For the record (submit your stance)

[john h]

Can I have people state here what their stance is on DG and the direction they see him taking the team.

I am getting confused as some keep jumping back and forth.

I will state that I will give him the benefit of the doubt based on his past success and so far based on the intensity and competiveness that the team has shown so far. Of course moral victories are never accepted, but there has to be room to accept the positives and criticize the negative.

I do not agree with all of DG's moves, but none of them have been "mind blowers"


I see the team headed in the right direction.

DG has not been here long enough for me to form an firm opinion. I definitely think he made a serious mistake in relasing our starting center and thought he never should have announced McCown and Smith the starters before we even had a training camp. His prediction of winning 10 games was over the top. I do not know what his plan is or even if he has one long term. I do not know just how much input he has into draft selections and free agent signings. I surely will give him a year to see what he has in mind and probably two years so I can see what FA we sign next year and how we draft. His early moves have been very unimpressive. All I seem to gleam at this point it is his way or the highway. That may work and it may not work. It would work better if you had a good team that players wanted to play for..

 

[john h]

Nice post.

Something that is oft-overlooked as well is the fact that some of Greens former white players have countered that he is the racist and that he shows special treatment to black players.

I dont buy into it one bit (we all have favorites thats life-forget race) but I am not sure why it is never mentioned when the 'Race' card is thrown out??

I think will play the guy he thinks will help him win regardless of color. He is playing McCown when there is a black QB on the bench who I think could do a better job at this point in their carreers. A team would surely be in deep trouble if the players thought a coach was playing racial favorites. I do not think any NFL coach could be that dumb even if he had racial problems. I live in Arkansas where we are still in the middle of lawsuits with Nolan Richardson. Nolan was so popular he could have had streets named after him but in the end he played the race card calling fans red necks. Coaches and players can have race problems. Most we do not know about except when one like the Nolan problem boils over into the courts. He asked to be fired and was accomodated. He then received millions of dollars and continues to receive around $500,000 a year. None of this from his lawsuits but from the University and the Razorback Foundation. He lost his lawsuit but now has appealed. He continues to live in Fayetteville where he has a large farm. What a shame! He brought us a national championship and runnerup the following year but then race raises it's ugly head.

 

[john h]

Here's my take:

The Cardinals aren't that far from winning right now. The defense is undermanned, yet playing with agression and making plays, enough to keep a decent offense in a game. The special teams look good. The offense is also undermanned, but missing a few pieces.

Nate Poole should move into the 3 WR rotation and Johnson should be moved to number 4. LJ Shelton should play somewhere on the line, hopefully right tackle would work out well. Shaun King needs to be the starter.

Make those 3 changes and get Boldin back by mid November and the Cards can be 8-8 this year. Dennis Green can do that with the present talent.

I much agree King should be the starter. McCown needs to work into this position gradually if he can make it at all. With guys like Manning and Big Ben not starting at the begining of the year there is a reason for not starting a rookie in most cases. Big Ben was forced in because of an injury last week. I just hope Green is starting McCown because of his perceived ability and not because he pronounced him as the starter this summer. Basically all he has done is to throw that winning TD against the Vikings last year. Hardly enough to pronounce you the QB of the future. We need a couple of wins to keep this teams spirits up and not go into a complete funk. I think King can read defenses and has won in the NFL and at this point gives us a better chance of winning. Yes he is not the QB of the future but we need a win now. If McCown has another bad game this week I look for Green to start one of the other QB's the following week.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think will play the guy he thinks will help him win regardless of color. He is playing McCown when there is a black QB on the bench who I think could do a better job at this point in their carreers. A team would surely be in deep trouble if the players thought a coach was playing racial favorites. I do not think any NFL coach could be that dumb even if he had racial problems. I live in Arkansas where we are still in the middle of lawsuits with Nolan Richardson. Nolan was so popular he could have had streets named after him but in the end he played the race card calling fans red necks. Coaches and players can have race problems. Most we do not know about except when one like the Nolan problem boils over into the courts. He asked to be fired and was accomodated. He then received millions of dollars and continues to receive around $500,000 a year. None of this from his lawsuits but from the University and the Razorback Foundation. He lost his lawsuit but now has appealed. He continues to live in Fayetteville where he has a large farm. What a shame! He brought us a national championship and runnerup the following year but then race raises it's ugly head.

I don't know if DG has ever been accused of racism towards players, the accusations I have seen related to his coaching staff. and you could argue that Green is merely trying to UNDO what's always been done in good old white boys NFL coaching fraternity. Green has been accused of actively seeking black assistants, instead of just assistants. He's hired several out of the NFL's minority coaches program.

But frankly I not only have no issue with that, I applaud it, that's the ENTIRE point of the program, to help those coaches with contacts and opportunities that traditionally they have not gotten access to.

EVery year teams hire assistants on reputation or word of mouth and many of them are terrible, absolutely nothing wrong with giving a guy a chance.

There's no point having the program if teams aren't going to use it.

 

[john h]

This team was so bad that he has to break it down before he can build it up. I bet if he had his way, DG would fire everyone and take a three year hiatus from playing any games and start building from scratch for the 2007/2008 season.

I am pleased so far. We have had two games and we have not been blown out. I only expect us to win 4 games this year (0 on the road and 4 at home). So, I am not surprised as of yet.

To win 4 games this team will have to improve its play considerable. Just how much improvement can Josh make in the next 4 weeks? Not much in my opinion. I continue to pound the idea you cannot establish a pass and I do not care who your receivers are unless you can run the ball. The defense just continues to load up on pass defense. Smith is well past his great running days, we have no break away threat, and our backup runners are just that-backups on any team. We will struggle to win 2 games and should have the #1 or #2 pick next year. I think some of our young lineman will develop this year and we should be much improved next year. I do not think McCown will make it and our QB of the future is not yet on this team although I do want to see our Michigan QB in action. This guy could potentially be good. So much of how good a QB is comes from his head. There are a lot of big strong armed QB's who never made it and many 6' guys like Montana who had the right stuff. I am anxious to see what happens Sunday and if we can stop Vick. The Atlanta defense is much improved so our offensive woes will continue. To win the other team will need multiple turnovers and we will need to capitalize. We will also probably need some big special teams plays to go along with this. The last I looked we were 10 point underdogs.

 

[john h]

Green left a 5-11 team that went 6-10 the next year. Tice is basically using Green's offense, but he had to totally rebuild the defense that Green ignored, Chris Hovan is the only defensive starter that Tice inherited from Green.

Now he DID draft moss and Culpepper and deserves all the credit in the world for those 2 picks, but they went 11-21 with those 2 guys before Tice and company rebuilt the defense, which still isn't that great.

Russ: one of your comments frightens me if true and that is DG is not big on defense. I do not know if he is overly offensive minded or not but you can win consisitenly with a great defense as they will keep you in games. A great offense can come and go.

 

[john h]

I don't get the control freak being an issue.Most HC's are control freaks.At least the successful ones are.Parcells doesn't evem let his assistants talk to the media.You don't think Holmgren,Shanahan,Parcells,and Gibbs have a handle on evry single aspect of their teams and want things done their way? Why is Green held to a different standard?

You can be a control freak and not fire your very good starting center to end up with a rookie starting. One needs to have better control over their emotions than that. I think even the players if they could talk would say that was really stupid. Apparently our team management did not like the way Rice acted or his behavior and we basically fired him. That was stupid also. Buddy Ryan thought Garrison Hearst would not play hurt so called him some names and sent him packing. A successful coach cannot let his ego get in the way of sound decisions.

 

[clif]

You can be a control freak and not fire your very good starting center to end up with a rookie starting. One needs to have better control over their emotions than that. I think even the players if they could talk would say that was really stupid. Apparently our team management did not like the way Rice acted or his behavior and we basically fired him. That was stupid also. Buddy Ryan thought Garrison Hearst would not play hurt so called him some names and sent him packing. A successful coach cannot let his ego get in the way of sound decisions.

here we go again... kendall was injury prone and was here for nothing more than a paycheck so he had to go.

EDIT: I digress... I know he was injury prone the paycheck thing is debatable.

 

[Russ Smith]

I much agree King should be the starter. McCown needs to work into this position gradually if he can make it at all. With guys like Manning and Big Ben not starting at the begining of the year there is a reason for not starting a rookie in most cases. Big Ben was forced in because of an injury last week. I just hope Green is starting McCown because of his perceived ability and not because he pronounced him as the starter this summer. Basically all he has done is to throw that winning TD against the Vikings last year. Hardly enough to pronounce you the QB of the future. We need a couple of wins to keep this teams spirits up and not go into a complete funk. I think King can read defenses and has won in the NFL and at this point gives us a better chance of winning. Yes he is not the QB of the future but we need a win now. If McCown has another bad game this week I look for Green to start one of the other QB's the following week.

But the argument is Manning's older brother started right away and he's turned out ok. And this IS Josh' 3rd year, if he's still too young and raw now to be able to play in games, he's not worth keeping, and frankly I think he IS worth keeping.

Eventually he needs to play, no time like the present given that Green chose him as the starter and didn't draft a Qb early or sign a potential starter like say Kerry Collins to compete. Green's history shows, if JOsh can't cut it, he'll replace him.

 

[john h]

He hardly left the Vikings in shambles...throw us in that briar patch.

He has taken arguably the most difficult job in all of sports...Head Coach of the Arizona Cardinals. If he can get us even close to where he had the Vikings...we should all bow down and give him respect. A man with an ego yes...but I think that is what is needed at this time for success.

I do not know if you can equate a NFL team with a MLB baseball team but in the end the turn around of the Cubs begin with the hiring of Andy McPhail as GM. He then hired a new GM who hired a new Coach (Dusty Baker) and for the first time in over 50 years the Cubs will have back to back winning seasons. They actually had a long range plan which included drafting pitching pitching pitching. They come up with guys like Prior,Wood,Zambrano and add some FA's to this. Their farm system is loaded with pitchers which allows them to trade for guys like Nomar, Rameriz,etc. Baker is no control freak and is really liked by all his players. It took some years to put this organization together and so it will be with the Cards. Do we have guys who are smart enough to recognize talent when signing FA's and drafting? I do not know. Good teams are put together in the board room or front office. We as fans look at the players on the field.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ: one of your comments frightens me if true and that is DG is not big on defense. I do not know if he is overly offensive minded or not but you can win consisitenly with a great defense as they will keep you in games. A great offense can come and go.

That's one area it appears Green HAS learned from his past. In Minnesota because of the cap he lost a lot of talent on Defense and let it slide, he says the owner wouldn't spend, but if you look at his drafts you can see he always went for offense. Took Culpepper over Kearse, took Bennett when he had glaring needs on defense. Now he kept the offense good by doing that, Culpepper is a great player, but in the process he neglected the defense and had a few reach picks on defense that failed to pan out like Underwood.

I think the hiring of Pendergast looks terrific so far, I like the new defense. I think Pollard was a great hire, I think he's giving our DL what it needed, a kick in the butt. And so far the DB's look better under Solomon. The LB's are too beat up to really fairly evaluate. Right now the biggest improvement in this team is special teams and defense, Green's staff is doing well in both areas.

 

[Redmark]

Basically all he has done is to throw that winning TD against the Vikings last year. Hardly enough to pronounce you the QB of the future. We need a couple of wins to keep this teams spirits up and not go into a complete funk. I think King can read defenses and has won in the NFL and at this point gives us a better chance of winning. Yes he is not the QB of the future but we need a win now. If McCown has another bad game this week I look for Green to start one of the other QB's the following week.

I suppose you're just making an uncharacteristic over-simplification to support your premise. If you watched all 3 starts at end of last season which I assume coach Green did, you might appreciate his potential and why he's the starter.

That being said, I think it would have been less destructive to the young man's confidence if the coach had brought in Shaun King for a few series or to finish the game after Josh got kicked in the head a few times. He looked rattled, was holding the ball entirely too long, taking off with it when the receivers were breaking free, missing receivers, the whole nine yards.

I think Josh will continue to start the rest of the season unless he stops making progress. You can sort of excuse the poor performance in light of the sophisticated defense he was facing in only his 5th start. I also think DG will not sacrifice the development of a player he has shown so much faith in for the possibility of getting an extra win or 2 early in the season. Josh should start, but Shaun King should help when he gets in a situation that he's not prepared to handle.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I'm giving DG a free pass this year as well. I, too, haven't agreed with everything he has done, but, like him or not, I think we can all agree that SOMETHING had to be done with this team.

I see glimmers of hope here and there and, yes, it has been nice not getting blown out of the water these first two games. Free pass this year. Next year? Not so much.

And I agree with 11 that the Phoenix area needs to rally behind this team. I went out on Monday and Tuesday in the area and funny how I was the only person wearing a Cards shirt. In my area, you can't swing a bat without hitting someone in Eagles gear ... and I mean any day of the week. I still don't know how you guys can stand it, although I am waiting for 11 to go off the deep end on this.

 

[clif]

I'm giving DG a free pass this year as well. I, too, haven't agreed with everything he has done, but, like him or not, I think we can all agree that SOMETHING had to be done with this team.

I see glimmers of hope here and there and, yes, it has been nice not getting blown out of the water these first two games. Free pass this year. Next year? Not so much.

And I agree with 11 that the Phoenix area needs to rally behind this team. I went out on Monday and Tuesday in the area and funny how I was the only person wearing a Cards shirt. In my area, you can't swing a bat without hitting someone in Eagles gear ... and I mean any day of the week. I still don't know how you guys can stand it, although I am waiting for 11 to go off the deep end on this.

winning will solve this problem.. nothing more and certainly nothing less. People around here are afraid to go out on a limb and accept this team and rally behind them because it is easier to cheer for a winning team. I am very confident that once this team is in the playoffs people will "come out of the closet"

 

[Jersey Girl]

winning will solve this problem.. nothing more and certainly nothing less. People around here are afraid to go out on a limb and accept this team and rally behind them because it is easier to cheer for a winning team. I am very confident that once this team is in the playoffs people will "come out of the closet"

Just like before ... and then, once things get bad, they'll go right back in.

 

[clif]

Just like before ... and then, once things get bad, they'll go right back in.

well as long as they don't get as bad as it has been, then they will hang for a little

 

[SECTION 11]

winning will solve this problem.. nothing more and certainly nothing less. People around here are afraid to go out on a limb and accept this team and rally behind them because it is easier to cheer for a winning team. I am very confident that once this team is in the playoffs people will "come out of the closet"

This is LAME!!!
They'll be out when they're winning, and gone when they're not.

All the whiners in the Valley that bitch and moan about the Cardinals without even as much as going to the friggin games don't deserve jack squat.

The attendance at the home opener was disgraceful. There's no two ways about it.

Right now I think the new stadium should hold 30,000 and ideally 29,999 people will show up and keep them off tv.

 

[bigredjane]

Excited about Green-

For once we have a REAL football coach, give him at least a year or two. This defense is much improved and full of energy! He'll fix the offense, it's the QB situation that worries me, but I wanted us to draft Big Ben!

 

[clif]

This is LAME!!!
They'll be out when they're winning, and gone when they're not.

All the whiners in the Valley that bitch and moan about the Cardinals without even as much as going to the friggin games don't deserve jack squat.

The attendance at the home opener was disgraceful. There's no two ways about it.

Right now I think the new stadium should hold 30,000 and ideally 29,999 people will show up and keep them off tv.

all come on man!!! I agree with you!!

BUT you cannot ignore the fact that the team has been losing for decades!!

They have been horrid for a long time and lets be honest...

1) there are plenty of transplants from other football cities
2) the team has not exactly endeared themselves to the valley.. they are still called the cardinals and all they did to represent that they do play in arizona is put AZ in front of their name and that didn't happen until I believe 94?!?!
3) all they have is a small state flag on their sleeve
4) the owner (good or bad) is not a very outspoken person
5) they jacked up the tickets as soon as they moved here.

Again I agree with you, but there are people that like football and are not DIEHARDS, but they count too. so you cannot just paint such a onesided picture.

 

[SECTION 11]

you cannot just paint such a onesided picture.

I am absolutely, completely, without a doubt painting a one-sided picture.
People need to stop treating Phoenix like a freaking rental. Phoenix should be the Chicago of the 21st Century, instead it's being turned into an overgrown, Applebee's-infested pile of crap. The weak support for the Cardinals is just one aspect of that, and I'm not going to go on a 50 post diatribe about my opinions on the rest of the subject but needless to say I think that there's a whole lot of things intertwined here that contribute to a gutless, socially ********, piss poor excuse for a community. The apathy runs a lot farther then half full stadiums, IMO.

Homefield is more important in football than any other sport. If you want them to win so bad, then go the freaking games and make some freaking noise. Otherwise, shut the hell up.

Needless to say, I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all.

 

[earthsci]

Applebee's-infested pile of crap.

Applebee's has a great Happy Hour!

 

[SECTION 11]

Applebee's has a great Happy Hour!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

all come on man!!! I agree with you!!

BUT you cannot ignore the fact that the team has been losing for decades!!

They have been horrid for a long time and lets be honest...

1) there are plenty of transplants from other football cities
2) the team has not exactly endeared themselves to the valley.. they are still called the cardinals and all they did to represent that they do play in arizona is put AZ in front of their name and that didn't happen until I believe 94?!?!
3) all they have is a small state flag on their sleeve
4) the owner (good or bad) is not a very outspoken person
5) they jacked up the tickets as soon as they moved here.

Again I agree with you, but there are people that like football and are not DIEHARDS, but they count too. so you cannot just paint such a onesided picture.

clif,

do you go to the games??

 

[clif]

...

Needless to say, I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all.

you dont have to buy it.. it is the truth.

it may not matter to you, but it matters to alot of others.

I am 50-50 on the subject as I see it from both sides. Remember you were the one that called my statement LAME.

Call it what you want, but people will not continually shell out money to be ridiculed by opposing fans while the team gets beat 38-0.

Me on the other hand love football and will be there because I want to be there when they turn it around.

 

[clif]

clif,

do you go to the games??

sure do... when I can afford it. I was there at the pats game and will more than likely be at the aints game.