ESPN Radio Trade Speculation......

[jandaman]

Marion and AK are similar players, but Marion is the superior scorer and superior rebounder. Perimeter defense its a wash, but Kirilenko is the superior shot blocker, Marion isnt a slouch of a blocker as a 6'7 swing man.


Of course Utah would be pressured to do the trade. But are the suns willing to trade a marion calibre player for anyone else beside a legit center.

And the only other way the suns will trade marion, is if he is unhappy. The suns won 62 games with Marion being part of that trio that rampaged all season long... then playoffs came, where JJ stepped it up... and Marion disappeared for 1 out of the 3 series... all of a sudden all these trade talks arise.


If anything, the suns will trade their 21st pick and Q for a veteran bench player preferrably athletic tall guy.

 

[Joe Mama]

Reggie Evans is an undersized power forward. Besides I would hate watching him flop all over over the court. He's the biggest flopper in the NBA. He was a nice player in Seattle, but I would be disappointed if the Phoenix Suns used anything more than minimal money to sign him.

Joe Mama

 

[JCSunsfan]

So next year we have to build to beat the Spurs, this year we should have built to Beat the Pistons, last year we should have built to beat the Lakers. I don't think so. The Suns would not have won 62 doing that. If the Suns change to be better vs the Spurs, they will just be a lesser version of the Spurs. Their composition makes them different than the Spurs, giving them some advantages and some disadvantages. There aren't any trades they can make that will make them as good defensively as the Spurs. And any that do would ruin their offense.

Dallas built a team to beat the Spurs, but they never got to play them, because the team they built to beat the Spurs (or Lakers) couldn't get by the Suns.

 

[elindholm]

Dallas built a team to beat the Spurs, but they never got to play them, because the team they built to beat the Spurs (or Lakers) couldn't get by the Suns.

But Dallas wouldn't have beaten the Spurs anyway. No strategy is any good if you don't execute it successfully.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Dallas built a team to beat the Spurs, but they never got to play them, because the team they built to beat the Spurs (or Lakers) couldn't get by the Suns.

But Dallas wouldn't have beaten the Spurs anyway. No strategy is any good if you don't execute it successfully.

Maybe, but the point is still made. You have to go through 3 preliminary playoff rounds to get to the finals. You have to beat several teams with varying styles.

 

[coloradosun]

Reggie Evans is an undersized power forward. Besides I would hate watching him flop all over over the court. He's the biggest flopper in the NBA. He was a nice player in Seattle, but I would be disappointed if the Phoenix Suns used anything more than minimal money to sign him.

Joe Mama

I am a University of Iowa graduate and admire Reggie Evans, but at Iowa his range was about two feet. The Suns need shooters to make the offense effective, if not the lane will be clogged for Amare and Nash.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think it would be a huge blunder to drastically change the makeup of this current team just to build something that might be a will to take San Antonio. I'm sure the Phoenix Suns will not make that mistake... at least not this year. It may not be as fun to talk about, but they will keep the current core of players and strengthen the bench, especially the frontcourt. I think we probably will see more minutes for a traditional lineup next year. I don't think the starting lineup will change. There will also be more of an emphasis on defensive execution and rebounding.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

I think it would be a huge blunder to drastically change the makeup of this current team just to build something that might be a will to take San Antonio. I'm sure the Phoenix Suns will not make that mistake... at least not this year. It may not be as fun to talk about, but they will keep the current core of players and strengthen the bench, especially the frontcourt. I think we probably will see more minutes for a traditional lineup next year. I don't think the starting lineup will change. There will also be more of an emphasis on defensive execution and rebounding.

Joe Mama

But that wouldn't leave us anything to argue about.

Seriously, I see no reason to panic. The Suns are going to be getting much better over the next couple of years because Amare is just beginning to blossom into a superstar. As he learns more basketball fundimentals, his remaining flaws will become less pronouced and his game greatly expanded.

I look for Amare to become an OK defender by next year and a much better passer. I'd look for more variety in his low post moves (Yao won't have as much success against him) and more of the offense running through his hands. He is becoming scary good and everything will change.

 

[coloradosun]

I do see Amare getting better on the defensive end. The two most memorable plays of the season were Amare blocks, the one against the Kings and his stuff of Duncan in game 4. Both won the game, I can only hope that he see his responsibility to expand his defensive skills.

 

[JPlay]

What if the rumored deal was simplified a bit?

Marion+Barbosa+21 for AK+#6+#34 works cap wise.

We trade Marion for some immediate financial relief - and long term as well. I don't know how many people remember this, but I am pretty sure AK's deal has payments deferred for 10 years or something. Same with Gasol's. We get back a similar player - do it all type - that is more defense than offense. Hopefully Amare picks up on rebounding and Joe on scoring.

We cut losses on Barbosa - and nab the #6.


It is a lot simpler than the propsed deal, and isn't as earthshattering as trading two starters - but the premise is the same. I mean we would probably get into the same contract talks in 2 seasons about Andrei's deal, but who cares? I am a fan of addressing issues when they come up, as long as you don't screw yourself in the process.

Yeah, that's a great deal for Utah. YEah right.

 

[tobiazz]

dude - what part of the "Suns need to field a team which can beat EVERYONE" did you not understand? Where did I say anything about beating one team?

I guess I have to lay this out for you--dude. If you had posted the phrase "Suns need to field a team which can beat EVERYONE" by itself, I would have agreed. However, you posted "give that man a prize!" in response to:

Why would the Suns trade Marion just to match up better with one team?

Because that one team happens to be the best in the league. If you can beat the other 28 teams but not the best, what good does that do you?

This implies you think it is more important to make a trade to improve against one team than to improve in general.

Devilalum wrote, "Why would the Suns trade Marion just to match up better with one team?" Then you agreed with Eric when he refuted that statement. That tells me you disagree with what Devilalum wrote, which would mean you think the Suns _should_ make a trade to improve against *one* team.

Then I shared my view that improving against a specific team is not a great idea because the best team one year is not necessarily the best team next year. Do you understand now?

You gave a thumbs up to Graham who mirrored my view, so I think we agree but your previous post does not support that.

As far as the defense thing goes, I agree. I don't think teams improve their defense drastically, but I do expect their defense to get a little better (perhaps just from Amare's improvement), which may be enough.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess I have to lay this out for you--dude. If you had posted the phrase "Suns need to field a team which can beat EVERYONE" by itself, I would have agreed. However, you posted "give that man a prize!" in response to:



This implies you think it is more important to make a trade to improve against one team than to improve in general.

Devilalum wrote, "Why would the Suns trade Marion just to match up better with one team?" Then you agreed with Eric when he refuted that statement. That tells me you disagree with what Devilalum wrote, which would mean you think the Suns _should_ make a trade to improve against *one* team.

Then I shared my view that improving against a specific team is not a great idea because the best team one year is not necessarily the best team next year. Do you understand now?

You gave a thumbs up to Graham who mirrored my view, so I think we agree but your previous post does not support that.

As far as the defense thing goes, I agree. I don't think teams improve their defense drastically, but I do expect their defense to get a little better (perhaps just from Amare's improvement), which may be enough.

 

[elindholm]

I should have been clearer about what I meant. Even though the post I responded to talked about "just" matching up against one team, I don't really think of it that way. Generally, I don't believe in the whole "matchup" philsophy anyway. I think if the Spurs are usually beating the Suns these days, it's because they are better, period, not because the Suns don't match up well against them. If you're talking about just a couple of games, then you can't be sure, but once the teams have played eight games against each other in the same season then I think it's pretty clear.

All I meant was, you should measure yourself against the best. I really don't care if the Suns can go .800 or better against lottery teams. Can they beat the best? This season, the answer was no. So you look at the best team and say, "Why are they better?" That gives you some ideas on how to improve. Maybe, while you're passing the current best team, some other team will come up from the rear and become the new best. So you should keep your eye on everyone, but the main target is still the leader.

I think that if the Suns get to the point where they can beat the other best team(s) in the league, all of the other victories along the way will take care of themselves.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I should have been clearer about what I meant. Even though the post I responded to talked about "just" matching up against one team, I don't really think of it that way. Generally, I don't believe in the whole "matchup" philsophy anyway. I think if the Spurs are usually beating the Suns these days, it's because they are better, period, not because the Suns don't match up well against them. If you're talking about just a couple of games, then you can't be sure, but once the teams have played eight games against each other in the same season then I think it's pretty clear.

All I meant was, you should measure yourself against the best. I really don't care if the Suns can go .800 or better against lottery teams. Can they beat the best? This season, the answer was no. So you look at the best team and say, "Why are they better?" That gives you some ideas on how to improve. Maybe, while you're passing the current best team, some other team will come up from the rear and become the new best. So you should keep your eye on everyone, but the main target is still the leader.

I think that if the Suns get to the point where they can beat the other best team(s) in the league, all of the other victories along the way will take care of themselves.

give that man a prize!

 

[PhxGametime]

I don't believe the Suns need to match up to just 1 team but 1 big that can rebound, would help the Suns against all 29 teams... if it helps to leap over the Spurs and there's bound to be some teams that improve, then ME likey.

One more skillball player could help too but if there's a decent big in Draft, then I'm sure - that's the direction team will go. If not, another skillball player than can help the bench out...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess I have to lay this out for you--dude. If you had posted the phrase "Suns need to field a team which can beat EVERYONE" by itself, I would have agreed. However, you posted "give that man a prize!" in response to:



This implies you think it is more important to make a trade to improve against one team than to improve in general.

actually - what it implies is that you think I think elindholm is an idiot and wasn't saying that we need to beat EVERYONE (you know - like I said in my post and like Eric had to completely spell out because some people apparently need that done for them). I know E's posts here enough to read between the lines and realize he's not an idiot - thus, it is you who made the mistake.

But...

 

[elindholm]

Wait, you mean you don't think I'm an idiot?

My life has lost all meaning.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What if the rumored deal was simplified a bit?

Marion+Barbosa+21 for AK+#6+#34 works cap wise.

We trade Marion for some immediate financial relief - and long term as well. I don't know how many people remember this, but I am pretty sure AK's deal has payments deferred for 10 years or something. Same with Gasol's. We get back a similar player - do it all type - that is more defense than offense. Hopefully Amare picks up on rebounding and Joe on scoring.

We cut losses on Barbosa - and nab the #6.


It is a lot simpler than the propsed deal, and isn't as earthshattering as trading two starters - but the premise is the same. I mean we would probably get into the same contract talks in 2 seasons about Andrei's deal, but who cares? I am a fan of addressing issues when they come up, as long as you don't screw yourself in the process.

i'd have to seriously consider that deal. don't think we NEED to do it, but that 6th pick could look really good if it was say, one of the top pgs (like deron or felton).

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

i'd have to seriously consider that deal. don't think we NEED to do it, but that 6th pick could look really good if it was say, one of the top pgs (like deron or felton).

That is basically my feeling. Utah would have to make a couple other deals for it to make sense for them - unless they have a thing for Barbosa.

 

[devilalum]

All I meant was, you should measure yourself against the best. I really don't care if the Suns can go .800 or better against lottery teams. Can they beat the best? This season, the answer was no. So you look at the best team and say, "Why are they better?"

OK, let's measure the Suns against the Spurs.

1. The Suns won 62 regular season games the Spurs won 59.
2. The Suns have a 22 year old All Star PF that has just begun to reach his potential. The Spurs have a plateaued 29 year old All NBA First Team All Star that couldn't stop Amare to save his life. Duncan will never be able to stop Amare one on one again as long as he lives.
3. Most of the Suns just played in their first playoffs. The Spurs have almost all been there several times.
4. The Spurs were completely healthy for the Conf. Finals the Suns were missing argueably there third most important player for the first 3 games. I would like a do over with either Parker or Floppy missing the first 3 games.

"Why are they (the Spurs) better?"

One word.................... EXPERIENCE

The Suns don't need to do anything except draft at #21, add a vet with the exception and get a year older.

In the words of one of the great rock and roll legends of our time, "The future's so bright I gotta wear shades."

 

[Cody]

Does Anyone get sick just think of this? I know I sure do!

 

[elindholm]

The Suns won 62 regular season games the Spurs won 59.

This is hardly relevant. The Spurs were without their most important player (Duncan) for more games than the Suns were without theirs (Nash). And even so, the Spurs had a larger average margin of victory than the Suns. All the regular-season numbers tell us is that the two teams were close.

The Suns have a 22 year old All Star PF that has just begun to reach his potential. The Spurs have a plateaued 29 year old All NBA First Team All Star that couldn't stop Amare to save his life. Duncan will never be able to stop Amare one on one again as long as he lives.

So will Stoudemire now average 50 a game against them? He was already at 40 and it made no difference.

The Spurs were completely healthy for the Conf. Finals the Suns were missing argueably there third most important player for the first 3 games. I would like a do over with either Parker or Floppy missing the first 3 games.

With Johnson at full strength, the Suns narrowly won Game 4 and got their butts handed to them in Game 5. I think the series would have been closer with Johnson, but most likely the outcome would have been the same.

And the Spurs were not "completely healthy." Duncan's ankle problems have been well documented.

One word.................... EXPERIENCE

As someone else pointed out, only four players on the current Spurs team were also on the 2003 squad. So they weren't exactly drowning in experience either. Yes, they had Duncan and Ginobili, both experienced big-game players, but those two aren't going anywhere. The Spurs will continue to hold an experience advantage, for whatever it's worth.

"The future's so bright I gotta wear shades."

I hope you're right, of course. But it's pretty easy to find examples of teams with stellar futures that didn't pan out. Heck, look at the Timberwolves this year. Just having the "potential" to be a great team isn't the same as being one.

 

[elindholm]

Does Anyone get sick just think of this? I know I sure do!

Thanks for the contribution. I can see you really make each post count.

 

[lancelet's cousin]

OK, let's measure the Suns against the Spurs.

1. The Suns won 62 regular season games the Spurs won 59.
2. The Suns have a 22 year old All Star PF that has just begun to reach his potential. The Spurs have a plateaued 29 year old All NBA First Team All Star that couldn't stop Amare to save his life. Duncan will never be able to stop Amare one on one again as long as he lives.
3. Most of the Suns just played in their first playoffs. The Spurs have almost all been there several times.
4. The Spurs were completely healthy for the Conf. Finals the Suns were missing argueably there third most important player for the first 3 games. I would like a do over with either Parker or Floppy missing the first 3 games.

"Why are they (the Spurs) better?"

One word.................... EXPERIENCE

The Suns don't need to do anything except draft at #21, add a vet with the exception and get a year older.

In the words of one of the great rock and roll legends of our time, "The future's so bright I gotta wear shades."

Oh, so true. So true. Great post.
Everyone in the, "we must make x trade to beat the Spurs" camp should think about this. Stop thinking about how we can't stop Duncan and start thinking about the fact that they can't stop us, either.

We had the most amazing one-year rebuilding turnaround I've ever seen. No tinkering with the starting Five, please-for God's sake-no tinkering. Just the draft and journeyman FA's.

 

[cepstrum]

The Spurs were completely healthy for the Conf. Finals the Suns were missing argueably there third most important player for the first 3 games. I would like a do over with either Parker or Floppy missing the first 3 games.

With Johnson at full strength, the Suns narrowly won Game 4 and got their butts handed to them in Game 5. I think the series would have been closer with Johnson, but most likely the outcome would have been the same.

And the Spurs were not "completely healthy." Duncan's ankle problems have been well documented.

Anytime a player is out for a long period of time there is an adjustment period. This series certainly wouldve been different had JJ not gotten injured. Im not saying that the suns wouldve won, but i think it would have gone to 6 or 7.

One word.................... EXPERIENCE

As someone else pointed out, only four players on the current Spurs team were also on the 2003 squad. So they weren't exactly drowning in experience either. Yes, they had Duncan and Ginobili, both experienced big-game players, but those two aren't going anywhere. The Spurs will continue to hold an experience advantage, for whatever it's worth.

Yes but thats four of their core players that won the finals with them. In addition, their other players have a lot of playoff experience. These things to matter. I dont think that you can completely ignore this fact since experience does matter. Sure the spurs will always have played more playoff games but most of the suns had hardly any playoff experience and probably learned from this postseason.

The point is we dont need to do anything drastic right now (unless AK is on the table at which point I am willing to throw marion at the jazz)