that trade.
If they don't, Whiz may be fired and Horton named Head Coach.
If they don't, Whiz may be fired and Horton named Head Coach.
red desert
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Don't know about part two but you are correct that if Horton gets a HC job it will be a result of our Defense being a rousing success. Something I've been waiting for since 1994. Like you I'll take the trade.
stewdog1
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A couple years ago Russ Grimm was a "hot" candidate also and he's still here
You think they would replace the Rooney rule with a hog rule?
which would you prefer though? Our D has steadily improved since Horton took it over. Our O has not since Whiz took over play-calling duties. Likely more due to losing our QB than our OC, but a good coach would have had a backup plan to depending on a QB that was in the twilight of his career and letting 2 of our 1000+ yd WRs go
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Success is a fickle thing. The sharks start circling as soon as theres opportunity in the water.
Ill be the first to say I was blown away by how good this dude was. I had zero faith in him when we hired him. He wasnt even our 1st choice. He was our default choice because Pitt said we werent allowed to talk to whats-his-face. I felt we were settling on 2nd best.
I also have no doubt he will be gone next year, regardless of how well we do. The coaching pool in the NFL is a very small fraternity. On nearly every team you have a former HC now working as a coordinator of some sort, and coordinators filling their now vacant roles as HC's. And it goes around. Per the rooney rule (which is more harm than good, and is completely racist) Horton will get alot of phone calls.
Take Keim, take Grimm, but dont take Horton
Ill be the first to say I was blown away by how good this dude was. I had zero faith in him when we hired him. He wasnt even our 1st choice. He was our default choice because Pitt said we werent allowed to talk to whats-his-face. I felt we were settling on 2nd best.
I also have no doubt he will be gone next year, regardless of how well we do. The coaching pool in the NFL is a very small fraternity. On nearly every team you have a former HC now working as a coordinator of some sort, and coordinators filling their now vacant roles as HC's. And it goes around. Per the rooney rule (which is more harm than good, and is completely racist) Horton will get alot of phone calls.
Take Keim, take Grimm, but dont take Horton
This isn't to take anything away from Horton but this discussion really points out the disparity in talent between the Cardinals' defense and offense. On D we have 4 young rising stars, PP21, DWash, Sam Acho and the amazing Calais Campbell plus a solid NT in Dan Williams. We also have two pro bowl veterans in Darnell Dockett and Adrian Wilson.
On offense we have Larry Fitzgerald and ????????????? Easy to see why they've finished 26th and 24th in scoring the last two seasons. Still hard to believe the Cards finished 26th in scoring in 2010 while getting 10 returns for TDs.
On offense we have Larry Fitzgerald and ????????????? Easy to see why they've finished 26th and 24th in scoring the last two seasons. Still hard to believe the Cards finished 26th in scoring in 2010 while getting 10 returns for TDs.
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Success is a fickle thing. The sharks start circling as soon as theres opportunity in the water.
Ill be the first to say I was blown away by how good this dude was. I had zero faith in him when we hired him. He wasnt even our 1st choice. He was our default choice because Pitt said we werent allowed to talk to whats-his-face. I felt we were settling on 2nd best.
I also have no doubt he will be gone next year, regardless of how well we do. The coaching pool in the NFL is a very small fraternity. On nearly every team you have a former HC now working as a coordinator of some sort, and coordinators filling their now vacant roles as HC's. And it goes around. Per the rooney rule (which is more harm than good, and is completely racist) Horton will get alot of phone calls.
Take Keim, take Grimm, but dont take Horton
No doubt with the same faith you had when they hired him.
crisper57
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At least the NFCW seems to be set on HC's through the next couple of years, so we won't be seeing him go to a division rival.
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Individual talent is irrelevant. Look at the Eagles. They had 3 potential #1 CBs. 2 top 10 DE's. 3 top 10 O linemen. Top 3 RB. #2 deep threat behind Wallace. Now they bolstered themselves with some solid LB recruits.
And yet they went 8-8 just like us.
Its all about team. We dont have a profilic pass rusher like Jared Allen, Cameron Wake or Ware. but we still came in 3rd in total sacks last year.
Hortons system is superior to talent.
Yeah right. I'll bet our Defense would play lights out under Horton's system with talent like Fred Wakefield and Bernard Wilson at DEs and Jerry Drake at NT, Zach Walz and Johnny Rutledge and Buster Davis at LB and Tom Knight at CB.
The Eagles had a top 10 defense last season by the way.
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